Butch5
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Losing Salvation after getting saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
Gregg
Member
God began our salvation and He will finish that good work, as He finishes all works that He begins. We can not loose something God began, maintains, and promises to complete.
Butch5
Member
That passage was written to the Philippians. However, it's not speaking about their salvation., it's about their supporting his ministry.
jeff77
Member
I think the key there is that they kept on repenting.
Gary
Member
Gregg
Member
How can a Christian reject salvation (or God)? Salvation is a permanent and fixed position into which we are placed; not of our own will, agency, or power - but by that of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.
An unsaved man can reject God and His will regarding faith in Jesus Christ; but, a Christian can reject neither.
Butch5
Member
Where does Scripture teach that salvation is a place?
Gregg
Member
My statement says 'permanent and fixed position' into which we are 'placed.' We are placed in Christ, a very firm place. "I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more" (Rev 3:12). Again, this not of our own will, agency, or power, but by that of God Himself.
Butch5
Member
I know what your statement is. What I was asking is where the Scripture is to support it. The passage from Rev 3 is speaking of the kingdom of god after the resurrection. These passage have to understood in their context, we can't just pull them from their context and try to make them say something else..
Jethro Bodine
Member
But the whole counsel of God shows us the promise is contingent on having faith--and continuing in that faith.
We gentiles really can't appreciate the truth what the Bible stresses about the surety of God's ministry to save a people for himself. The point is, when we put our faith and trust in Christ to save us we can have complete confidence that we are not at the mercy of a yutz like Eli to properly and successfully mediate between us and God. But the surety of Christ's ministry hardly removes any responsibility of the people to rely on that ministry.
Can you see what I'm getting at? The surety of salvation is not that it does not depend on us in any way shape or form. The surety of salvation is based in the perfect ministry of Christ to accomplish that which the people of God are depending on it to accomplish for them. The sure hope and promise of that perfect ministry is for those who cling to it tenaciously through a continuing and unwavering faith. That responsibility did not get removed for the people of God with the appearing of Christ's perfect ministry. But it seems so many teach that the new and better way of faith in Christ means we play no part in salvation whatsoever and it is that that makes it sure and irrevocable. Do you see what I'm saying?
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Then John the Apostle is saying John Mark, Paul's nephew, was never saved to begin with, correct?
Jethro Bodine
Member
The point being, OSAS was not believed by the early church Fathers, and the church continued to resist OSAS in the first centuries of the church when Augustine taught it in his writings. And that it wasn't until the reformation many centuries later that it finally made it's way into the doctrine of the church. Correct?
Jethro Bodine
Member
I think it important to know that the promise, or hope of salvation is what can be lost. Because the promise is contingent on a faith the endures to the end.
As they say, "It ain't over till it's over." When we get to the kingdom described in Revelation, that is when those tested and tried in this life will have the irrevocable eternal security of an eternally secure kingdom and salvation.
As they say, "It ain't over till it's over." When we get to the kingdom described in Revelation, that is when those tested and tried in this life will have the irrevocable eternal security of an eternally secure kingdom and salvation.
Gregg
Member
Rev 3:12 is speaking of God's kingdom in its current state. Jesus, the Son of God, is currently building His Father's house. At the moment we are saved we become a member of Christ's body; we become a pillar in the Temple of God. Being 'in Christ' is a fixed place of rest; as the Greek word for 'in' defines a position between 'into' and 'out of'.
Once 'in Christ' we are sealed in that position by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13), Who is an earnest or pledge for the completion of our redemption. This sealing by the Holy Spirit is unconditional. The outcome is guaranteed based upon God's word and action. So Jesus said to John in Rev 3 that once becoming a pillar in God's Temple that man would not go out from it anymore.
For this reason [the permanent nature and guarantee of our salvation], Paul expressed His confidence that God would complete the work that He began in the Philippians - in the same way that God began their salvation and He will complete it. In Php 1:6, Paul was not speaking of the Philippian's work but rather God's work of salvation that He began. Their giving [participation in the Gospel (Php 1:5)] was a fruit of their being saved; having heard and believed in the very same Gospel they were now participating in. Their being sharers of grace with Paul (Php 1:7) was because the grace of God had led to their salvation; again which was producing in them a fruit of salvation. The Gospel - Christ's Death and Resurrection - along with God's grace and His gift of faith are His works.
God does not leave His work unfinished. When He initiates salvation in a man, He maintains and completes that work of salvation.
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Gregg
Member
But even our repenting is not an action that guarantees Salvation. A Christian repenting is an action possible because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our new nature.
Gregg
Member
That faith is a gift of God, irrevocable. We have a High priest who is able to maintain both our faith and our salvation.
We Gentiles really can appreciate every truth in the Bible, even the permanence and guarantee of salvation.
I do see what you are getting at. You who believe that salvation and eternal life can be lost or given up once obtained, have reverted to dependence upon the Law and your own works for your salvation.
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Gary
Member
Gary
Member
Gregg
Member
What is it in our faith that makes God's promise sure? To think like this you are having faith in your own faith - an unstable position as it does not rest upon what God has accomplished in Christ.
But the faith that is from God is a gift from Him. His promises are sure because of His unchangeable character, because of His steadfast word, and because of His work and not ours.
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Gregg
Member
Many Scriptures have already been posted stating the permanent nature of our salvation.