Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Gregg]

How do you reconcile your statement here and your belief that salvation can't lost, with this passage here?

Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
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Listen carefully to what Jesus says in that verse. He says that He "never" knew that person. Never means not at all, not ever at any time.

What He is not saying - I knew him on the very day when he first believed, then I didn't know him when he stopped believing. Then after a while I knew him again, but then now I don't know Him. This is what you force yourself to believe.

 

[Butch5]

Mat 7:21-23 Many people call Him Lord, but do not believe in Him. The will of the Father is not to know about the Person of Jesus, but to believe in Him. "And this is the will of the Father sending Me, that of all that He has given Me, I shall not lose any of it, but shall raise it up in the last day." (John 6:39).

Those given to Christ were the disciples.

 

[Kathi]

Mat 7:21-23 Many people call Him Lord, but do not believe in Him. The will of the Father is not to know about the Person of Jesus, but to believe in Him. "And this is the will of the Father sending Me, that of all that He has given Me, I shall not lose any of it, but shall raise it up in the last day." (John 6:39).

But if a person walks away from Christ were they ever saved at all?

 

[Gregg]

Can anyone who does not adhere to OSAS tell me this: After you became a Christian, have you ever lost your salvation or became 'not saved'?

 

[Gregg]

But if a person walks away from Christ were they ever saved at all?

A Christian can not walk away from Christ so as to lose his salvation. Christ always accomplishes the will of His Father, so He will not let Christians perish and He will raise us up in the last day. That is a firm guarantee from God Himself that you can rest assured of eternal life.

 

[Gregg]

Those given to Christ were the disciples.

and Jesus goes on to say,

"And this is the will of the One sending Me, that everyone seeing the Son and believing into Him should have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

 

[Gary]

Listen carefully to what Jesus says in that verse. He says that He "never" knew that person. Never means not at all, not ever at any time.

What He is not saying - I knew him on the very day when he first believed, then I didn't know him when he stopped believing. Then after a while I knew him again, but then now I don't know Him. This is what you force yourself to believe.

No, this is what you force "yourself" to believe because I personally don't believe that.
.

 

[Butch5]

and Jesus goes on to say,

"And this is the will of the One sending Me, that everyone seeing the Son and believing into Him should have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

Yes, but no one has seen Him since the ascension.

 

[Gary]

Mat 7:21-23 Many people call Him Lord, but do not believe in Him. The will of the Father is not to know about the Person of Jesus, but to believe in Him. "And this is the will of the Father sending Me, that of all that He has given Me, I shall not lose any of it, but shall raise it up in the last day." (John 6:39).

The people in that passage "did" believe in Him. Otherwise why were they doing works in His name? They fully expected entrance into the kingdom. They thought they were saved.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



Regardless of whatever type of spin one puts on that passage, bottom line is, those people believed in God. Namely Jesus.
.

 

[Gregg]

Yes, but no one has seen Him since the ascension.

"Seeing" in Jn 6:40 regards discernment, spiritual perception, careful consideration leading to his acknowledgement of the one seen.

 

[Edward]

You hit the nail square on the head.

2 Timothy 2
5 And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.

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That is what we see all throughout the OT...If this then that and so forth. The Lord does expect obedience and will not be mocked. If the OT is type and shadow of things to come then it would be reasonable to assume that, yes, we have to be obedient.

 

[Butch5]

"Seeing" in Jn 6:40 regards discernment, spiritual perception, careful consideration leading to his acknowledgement of the one seen.

It does? How's that? Besides, He said He had only come to Israel.

 

[Edward]

Personally, I remember the Holy Spirit coming into me and being changed as soon as I finished asking Christ to save me and forgive my sins. I'm not suggesting that was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but rather Christ coming into my body by the Holy Spirit in salvation putting his seal of ownership on me.

I hear about different experiences taking place when people say the sinners prayer. Some like your testimony, some different. When I was saved (said the sinners prayer and was soon thereafter baptised) I had no dramatic spiritual experience associated with it. It was only after many years and my seeking a closer relationship with our Lord that the spiritual experiences began happening to me.

Or is salvation the end of one's faith?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials,
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
8 whom having not seen1 you love2. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 receiving the end of your faith-- the salvation of your souls. (1Pe 1:3-9 NKJ)

Peter says that salvation is the end of one's faith. For some reason modern Christians seem to think it's the beginning of one's faith.

Without going and reading this entire chapter first (no time, walking out), I would think that perhaps that means, after running the race and the Lord returns. For in other places in scripture it says to overcome and hold our faith until the end etc..

I guess you could count me in the 'beginning of ones faith' crowd, even though one must first have have faith and put their trust into God before having Him revealed to us.

 

[Gary]

That is what we see all throughout the OT...If this then that and so forth. The Lord does expect obedience and will not be mocked. If the OT is type and shadow of things to come then it would be reasonable to assume that, yes, we have to be obedient.

Sadly, that part of scripture often gets overlooked or flat out ignored.
.

 

[Butch5]

I hear about different experiences taking place when people say the sinners prayer. Some like your testimony, some different. When I was saved (said the sinners prayer and was soon thereafter baptised) I had no dramatic spiritual experience associated with it. It was only after many years and my seeking a closer relationship with our Lord that the spiritual experiences began happening to me.




Without going and reading this entire chapter first (no time, walking out), I would think that perhaps that means, after running the race and the Lord returns. For in other places in scripture it says to overcome and hold our faith until the end etc..

I guess you could count me in the 'beginning of ones faith' crowd, even though one must first have have faith and put their trust into God before having Him revealed to us.

My point is that it's not a done deal when one believes as many would suggest. Ultimately, salvation is the resurrection and receiving eternal life. Until that happens one is not truly saved. Paul in Ephesians, tells us that the holy Spirit is given to the believer as a "down payment" until the redemption of the purchased possession.

 

[OzSpen]

This Hebrews statement is quite interesting.
If I'm saved, and then give up Jesus, then it's impossible for me to turn back to Jesus again and get resaved.
So once a person falls away in this manner, they are through, forever.
It just doesn't quite ring true to me.
Can you explain it better?

Allen,

I have spent a lot of time on exegeting the Greek and English text of Hebrews 6:4-6 in recent years, because the outcome of apostasy (my understanding of the text is apostasy) is very serious. There is no possibility of repentance after apostasy. See my detailed article on my homepage, Once Saved, Always Saved or Once Saved, Lost Again?

 

[OzSpen]

Allen,

Regarding apostasy, why don't you also take a read of, 'A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ', which is Lee Strobel's interview with Charles Templeton, Billy Graham's former evangelistic colleague in Youth for Christ, who became apostate? Templeton has since died. See HERE. Templeton wrote about his apostasy in Farewell to God. See a review of the book HERE.

In Christ, Oz

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Allen,

Regarding apostasy, why don't you also take a read of, 'A Skeptic Reflects upon Jesus Christ', which is Lee Strobel's interview with Charles Templeton, Billy Graham's former evangelistic colleague in Youth for Christ, who became apostate? Templeton has since died. See HERE. Templeton wrote about his apostasy in Farewell to God. See a review of the book HERE.

In Christ, Oz

Thank you for both posts.

 

[OzSpen]

My point is that it's not a done deal when one believes as many would suggest. Ultimately, salvation is the resurrection and receiving eternal life. Until that happens one is not truly saved. Paul in Ephesians, tells us that the holy Spirit is given to the believer as a "down payment" until the redemption of the purchased possession.

Butch,

Are you saying that there is no way a Christian can know this side of the resurrection at the last days that he or she has received eternal life in believing in and continuing to believe in Christ alone for salvation?

Oz

 

[Edward]

My point is that it's not a done deal when one believes as many would suggest. Ultimately, salvation is the resurrection and receiving eternal life. Until that happens one is not truly saved. Paul in Ephesians, tells us that the holy Spirit is given to the believer as a "down payment" until the redemption of the purchased possession.

I'm pretty much with you on that. There's too many scriptures that speak of enduring until the end, overcoming, keep your faith, and work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for me to easily dismiss them and say oh, I'm saved and OSAS blah blah blah. Oh it's a great thought and idea for OSAS, but that scripture that says in that day many will say Lord Lord, and I will say I never knew you. That's scary. There will be no debating with God on that day.

And those scriptures which speak of one having their name blotted out, sure there's much debate about the correct interpretation of them, but one thing stands clear about it....scary. We are instructed to pray that we are found to be worthy to be able to stand in the front of the Son of man even. I tell you, until I hear those words, well done thou good and faithful servant...I'm going to remain fearful and very hesitant to say anything like Oh, I'm saved and God wouldn't do that to me.

I'd like to think that He wouldn't, but He's GOD and will do with me what He will. Lord be with me and let no one snatch me from your hand.