Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[JLB]

Yes, and these are not christians under grace, they are not born again.

Eph 1:14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

Pulpit Commentary - http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-14.htm
Verse 14. - Who is the earnest of our inheritance. The gift of the Spirit is not only a seal, but an earnest, firstfruit, or installment, a pledge that the rest shall follow. The seal of the Spirit not only assures us of the full inheritance to come, but gives us a right conception of its nature. It shows us the kind of provision God makes for those whom he takes as his heritage, his peculiar people. It is an inward heaven the Spirit brings them. "The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." The full inheritance will consist in a heart in full sympathy with God, and in those occupations and joys, intellectual and moral, which are most congenial to such a heart.

Not Christians?

Again, you have denied what the clear wording of scripture states.

... do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30 - Is it the world, that Paul commands not to grieve the Holy Spirit, by which you were sealed?

1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Ephesians 5:1-5



Is it to the world that Paul commands - be imitators of God, as dear children?

Is it to the world that Paul says - walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God.


You have lost all credibility with me, brother.

You have gone to far, in my opinion, in distorting what the scripture clearly and plainly teach.


...walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

All I am discussing is the term inherit the kingdom.

It's the phrase Jesus used to grant access to those who were before Him on Judgement Day.

And Paul used it differently in 1 Cor 6, Eph 5 and Gal 5.

Not discussing what you think the seal means, or God's guarantee means, just the phrase that is used by Jesus Christ on Judgement Day.

However, discussing what the seal means is extremely important in this discussion, since it does clearly indicate God's guarantee. In fact, it is integral to the discussion and arriving at the truth of the matter.

The Apostle Paul uses this phrase in the same way as Jesus, as His words are the foundation of truth for our lives.

What evidence is there for this claim?

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Problem. The list of things that result in loss of inheritance are sins. How many sins did Christ die for?

 

[FreeGrace]

Not all those who call themselves Christians will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Correct. Matt 7:21-23

What they lacked was faith in Christ. They recognized Him as Lord, and even worked for Him, but it was all just works, no faith.

 

[FreeGrace]

All Christians will ENTER the kingdom, not all will INHERIT the Kingdom.

This is critically important to discern. All the children of God are heirs of God. That means all will enter the kingdom. But inheriting the kingdom requires more than faith. Rom 8:17b says we must suffer with Him in order to be a co-heir with Christ, who is King in His kingdom, and 2 Tim 2:12 says we must endure in order to reign with Him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So God might not give you enough power and it is His fault?

No. I may choose to not walk in the power God has provided.

 

[FreeGrace]

There is only one kingdom, either you inherit it or not. We're only believing once here…

Think of inheritance in this way, since an inheritance indicates ownership. Consider the difference between owning the home you are living in, or renting the home you are living in. Not that any believer will pay "rent" in the kingdom, but I'm speaking of the status between ownership and that of renter. Big difference. The owner is in charge, while the renter isn't.

 

[FreeGrace]

You can only lose it one time.

Why aren't there any verses that plainly say that?

 

[FreeGrace]

True. There is no difference between entering the kingdom of heaven and reigning in the kingdom of heaven. As soon as a person was born again they joined Christ and his royal family.

This speaks of the child of God being an heir of God, per Rom 8:17a.

The difference assumed is in the scribal translations of the texts into Greek. Reigning and entering seeming to be two different things when they're not.

No, the difference is found in clear texts that differentiate between believers who will be rewarded and those who will not be rewarded.

John said this: Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward
2 Jn 8

Paul said this: If any man’s work abide which he hath built there upon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Cor 3:14-15

Please take note of the conditional clauses:

IF any man's work abides, he will receive a reward. But,,,
IF any man's work shall be burned, he will suffer loss (of that reward)

However, the "but" clearly shows that though such a believer loses reward, he himself will be SAVED.

No question about it. And this surely isn't complicated.

 

[FreeGrace]

We know this. This is not in debate. The argument is, if you stop believing you lose what your believing secured/secures for you.

Why are there no verses that say this? There is nothing in the Bible that says anything close to this? In fact, the opposite it true. Those who have believed are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).

 

[FreeGrace]

Is it God or YOU that loses your salvation? Do you have confidence in your flesh that you will not lose your salvation?

Romans 7:23-24 NASB~~ 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Gregg and I have asked this question countless times. If salvation is from God and we can lose it, then God fails. Our flesh always fails, it has to be God that fails if we can lose salvation.

If Paul wasn't truly set free, He KNOWS that His flesh would fail him.

Which is why Paul wrote this: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2:13

And Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be in us forever. Connecting the dots is not complicated.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Correct. Matt 7:21-23

What they lacked was faith in Christ. They recognized Him as Lord, and even worked for Him, but it was all just works, no faith.

If and when that is true, as it was for the group of people Christ speaks of in this passage.

 

[FreeGrace]

These Christian believers were warned before and now are being warned again by Paul.


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-20

Paul teaches us, in his letter to the Galatians, that to avoid fulfilling, or carrying out the intention, of the lusts of the flesh, that we must walk in the Spirit.


Practicing the works of the flesh will cause you to not inherit the kingdom of God.

Correct. Those believers will not be "co-heirs with Christ" (Rom 8:17b) nor will "reign with Christ" (2 Tim 2:12b).

If this passage was speaking of loss of salvation, or not entering heaven, then Christ did NOT die for all sin. Is that your position?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why are there no verses that say this? There is nothing in the Bible that says anything close to this? In fact, the opposite it true. Those who have believed are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).

Why are you defining sealed as 'forever and irreversible', as if that's what the word actually means in and of itself?

 

[FreeGrace]

No. I may choose to not walk in the power God has provided.

Wouldn't that mean that you yourself are in charge of your own salvation, then? How is that Biblical?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And scripture says we only have to believe once. It says when you believed you were marked.

Let me add, you can only believe once. That's why you have to continue in that believing. There are no second chances after you fall away from Christ.

 

[FreeGrace]

If and when that is true, as it was for the group of people Christ speaks of in this passage.

I'm not sure what you are saying. The phrase "as it was for…" doesn't seem to fit. Nor does "if and when that is true".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Wouldn't that mean that you yourself are in charge of your own salvation, then? How is that Biblical?

No. I'm not in charge of it in that I would not seek it on my own, nor can I make it happen on my own even if I did seek it. This is what Paul talks about salvation being because of God's mercy not because of man's desire or effort. It's not that desire and effort are not required to be saved. It's that they do not save you, God's grace does. The desire and effort of believing only get you to that which does saves.

 

[FreeGrace]

Why are you defining sealed as 'forever and irreversible', as if that's what the word actually means in and of itself?

For one very good reason. That's how Scripture defines it. First, there are no verses that tell us that this seal can be broken. If it could be, as your position demands, then where are the verses that support that idea?

Second, Rom 11:29 is very clear: God's gifts are irrevocable. And eternal life is a gift (Rom 6:23).

how do you respond to these verses?

 

[FreeGrace]

Let me add, you can only believe once. That's why you have to continue in that believing. There are no second chances after you fall away from Christ.

Verse please?

 

[FreeGrace]

No. I'm not in charge of it in that I would not seek it on my own

That's not the point, as should be clear from what I said. If you can "give it back", then you certainly are in charge of it.

The only way you cannot be in charge of your salvation is if you can't change it in any way. Your view has your salvation conditioned upon your own behavior. That is not taught in Scripture.

nor can I make it happen on my own even if I did seek it.

Again, not the point.

This is what Paul talks about salvation being because of God's mercy not because of man's desire or effort.

But your view includes all that sinful behavior as reasons why one can lose their salvation. Seems you're being inconsistent here.