Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[JLB]

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.?(KJV)

1 Peter 1:9-11
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow./

 

[Gregg]

If salvation is a one time event then why do we read in the bible like this

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you agree that we have to work on our salvation which was received to us as a free gift?

We are expected to cultivate what has been given to us, to be a disciple of the Lord, to mature by and through experience of fellowship with the Lord, that we may bear fruit in the Lord. But our working does not change the state of our salvation.

The Lord is deserving of "our fear and trembling". He is our God, Creator, Savior, Prophet, High Priest, King, Teacher - publicly crucified and put to open shame. We are His workmanship.

Salvation is a one-time event; that 'time' is perpetual, eternal, everlasting, forever.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OSAS has yet to explain how people sanctified by the blood of the covenant doesn't really mean people sanctified by the blood of the covenant in this passage:

29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:29 NASB)

Or, if they want to acknowledge that these people really have been sanctified by the blood of the covenant then they have to make the punishment for these sanctified people somehow not the punishment of the damned. So, they need to explain how there no longer being a sacrifice for sins doesn't really mean there is no longer a sacrifice for sins for the sanctified one who tramples the blood of Christ, and how the punishment for these sanctified people who trample on the blood is the same punishment for the enemies of God, but is somehow not the same punishment for the enemies of God:

"26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses." (Hebrews 10:26-28 NASB emphasis in original)

Unless OSAS starts addressing these straightforward, plain passages their message will mean nothing to those who honestly and without bias read their Bibles for themselves. Choosing to debate less detailed, vague passages that somehow suggest OSAS is true and isolating them from these plain passages is not going to prove OSAS to anybody.

 

[Gregg]

Yea you are right and what's my part in it? It is to be yielded to the Lord be obedient to the Word of God. That is called a faith with works. Where are we differing from you. You can't hear from a grace preacher these things............obeying his Gospel, attending constantly to his word and ordinances, and discharging every duty in faith and fear,

I agree up to this point.

until at last they should receive the end of their faith, the salvation of their souls

Here is where we differ. If someone is born again . . . the outcome is guaranteed.

After being born again, our profession of faith is proven through experience and trials; for ourselves and for those who surround us, as God already knows the outcome.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Salvation is a one-time event; that 'time' is perpetual, eternal, everlasting, forever.

Then what does it mean for the sanctified person who tramples on the blood of the covenant that "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins" (Hebrews 10:26 NASB)?


Only if you continue in your faith is the salvation you have guaranteed to be perpetual, eternal, everlasting, and forever. And if you want to argue that believers sanctified by their faith in Christ can not stop believing then explain Hebrews 10:26-30 NASB.

 

[JLB]

We are expected to cultivate what has been given to us, to be a disciple of the Lord, to mature by and through experience of fellowship with the Lord, that we may bear fruit in the Lord. But our working does not change the state of our salvation.

The Lord is deserving of "our fear and trembling". He is our God, Creator, Savior, Prophet, High Priest, King, Teacher - publicly crucified and put to open shame. We are His workmanship.

Salvation is a one-time event; that 'time' is perpetual, eternal, everlasting, forever.

Please stop wasting time post your opinion!

Please post scriptures.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: John 1:12

The right to become...!

How in the world do you derive that Salvation is a one time event from the phrase "you have the right to become"...

to become tells me Salvation is a process to be worked out with fear and trembling.

The good news is, you have just exposed the current "mindset in the Church today.

The good news is, you have found out the truth, rather than come to Judgement Day, and be "surprised", like Jesus gives the example of so many that will say to Him;


We are encouraged to Become sons of God. Where do you find a one time salvation in the right to become?

The road to Salvation starts with faith in Jesus Christ and the blood He shed on the Cross!

The end of that road is receiving the end of your faith, the Salvation of your soul!



We are encouraged to become the righteousness of God.

We are not the righteousness of God when we are born again.

We have a positional righteousness that is gained by faith.

The reality is, we are to become the righteousness of in Him.

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

It's horrifying to see what the saints of God believe and are teaching.

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17-18


JLB

 

[JLB]

Greg said -

Here is where we differ. If someone is born again . . . the outcome is guaranteed.

You better believe that is where we differ!

This statement is exactly where this discussion is centered.

Please post a scripture that says if someone is born again... the outcome is guaranteed?


JLB

 

[Gregg]

Please use Chapter and verse.

We all know what is being taught to us in our Church.

Please show the scripture that says Salvation is a one time event, because I have shown from the scriptures phrases like -

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: John 1:12

The right to become...!

How in the world do you derive that Salvation is a one time event from the phrase "you have the right to become"...

to become tells me Salvation is a process to be worked out with fear and trembling.

The good news is, you have just exposed the current "mindset in the Church today.

The good news is, you have found out the truth, rather than come to Judgement Day, and be "surprised", like Jesus gives the example of so many that will say to Him;

Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' Matthew 25:44

... did not minister to you?

OSAS will try to say that UNBELIEVERS, the world who don't believe in Him or know Him, will be the ones saying to our Lord on Judgement Day; when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You.

Beloved these are those who are His unprofitable servants, who have become saved who are totally dumbfounded by what Jesus has just said!!!

30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' Matthew 25:30


We are encouraged to Become sons of God.

We are encouraged to become the righteousness of God.

We are not the righteousness of God when we are born again.

We have a positional righteousness that is gained by faith.

The reality is, we are to become the righteousness of in Him.

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

It's horrifying to see what the saints of God believe and are teaching.

17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:17-18


JLB

Have it your way, perhaps you will attain to it - have faith partially in yourself, trust in your own abilities, hope for a possible outcome, bend a spectrum of Scriptures to fit a self-concentric doctrine.

My faith, and trust, and hope remain in the Lord Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, sitting with the Father, whose Spirit indwells as many as belong to Him.

 

[Gregg]

You better believe that is where we differ!

This statement is exactly where this discussion is centered.

Please post a scripture that says if someone is born again... the outcome is guaranteed?


JLB

So have been shown as much in many ways.

 

[JLB]

Have it your way, perhaps you will attain to it - have faith partially in yourself, trust in your own abilities, hope for a possible outcome, bend a spectrum of Scriptures to fit a self-concentric doctrine.

My faith, and trust, and hope remain in the Lord Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, sitting with the Father, whose Spirit indwells as many as belong to Him.

Brother, please post the scripture and stop "making up" things that I have not said.

If you can show me where I have said - I have faith in myself or partially in myself, I will remove it.

My faith, and trust, and hope remain in the Lord Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, sitting with the Father, whose Spirit indwells as many as belong to Him.

Explain to me how your "faith" in Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father, equates to your Salvation that you say you have already obtained because Salvation is a one time event.

If you have faith in Christ, you are in fact in the process of Salvation.

You are waiting for Salvation and hoping for Salvation.




JLB

 

[JLB]

So have been shown as much in many ways.

?

 

[JLB]

So have been shown as much in many ways.

?

 

[Gregg]

OSAS has yet to explain how people sanctified by the blood of the covenant doesn't really mean people sanctified by the blood of the covenant in this passage:

You better believe that is where we differ!

This statement is exactly where this discussion is centered.

Please post a scripture that says if someone is born again... the outcome is guaranteed?


JLB

So that you can also drag it through the street.

A tare will resemble wheat for a while, but it never was wheat to begin with.

A seed sprouting in rocky soil will not last through heat and drought; but the seed taking root in good soil, having been watered and tended by the Lord, will have its intended outcome.

 

[Gregg]

?

Pardon my typing error.

You have been shown as much in many ways here in this forum.

 

[JLB]

Pardon my typing error.

You have been shown as much in many ways here in this forum.

I havent been shown once in any way.

Please post your scripture that says, the outcome of being born again is Guaranteed.

If you don't have one, then please consider what I and Jethro have said.


JLB

 

[JLB]

So that you can also drag it through the street.

A tare will resemble wheat for a while, but it never was wheat to begin with.

A seed sprouting in rocky soil will not last through heat and drought; but the seed taking root in good soil, having been watered and tended by the Lord, will have its intended outcome.

I agree with you about a seed and a tare.

This teaching by Jesus is not about a tare and a seed.

The context are His Servants!

Please share what you believe from the scriptures.

That is the only way you will teach me about what you believe.


31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:30-34,41

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' 21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.' 23 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 24 Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:30-34,41


This is the context of Jesus stating what He did at the end of the Olivet Discourse.


JLB

 

[JLB]

So that you can also drag it through the street.

A tare will resemble wheat for a while, but it never was wheat to begin with.

A seed sprouting in rocky soil will not last through heat and drought; but the seed taking root in good soil, having been watered and tended by the Lord, will have its intended outcome.

Greg, not only can I not make it to the end without The Lord, I also need you.

I need the part that you see.

You are of the same body, we are fitly joined and supply each other...

from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

I need you. I will stir you up to give me what I need from The Lord.

I want more from you than your opinion.

I need more from you than that.

You are unique, and you see things where I am blind.

I need your best.

I try to give my best, without sugar coating the Word my " stinking opinion".

Sorry if I come across a little straight forward, I need your best, to give me the truth.

Bring forth the truth from His Word, by The Spirit within you.


In these last days, we need The Lord, and The Spirit and the angels and each other.

I personally would rather just sit back and enjoy The Lord, and ignore all the scriptures that I have presented.

I would rather just say OSAS.


Blessings to you brother.

I sense something great about what God has for you and His message through you.

JLB

 

[agua.]

Yes I do have but it's against the rules of the forums to call names and post the links here. Else I would have shared few of them with you. Just do a google search with tags like sinning in the light, would you ask forgiveness to your own father?

It's not against forum rules to post links to information to verify your claims but it's probably against the spirit of the ToS to post unsubstantiated claims that slander people or groups. What do you think ?

I'm after specific quotes/sermons where a Grace preacher teaches that reading the Bible is works based etc etc. I don't believe you but then the couild be some cooks out there who would teach this.

 

[agua.]

Here is where we differ. If someone is born again . . . the outcome is guaranteed.

After being born again, our profession of faith is proven through experience and trials; for ourselves and for those who surround us, as God already knows the outcome.

Have it your way, perhaps you will attain to it - have faith partially in yourself, trust in your own abilities, hope for a possible outcome, bend a spectrum of Scriptures to fit a self-concentric doctrine.

My faith, and trust, and hope remain in the Lord Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, sitting with the Father, whose Spirit indwells as many as belong to Him.

Sad but true. When Jesus returns there will be many people who point to their own efforts and they seem to truly believe they were saved.

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Gregg]

Greg, not only can I not make it to the end without The Lord, I also need you.

I need the part that you see.

You are of the same body, we are fitly joined and supply each other...

from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

I need you. I will stir you up to give me what I need from The Lord.

I want more from you than your opinion.

I need more from you than that.

You are unique, and you see things where I am blind.

I need your best.

I try to give my best, without sugar coating the Word my " stinking opinion".

Sorry if I come across a little straight forward, I need your best, to give me the truth.

Bring forth the truth from His Word, by The Spirit within you.


In these last days, we need The Lord, and The Spirit and the angels and each other.

I personally would rather just sit back and enjoy The Lord, and ignore all the scriptures that I have presented.

I would rather just say OSAS.


Blessings to you brother.

I sense something great about what God has for you and His message through you.

JLB

You are skilled at defining parameters from which the other party must respond. You do understand that I regard your position in this thread as personal opinion not based upon the Scriptures.