Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Jethro Bodine]

When Jesus returns there will be many people who point to their own efforts and they seem to truly believe they were saved.

Please show me in the Bible where it says trusting in Christ to the very end is a 'wonderful work' that many will have erroneously taken comfort in and as a result will be turned away by Jesus on that day.

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My faith, and trust, and hope remain in the Lord Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, sitting with the Father, whose Spirit indwells as many as belong to Him.

What if your faith, and trust, and hope don't remain in the Lord Jesus Christ? Are you still going to be saved on the Day of Judgment? The Bible says, 'no'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A tare will resemble wheat for a while, but it never was wheat to begin with.

So, "the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified" (Hebrews 10:29 NASB) doesn't really mean what it so plainly says?

It doesn't say he thought he was sanctified by the blood of Jesus, it plainly says he was sanctified by the blood of Jesus.

 

[JLB]

You are skilled at defining parameters from which the other party must respond. You do understand that I regard your position in this thread as personal opinion not based upon the Scriptures.

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' 21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.' 23 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 24 Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' 41Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:14-41

Are all the servants in this teaching the world, or are all the servants the Kings Servants.

Once you come to grips that all the servants represent the citizens of the kingdom, who were left with the responsibility of obeying what the king left for they to do, then you will see that the servants are a part of God's kingdom and the crime was being wicked and lazy, ie; unprofitable.

These servants represent the kings people, not the world.

The tares on the other hand, now that you have mentioned them, will be gathered by the angels and burned in the fires of hell.



36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field." 37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. Matthew 13:36-40


JLB

 

[jonahmano]

It's not against forum rules to post links to information to verify your claims but it's probably against the spirit of the ToS to post unsubstantiated claims that slander people or groups. What do you think ?

I'm after specific quotes/sermons where a Grace preacher teaches that reading the Bible is works based etc etc. I don't believe you but then the couild be some cooks out there who would teach this.

I have done the posting and external links before and I had to get personal with the moderator, so I don't want to repeat it again. If you can get the permission from the moderators/admin then I'm ready to link the content

 

[jonahmano]

Sad but true. When Jesus returns there will be many people who point to their own efforts and they seem to truly believe they were saved.

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I have asked this question several times and let me know if you can answer me

A businessman attends a grace preacher's prayer meeting and he receives Christ as his personal Saviour. Now the businessman has lot of business to do all the day and he doesn't have time for prayer or bible reading. Most is he will attend few prayer meetings at his will. My question is this business man sticks to this attitude till he dies. Now tell me if that businessman would get into heaven just only because he got believed in The Lord Jesus Christ but couldn't have any fellowship with the Saviour because of his worldly commitments. Please answer this question frankly to me.

 

[follower]

there's a lot of Scripture that shows that that businessman never got into heaven to start with.

the simplest may be the one about sowing seed in rocky soil, but there's many more ....

 

[Gregg]

What if your faith, and trust, and hope don't remain in the Lord Jesus Christ? Are you still going to be saved on the Day of Judgment? The Bible says, 'no'.

I understand what you are saying, and the Scriptures with warnings. I do not fear losing faith as that is something that He began in me. I trust the Lord, and I am learning to trust Him. My hope is in Him, a confident expectation that He will finish what He began.

He will establish, and in Him is strength.

 

[Gregg]

So, "the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified" (Hebrews 10:29 NASB) doesn't really mean what it so plainly says?

It doesn't say he thought he was sanctified by the blood of Jesus, it plainly says he was sanctified by the blood of Jesus.

Explain how one is sanctified by the blood of the covenant, and I will answer you.

 

[JLB]

I understand what you are saying, and the Scriptures with warnings. I do not fear losing faith as that is something that He began in me. I trust the Lord, and I am learning to trust Him. My hope is in Him, a confident expectation that He will finish what He began.

He will establish, and in Him is strength.

That's the mindset that will carry you through unto the end.

However, everyone does not have this same mindset.


JLB

 

[Gregg]

Matthew 25:14-41

Are all the servants in this teaching the world, or are all the servants the Kings Servants.

Once you come to grips that all the servants represent the citizens of the kingdom, who were left with the responsibility of obeying what the king left for they to do, then you will see that the servants are a part of God's kingdom and the crime was being wicked and lazy, ie; unprofitable.

These servants represent the kings people, not the world.

You want a response after defining what the answer must be. Again, you are framing the parameters from which someone must see the Scriptures.

"For to each who has, more will be given, and he will abound. But from him who does not have, even that which he has will be taken from him" (Mat 25:29).

"And indeed He will set the sheep off His right, but the goats off the left hand" (Mat 25:33). Two animals of a different kind.

Read and understand the texts you call upon for doctrine. An explanation is most always nearby

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Explain how one is sanctified by the blood of the covenant, and I will answer you.

How, you ask? By faith:

"...the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, 18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'" (Acts 26:17-18 NASB)

 

[JLB]

You want a response after defining what the answer must be. Again, you are framing the parameters from which someone must see the Scriptures.

"For to each who has, more will be given, and he will abound. But from him who does not have, even that which he has will be taken from him" (Mat 25:29).

"And indeed He will set the sheep off His right, but the goats off the left hand" (Mat 25:33). Two animals of a different kind.

Read and understand the texts you call upon for doctrine. An explanation is most always nearby

One must have "good ground" in order for more to be given.

The "good ground" is a heart to understand.

Ears to hear and a heart to understand.

JLB

 

[Gregg]

I understand what you are saying, and the Scriptures with warnings. I do not fear losing faith as that is something that He began in me. I trust the Lord, and I am learning to trust Him. My hope is in Him, a confident expectation that He will finish what He began.

He will establish, and in Him is strength.

That's the mindset that will carry you through unto the end.
However, everyone does not have this same mindset.
JLB

The Lord will indeed carry me through to the end.

 

[JLB]

The Lord will indeed carry me through to the end.

I agree

 

[Jethro Bodine]

there's a lot of Scripture that shows that that businessman never got into heaven to start with.

the simplest may be the one about sowing seed in rocky soil, but there's many more ....

I think what you mean is he was never truly saved. And you use the 2nd type of soil to illustrate these people who never really believed and so were never really saved. Problem--Jesus said those who are represented in the 2nd type of soil you speak of did believe, but just for a while until trouble and persecution because of the word came:

"13"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)

"17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away." (Mark 4:17 NASB)

The person who falls away is not someone who had no faith and was, therefore, never saved as OSAS teaches. No, the person who falls away had a weak faith--one not firmly rooted. That's why we are exhorted to grow in faith and have a strong faith, so we can endure to the end and be saved on the Day of Wrath, not turned away into damnation because we did not endure and overcome to the end.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Lord will indeed carry me through to the end.

This is the faith that saves. This is the faith you must have to the end. You can not be saved without having this faith to the very end. And we all have to be prepared to have that faith tested because the potential to fall from the faith we have is very, very real, just as it was for the church at Smyrna who were warned ahead of time by Jesus that they would be tested by being put into prison, and that they were not to deny the name of Christ so that they would receive the crown of life:

10'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10 NASB)

 

[Gregg]

The Lord will indeed carry me through to the end.

This is the faith that saves. This is the faith you must have to the end. You can not be saved without having this faith to the very end. And we all have to be prepared to have that faith tested because the potential to fall from the faith we have is very, very real, just as it was for the church at Smyrna who were warned ahead of time by Jesus that they would be tested by being put into prison, and that they were not to deny the name of Christ so that they would receive the crown of life:

10'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10 NASB)

You have taken my statement - which only mentions an action by the Lord - and have manipulated it be an action that I must continue doing. You do this to the Scriptures in a very similar way.

Salvation begins and never ends. If it has begun, the very nature of that salvation is that it will not end. It begins at his birth as a believer, when he is born again.

non-OSAS: maybe life as it is based upon the ability of a man
OSAS: eternal life based upon God's word, His Christ, and Their Spirit

 

[JLB]

You have taken my statement - which only mentions an action by the Lord - and have manipulated it be an action that I must continue doing. You do this to the Scriptures in a very similar way.

Salvation begins and never ends. If it has begun, the very nature of that salvation is that it will not end. It begins at his birth as a believer, when he is born again.

non-OSAS: maybe life as it is based upon the ability of a man
OSAS: eternal life based upon God's word, His Christ, and Their Spirit

The reality of your Salvation will be realized way His Coming.

No longer will you have faith for Salvation, but you will in fact have received the Salvation of your soul, which is the redemption of your body.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 5:3-5

...who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

There is the word guarantee that you used earlier, in your statement in which you said, once we are born again, the outcome is guaranteed.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:19-25


We are hoping for the Salvation that will be a reality at His Coming.


JLB

 

[agua.]

Please show me in the Bible where it says trusting in Christ to the very end is a 'wonderful work' that many will have erroneously taken comfort in and as a result will be turned away by Jesus on that day.

Please show me quotes from people ( anyone ) who suggest trusting in Christ to the very end is a "wonderful work". Here's that link describing logical fallacies again for your information. ( In particular straw man )

Your logic fallacy is Straw Man

"By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate."


It's also against the ToS to misrepresent another posters argument.

"....It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member."

Snip ToS 2.4


When Jesus returns there will be many people who point to their own efforts and they seem to truly believe they were saved.
.
Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.