Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Gary]

The key that you speak of has two sides - the one you mentioned which refers to a third party not being able to pluck out of Christs hand. The other side of your key refers to the Christian who will never perish. "They shall never perish."

I can not provide a single verse that says "a Christian can reject neither." I base that statement on the fact that a Christian can not lose his salvation, therefore he can not reject God or 'undo' his faith in Christ so as to lose his salvation.

How many different profiles do you have for this site?
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[chessman]

Faith is how we access the power of the gospel to save.

"..you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. " (1 Peter 1:5 NAS)

Power to save and protect! Access huh? Lose the fact that Peter just said God uses His power to protect us and you err.

"Protected"= 5432. φρουρέω phrŏurĕō, froo-reh´-o; from a comp. of 4253 and 3708; to be a watcher in advance, i.e. to mount guard as a sentinel (post spies at gates); fig. to hem in, protect:—keep (with a garrison).

Lose the faith through which you are protected by the power of God for salvation and you lose that protection.

Chapter/verse for one example of your hypotheses here please?

And while you're at it, explain the limits of "the power of God" that Him to lose any of His own.

John 6:39 Now this is the will of the one who sent me: that everyone whom he has given me, I would not lose any of them, but raise them up on the last day.​

 

[Gary]

I am not sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

How does someone know when they are saved?
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You mind answering this?
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[Gregg]

Faith is how we access the power of the gospel to save. It most certainly is a required requisite for having and retaining the promise and hope of the kingdom to come. Lose that faith and you lose the power of God to save:

When you say "we access" you are placing the action in your hands, but all actions necessary for our salvation have taken place and are taking place by God. What is required of man is that he believe in Christ. This is even a gift of God, that we are able to have faith in Him. It is His doing, as we are His workmanship created in Christ.

One who believes that he can lose his salvation, perhaps he also believes that Christ is not able or willing to keep him.

 

[Gregg]

You mind answering this?
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The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Rom 8:16, 1Jn 4:13).

 

[Gregg]

How many different profiles do you have for this site?
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My apologies. I am using a new computer and do not have access to prior accounts and passwords, so I created a new account. The administrators will correct things shortly.

 

[Kathi]

It would make me wonder if they were saved in the first place.

 

[jonahmano]

When you say "we access" you are placing the action in your hands, but all actions necessary for our salvation have taken place and are taking place by God. What is required of man is that he believe in Christ. This is even a gift of God, that we are able to have faith in Him. It is His doing, as we are His workmanship created in Christ.

One who believes that he can lose his salvation, perhaps he also believes that Christ is not able or willing to keep him.

1 Corinthians 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

So you mean that a pastor fallen into the adultery can't lose his salvation when he dies just because he believes in Christ and Christ is able to grant him eternal life in spite of his sinful acts?

Will give you a simple case and tell me how you draw this to conclusion

A Pastor of a church fallen into adultery with a woman of his church.
He knows that he's committing adultery but he can't come out of it because he's in it.
And he wants to come out of this and he keeps the repentance pending and the hour has come (One fine day he dies before he wanted to take the step of repentance)

Now tell me will Christ save this man just because he believed in Christ?

 

[Gary]

How does someone know when they are saved?
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The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Rom 8:16, 1Jn 4:13).

Ok. So how does one know when that takes place?
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[Dustoftheearth]

It told you you'd prolly deny it, but you may not realize that the fundamental OSAS argument removes faith as a condition for the assurance of being saved on the day of wrath because that would make salvation by works. But perhaps you want to insist that it's impossible for a believer to not believe. To which I insist that you explain why the Bible warns us to not believe once we have believed or else lose our reconciliation to God.

What is this type of 'faith' that you believe one can stop having?

It certainly is not so with true faith.

True faith makes you a witness, to what you have seen with your eyes and heard with your ears. True faith believes in the heart what he has seen and/or heard. Jesus said they receive the word and understand.

Perhaps you are thinking about those who have received cleaver and persuasive words, and given some mental agreement to.

 

[Gregg]

Ok. So how does one know when that takes place?
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I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding.

 

[veryberry]

1 Corinthians 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

So you mean that a pastor fallen into the adultery can't lose his salvation when he dies just because he believes in Christ and Christ is able to grant him eternal life in spite of his sinful acts?

Will give you a simple case and tell me how you draw this to conclusion

A Pastor of a church fallen into adultery with a woman of his church.
He knows that he's committing adultery but he can't come out of it because he's in it.
And he wants to come out of this and he keeps the repentance pending and the hour has come (One fine day he dies before he wanted to take the step of repentance)

Now tell me will Christ save this man just because he believed in Christ?

Sure he is.. We are righteous through Christ. You, me, and everyone else covet(which is idolatry) every single day. Jesus Christ paid for all sins(past, present and future). It is Jesus Christ who died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. King David commited adultery and murder(2 sins which had no sacrifice) and those sins were not imputed to him and was still a righteous man.

So that pastor, who is made righteous through Christ, is not imputed with that sin. Why? because Christ died for that sin.

 

[Gregg]

1 Corinthians 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

So you mean that a pastor fallen into the adultery can't lose his salvation when he dies just because he believes in Christ and Christ is able to grant him eternal life in spite of his sinful acts?

Will give you a simple case and tell me how you draw this to conclusion

A Pastor of a church fallen into adultery with a woman of his church.
He knows that he's committing adultery but he can't come out of it because he's in it.
And he wants to come out of this and he keeps the repentance pending and the hour has come (One fine day he dies before he wanted to take the step of repentance)

Now tell me will Christ save this man just because he believed in Christ?

If the pastor was saved, then that is the condition in which he will be found when his hour has come. He will be found clothed with Christ's righteousness and sprinkled with His blood.

I pose a question: Another pastor has a spotless life after becoming a Christian, even up until this moment where we find him next. One day He is standing on a downtown street corner when a stranger asks him for directions to an abortion clinic. Although he knows where it is, he tells the stranger that he does not know where the clinic is. The moment after he completes his answer a grand piano falls upon him from a tall building, and his life is ended. He dies not having time to repent, having just then made the conscious choice to tell a lie. Will the pastor spend eternity with Christ, or not? Please explain your reply.

 

[Gary]

I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding.

I used to shy away from hard questions too.
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[jeff77]

1 Corinthians 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

So you mean that a pastor fallen into the adultery can't lose his salvation when he dies just because he believes in Christ and Christ is able to grant him eternal life in spite of his sinful acts?

Will give you a simple case and tell me how you draw this to conclusion

A Pastor of a church fallen into adultery with a woman of his church.
He knows that he's commit adultery but he can't come out of it because he's in it.
And he wants to come out of this and he keeps the repentance pending and the hour has come (One fine day he dies before he wanted to take the step of repentance)

Now tell me will Christ save this man just because he believed in Christ?

I believe it's possible he is still saved. I don't believe our sins are measured to determine salvation. I believe that there are people that think they are saved but really are not.

 

[Gregg]

I used to shy away from hard questions too.
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I responded to your question and stated the true reason why I did not answer it; your question was off-topic. Yet, you discredited my true reason and substituted a reason of your own imagination. Is it possible that you do the same thing with the Scriptures, substituting your reasoning for God's stated truths?

 

[Gary]

I responded to your question and stated the true reason why I did not answer it; your question was off-topic. Yet, you discredited my true reason and substituted a reason of your own imagination. Is it possible that you do the same thing with the Scriptures, substituting your reasoning for God's stated truths?

I asked you a simple question. "How does someone know when they are saved?"

If you don't know just say so.
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[Kathi]

A Christian life should be a changed life.He is a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17.Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ.Those who turn away from their faith never had it to begin with 2 Timothy 2:11-13.

 

[jonahmano]

If the pastor was saved, then that is the condition in which he will be found when his hour has come. He will be found clothed with Christ's righteousness and sprinkled with His blood.

I pose a question: Another pastor has a spotless life after becoming a Christian, even up until this moment where we find him next. One day He is standing on a downtown street corner when a stranger asks him for directions to an abortion clinic. Although he knows where it is, he tells the stranger that he does not know where the clinic is. The moment after he completes his answer a grand piano falls upon him from a tall building, and his life is ended. He dies not having time to repent, having just then made the conscious choice to tell a lie. Will the pastor spend eternity with Christ, or not? Please explain your reply.

Great question but the difference between your question and my question is - the pastor which I'm talking about is committing repeated sin. He knows it's wrong, he knows he's wrong but he is involved in it, he wants to come out of it but he wants to give some time for himself but it was too late for him and this is my case. In your case it's not repeated sin, it's out of conscious. the decision in your case is taken in haste but whereas my party is continually in that sin and though he had intention to repent but he couldn't because he was in the lust and he thought there was still way ahead to get back to God.

Also if you could answer me about what does this scripture mean to you

Philippians 2:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

And also this

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

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Finally
Learnt a new doctrine from this forum 'BACKSLIDERS ARE ON THEIR WAY TO HEAVEN' ...........

 

[jonahmano]

I believe it's possible he is still saved. I don't believe our sins are measured to determine salvation. I believe that there are people that think they are saved but really are not.

So you mean to say that all backsliding believers are on their way to heaven?

So do you also believe in the doctrine of Joseph Prince --- Sinning in the light?