Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[agua.]

Salvation is a one time event entered into by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

'Departing from the living God' means withdrawing from or standing aloof from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not apostasy; but neither is it going in the right direction.

 

[jonahmano]

Salvation is a one time event entered into by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

'Departing from the living God' means withdrawing from or standing aloof from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not apostasy; but neither is it going in the right direction.

If salvation is a one time event then why do we read in the bible like this

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you agree that we have to work on our salvation which was received to us as a free gift?

 

[Gregg]

Now again please don't counter us that we are preaching that salvation is by works. Nowhere we supported that doctrine. All we said is faith without works is dead, then why don't you agree that?

You talked craftily about gold which is not a living thing. I will talk to you about Noah. By Faith Noah built an ark but by faith he didn't simply sit. He did built an ark and the people around him were saying if he's nuts and in the same way grace preachers may mock true believers by saying everything is free and you don't have to do anything but simply sit but this guy is devoting his time to the Lord.

Another excuse of grace preachers. Even reading the bible is work. My goodness. How do we know Jesus? Not through the word? If that was why would the apostles spend sleepless night to pen down the revelations of God??

And also every person who are against these grace preachers do believe that by grace we are saved through faith because if it was not that then 15 mins of googling would be enough for us to be led astray but it's the grace of God and faith in action sustains every believer to be in relationship with Christ and wait for His return

I have and do agree, faith without works is dead. Faith in action is good, necessary, expected of believers; but that faith does not sustain your salvation. The Lord sustains our salvation.

 

[agua.]

If salvation is a one time event then why do we read in the bible like this

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you agree that we have to work on our salvation which was received to us as a free gift?

Do you agree that we have to work on our salvation which was received to us as a free gift?

Paul said we need to work out our salvation implying we need to realize and walk in it ie. put into practice our calling. Where does scripture say we need to work on our salvation ?

 

[Gregg]

If salvation is a one time event then why do we read in the bible like this

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you agree that we have to work on our salvation which was received to us as a free gift?

I have a different perspective or mindset than you. We can not work on something that God initiates, sustains, and brings to completion.

But we can cultivate our faith, exercise our faith, go through trials with our eyes fixed upon Christ - all of this with God's help; but the object of our faith must remain God alone, so that we do not have faith in God and in ourselves.

 

[agua.]

I have a different perspective or mindset than you. We can not work on something that God initiates, sustains, and brings to completion.

But we can cultivate our faith, exercise our faith, go through trials with our eyes fixed upon Christ - all of this with God's help; but the object of our faith must remain God alone, so that we do not have faith in God and in ourselves.

Which is why Paul said

Php 2:12-13 KJV Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[jonahmano]

I have a different perspective or mindset than you. We can not work on something that God initiates, sustains, and brings to completion.

But we can cultivate our faith, exercise our faith, go through trials with our eyes fixed upon Christ - all of this with God's help; but the object of our faith must remain God alone, so that we do not have faith in God and in ourselves.

Yea you are right and what's my part in it? It is to be yielded to the Lord be obedient to the Word of God. That is called a faith with works. Where are we differing from you. You can't hear from a grace preacher these things............obeying his Gospel, attending constantly to his word and ordinances, and discharging every duty in faith and fear, until at last they should receive the end of their faith, the salvation of their souls

 

[jonahmano]

Which is why Paul said

Php 2:12-13 KJV Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

True but with cheerful and constant obedience to Christ, with all humility of soul, without dependence on it, or vain glorying in it, but ascribing it wholly to the grace of God

 

[Edward]

I think the salvation is a gift received in faith, by grace with no works required.
Works is then an investment of the grace (fruits of the spirit) which determine our rewards in heaven and rank.

We know there will be rank in heaven, for some will be called the least in heaven, and we are told to build up our treasures in heaven. That's what the Bema seat is all about.

 

[jonahmano]

I think the salvation is a gift received in faith, by grace with no works required.
Works is then an investment of the grace (fruits of the spirit) which determine our rewards in heaven and rank.

We know there will be rank in heaven, for some will be called the least in heaven, and we are told to build up our treasures in heaven. That's what the Bema seat is all about.

You mean that a person just have to believe in Jesus Christ and do nothing to get saved??? For example. A person must believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save him and he can carry out his own worldly activities and do nothing. You also mean that a person doesn't have to pray or read bible after accepting Jesus as his personal Savior?

 

[Edward]

You mean that a person just have to believe in Jesus Christ and do nothing to get saved??? For example. A person must believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save him and he can carry out his own worldly activities and do nothing. You also mean that a person doesn't have to pray or read bible after accepting Jesus as his personal Savior?

No, of course not. What I wrote was a seriously succinct summation. One has to believe that Jesus is the Messiah and to receive Him into their heart and life. To repent of their sins and turn to God and obey what He says. It's like getting married. When you say your vows at the ceremony, it's not the end of the participation in the marriage, it's the beginning. With an entire lifetime to follow.

If someone says the sinners prayer and goes back to their normal sinful ways...this is mocking God and God will not be mocked. This is done from the heart, for real. And when it's real, one wants to participate in the marriage. He desires to find out all that he can about the spouse and to live for her, to support her, to go out of his way for her...to die for her if necessary.

With a marriage, there love, honor, sustenance, protection, loyalty, fidelity, honesty, companionship and togetherness.

With Christianity, there's, doctrine, studying scripture, praying, commitment, fellowship, relationship, relations with others, witnessing, repentance, obeying, discipline, seeking Gods will and walking in it, living for the Spirit, Charity, walking in love, loving God with all of your heart mind and strength, and loving others as you would yourself.

 

[jonahmano]

With Christianity, there's, doctrine, studying scripture, praying, commitment, fellowship, relationship, relations with others, witnessing, repentance, obeying, discipline, seeking Gods will and walking in it, living for the Spirit, Charity, walking in love, loving God with all of your heart mind and strength, and loving others as you would yourself.

Now what about a person who doesn't have time to do all these. Example a businessman, every minute is precious to him. All he did is to believe that Jesus Christ died for him and he is saved by the Grace of God. Now can this person without doing anything for his worldly commitments still gets saved for only just believing and couldn't do anything more than that because of his busy worldly life?

 

[chessman]

My doctrine states that the end of your faith, not the beginning, nor the middle, but the end of you faith is the Salvation of your soul.
JLB

My doctrine says salvation is at the beginning, middle and end, not just the end. Why? Because i am;

convinced of this same thing, that the one who began a good work in you will finish it until the day of Christ Jesus, Philippians 1:6​

That's the difference between your 'doctrine' and my Word (Jesus).

Finish the course, kept the faith.

Amen. Why? It glorifies Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit if all that are saved finish the course (finish it until the day of Christ Jesus).

I think it is right for me to think this about all saved people, because all saved people are sharers of grace with me. Saved people have been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God. ​

I know that this will turn out to me for deliverance because of the support of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. ​

Even now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether through life or through death. ​

Because to saved people has been graciously granted on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on behalf of him,​

Not if someone sins.
Not if someone falls.

There you go again. Someone "sinning" is not the same thing as someone "losing their Salvation". Someone "falling" is not the same thing as someone becoming "un-saved". I guess you just think these words “fall” and “sin” and “disobedience” are synonyms for “unsaved”. You've thought it for so long you can’t even see the logic in the fact that the Bible NEVER uses the word “unsaved”. Que Sera, Sera You're not going to convince me that for a saved person to "fall/sin" is equivalent to their "losing salvation" unless you do so from Scripture. I know better. You even admitted yourself that you don't even know how much "sin/disobedience" it takes to become "un-saved". But you turn right around and try to say "sin/disobedience" within a Crhistian un-saves them. Can you not see how illogical that is?

You just keep on saying that Salvation is not applicable to a saved person "if someone sins" or even "if someone falls" but you cannot answer the question of how much of that "sin/disobedience" does it take. Why do you do this? It's because there is no Scripture that directly uses the word "unsaved" and you've got to therefore assume "falling from Grace" or "spewed out of God's mouth", or God's displeausre with sin in a saved person etc. are euphemisms for the word "unsaved" which NEVER appears in the Bible. But it's a perfectly grammatically acceptable word for Jesus or Paul, etc. to have used in the Greek should they have choosen to do so. They NEVER do. And they also never tell you/me just how much sin/disobedience it takes to become unsaved.

For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again,

And fall again and rise again. That's exactly my point. So much for “falling” being a synonym for “un-saved”. You might think about striking that one off your list of synonyms for “unsaved”. Or just not think about it and keep on thinking they are. I have no idea why you’d post this Proverb. It proves my point.

But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Proverbs 24:16

Okay. But the topic is about “losing Salvation after getting saved”. Discussing the pre-svaed wicked’s fate is off-topic. Saved people have been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God. You are under the obligation to show the Scripture(s) that teach us just how this glory and praise of God can be overcome. You've not do so after all these posts.

He who endures to the end will be saved.
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12,14
At the end of your life when you have been tested and approved, you will become a partaker of Christ, IF YOU hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.
JLB

Okay. I agree. I’m still looking for how that proves saved people lose their salvation though.
But thanks for the reminder. I was already aware that there are still wicked people with an evil heart of unbelief lurking around churches today (as there was in the 1st Century till now). Again, those people are off-topic, however. Saved people have had their evil hearts filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God.

 

[JLB]

Salvation is a one time event entered into by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

'Departing from the living God' means withdrawing from or standing aloof from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not apostasy; but neither is it going in the right direction.

Please use Chapter and verse.

We all know what is being taught to us in our Church.

Please show the scripture that says Salvation is a one time event, because I have shown from the scriptures phrases like -

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: John 1:12

The right to become...!

How in the world do you derive that Salvation is a one time event from the phrase "you have the right to become"...

to become tells me Salvation is a process to be worked out with fear and trembling.

The good news is, you have just exposed the current "mindset in the Church today.

The good news is, you have found out the truth, rather than come to Judgement Day, and be "surprised", like Jesus gives the example of so many that will say to Him;

Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' Matthew 25:44

... did not minister to you?

OSAS will try to say that UNBELIEVERS, the world who don't believe in Him or know Him, will be the ones saying to our Lord on Judgement Day; when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You.

Beloved these are those who are His unprofitable servants, who have become saved who are totally dumbfounded by what Jesus has just said!!!

30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' Matthew 25:30


We are encouraged to Become sons of God.

We are encouraged to become the righteousness of God.

We are not the righteousness of God when we are born again.

We have a positional righteousness that is gained by faith.

The reality is, we are to become the righteousness of in Him.

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

It's horrifying to see what the saints of God believe and are teaching.

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17-18


JLB

 

[JLB]

If only I could frame the parameters of your answers.



Do you think Jesus is referring to believers or unbelievers in Mat 25:34-40? What is your point?

I will frame it for you sir!

See above!

 

[JLB]

LOL!

 

[Edward]

Now what about a person who doesn't have time to do all these. Example a businessman, every minute is precious to him. All he did is to believe that Jesus Christ died for him and he is saved by the Grace of God. Now can this person without doing anything for his worldly commitments still gets saved for only just believing and couldn't do anything more than that because of his busy worldly life?

Well, brother...(may I ask if you are a Christian or not? it doesn't say by your avatar)
This is a hard question for me to answer. There are scriptures which say all you have to do is believe (but to what degree does GOD define belief?!) It could be construed that if one really believed that they would make time for God and take Him more seriously than anything in the world, etc..

Then there are other scriptures which say that if you are lukewarm that He will spew you out of His mouth, that many will say Lord Lord, and not be saved. This is one of those work out your own salvation with fear and trembling questions. I have no positive answer for you on this. Pray about it.

This businessman that you speak of. Maybe he will be saved, and just be not a high rank in heaven? Or he may not...This is a question to take to God Himself.

Sorta' like chessman is doing to JLB. He sounds like he's trying to get absolute answers from JLB...and JLB isn't God! Discussing spiritual matters is all fine and dandy, but these type of questions are life and death brother, to be posed to God Himself.

I used to be OSAS, and there can be made a very very good case for it, but in my experience and learning, I see things in scripture that bring serious doubt to the answer of OSAS. I have plenty of faith, but I also have plenty of fear of God.

 

[Edward]

Paul said we need to work out our salvation implying we need to realize and walk in it ie. put into practice our calling. Where does scripture say we need to work on our salvation ?

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.?(KJV)

1 Peter 1:9-11
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow./

 

[jonahmano]

Poster Jonahmano do you have any links to these Grace Preachers with some quotes to corroborate your claims ?

Yes I do have but it's against the rules of the forums to call names and post the links here. Else I would have shared few of them with you. Just do a google search with tags like sinning in the light, would you ask forgiveness to your own father?

 

[jonahmano]

Well, brother...(may I ask if you are a Christian or not? it doesn't say by your avatar)
This is a hard question for me to answer. There are scriptures which say all you have to do is believe (but to what degree does GOD define belief?!) It could be construed that if one really believed that they would make time for God and take Him more seriously than anything in the world, etc..

Then there are other scriptures which say that if you are lukewarm that He will spew you out of His mouth, that many will say Lord Lord, and not be saved. This is one of those work out your own salvation with fear and trembling questions. I have no positive answer for you on this. Pray about it.

This businessman that you speak of. Maybe he will be saved, and just be not a high rank in heaven? Or he may not...This is a question to take to God Himself.

Sorta' like chessman is doing to JLB. He sounds like he's trying to get absolute answers from JLB...and JLB isn't God! Discussing spiritual matters is all fine and dandy, but these type of questions are life and death brother, to be posed to God Himself.

I used to be OSAS, and there can be made a very very good case for it, but in my experience and learning, I see things in scripture that bring serious doubt to the answer of OSAS. I have plenty of faith, but I also have plenty of fear of God.

Nicely put up and thanks for understanding our heart. Now when you say that you're not sure of him being saved then won't you encourage him to walk in the Spirit? It is like to say Noah believed in God that flood would destroy whole mankind but but he would not obey God??? Isn't that bewildering?

Now your doubt on me if I'm a Christian or not isn't itself a question. So much of word of God I have put up in different threads the you must assume that I have a very good knowledge in Christ Jesus and now if you say I'm simply believing in Him then would I be saved?