Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Butch5]

(Php 1:6) "being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

Hi Gregg22,

What does that passage have to do with the OP?

 

[Gregg]

Hi Gregg22,

What does that passage have to do with the OP?

God began our salvation and He will finish that good work, as He finishes all works that He begins. We can not loose something God began, maintains, and promises to complete.

 

[Butch5]

God began our salvation and He will finish that good work, as He finishes all works that He begins. We can not loose something God began, maintains, and promises to complete.

That passage was written to the Philippians. However, it's not speaking about their salvation., it's about their supporting his ministry.

 

[jeff77]

(Php 1:6) "being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

A Christian can repent from sin (even seventy times seven), but never looses his salvation. But, a Christian can not be born again and again and again . . .

(Heb 6:4-6) "For it is impossible for those being once enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, then falling away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame."

I think the key there is that they kept on repenting.

 

[Gary]

God began our salvation and He will finish that good work, as He finishes all works that He begins. We can not loose something God began, maintains, and promises to complete.

We can't lose it but we can reject it.
.

 

[Gregg]

We can't lose it but we can reject it.
.

How can a Christian reject salvation (or God)? Salvation is a permanent and fixed position into which we are placed; not of our own will, agency, or power - but by that of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

An unsaved man can reject God and His will regarding faith in Jesus Christ; but, a Christian can reject neither.

 

[Butch5]

How can a Christian reject salvation (or God)? Salvation is a permanent and fixed position into which we are placed; not of our own will, agency, or power - but by that of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

Where does Scripture teach that salvation is a place?

 

[Gregg]

Where does Scripture teach that salvation is a place?

My statement says 'permanent and fixed position' into which we are 'placed.' We are placed in Christ, a very firm place. "I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more" (Rev 3:12). Again, this not of our own will, agency, or power, but by that of God Himself.

 

[Butch5]

My statement says 'permanent and fixed position' into which we are 'placed.' We are placed in Christ, a very firm place. "I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more" (Rev 3:12). Again, this not of our own will, agency, or power, but by that of God Himself.

I know what your statement is. What I was asking is where the Scripture is to support it. The passage from Rev 3 is speaking of the kingdom of god after the resurrection. These passage have to understood in their context, we can't just pull them from their context and try to make them say something else..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God began our salvation and He will finish that good work, as He finishes all works that He begins. We can not loose something God began, maintains, and promises to complete.

But the whole counsel of God shows us the promise is contingent on having faith--and continuing in that faith.

We gentiles really can't appreciate the truth what the Bible stresses about the surety of God's ministry to save a people for himself. The point is, when we put our faith and trust in Christ to save us we can have complete confidence that we are not at the mercy of a yutz like Eli to properly and successfully mediate between us and God. But the surety of Christ's ministry hardly removes any responsibility of the people to rely on that ministry.

Can you see what I'm getting at? The surety of salvation is not that it does not depend on us in any way shape or form. The surety of salvation is based in the perfect ministry of Christ to accomplish that which the people of God are depending on it to accomplish for them. The sure hope and promise of that perfect ministry is for those who cling to it tenaciously through a continuing and unwavering faith. That responsibility did not get removed for the people of God with the appearing of Christ's perfect ministry. But it seems so many teach that the new and better way of faith in Christ means we play no part in salvation whatsoever and it is that that makes it sure and irrevocable. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don't ask me, ask John the Apostle, he wrote it.
I imagine the Holy Spirit told him.
But don't take my word for it, you better ask him yourself.

Then John the Apostle is saying John Mark, Paul's nephew, was never saved to begin with, correct?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Augustine posited "Perseverance of the Saints," however, that idea was rejected by the church. We don't see OSAS as an accepted church doctrine until the Reformation and the teaching of reformers such as Calvin. Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk and studied the writings of Augustine.

The point being, OSAS was not believed by the early church Fathers, and the church continued to resist OSAS in the first centuries of the church when Augustine taught it in his writings. And that it wasn't until the reformation many centuries later that it finally made it's way into the doctrine of the church. Correct?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think it important to know that the promise, or hope of salvation is what can be lost. Because the promise is contingent on a faith the endures to the end.

As they say, "It ain't over till it's over." When we get to the kingdom described in Revelation, that is when those tested and tried in this life will have the irrevocable eternal security of an eternally secure kingdom and salvation.

 

[Gregg]

I know what your statement is. What I was asking is where the Scripture is to support it. The passage from Rev 3 is speaking of the kingdom of god after the resurrection. These passage have to understood in their context, we can't just pull them from their context and try to make them say something else..

Rev 3:12 is speaking of God's kingdom in its current state. Jesus, the Son of God, is currently building His Father's house. At the moment we are saved we become a member of Christ's body; we become a pillar in the Temple of God. Being 'in Christ' is a fixed place of rest; as the Greek word for 'in' defines a position between 'into' and 'out of'.

Once 'in Christ' we are sealed in that position by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13), Who is an earnest or pledge for the completion of our redemption. This sealing by the Holy Spirit is unconditional. The outcome is guaranteed based upon God's word and action. So Jesus said to John in Rev 3 that once becoming a pillar in God's Temple that man would not go out from it anymore.

For this reason [the permanent nature and guarantee of our salvation], Paul expressed His confidence that God would complete the work that He began in the Philippians - in the same way that God began their salvation and He will complete it. In Php 1:6, Paul was not speaking of the Philippian's work but rather God's work of salvation that He began. Their giving [participation in the Gospel (Php 1:5)] was a fruit of their being saved; having heard and believed in the very same Gospel they were now participating in. Their being sharers of grace with Paul (Php 1:7) was because the grace of God had led to their salvation; again which was producing in them a fruit of salvation. The Gospel - Christ's Death and Resurrection - along with God's grace and His gift of faith are His works.

God does not leave His work unfinished. When He initiates salvation in a man, He maintains and completes that work of salvation.

 

[Gregg]

I think the key there is that they kept on repenting.

But even our repenting is not an action that guarantees Salvation. A Christian repenting is an action possible because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our new nature.

 

[Gregg]

But the whole counsel of God shows us the promise is contingent on having faith--and continuing in that faith.

We gentiles really can't appreciate the truth what the Bible stresses about the surety of God's ministry to save a people for himself. The point is, when we put our faith and trust in Christ to save us we can have complete confidence that we are not at the mercy of a yutz like Eli to properly and successfully mediate between us and God. But the surety of Christ's ministry hardly removes any responsibility of the people to rely on that ministry.

Can you see what I'm getting at? The surety of salvation is not that it does not depend on us in any way shape or form. The surety of salvation is based in the perfect ministry of Christ to accomplish that which the people of God are depending on it to accomplish for them. The sure hope and promise of that perfect ministry is for those who cling to it tenaciously through a continuing and unwavering faith. That responsibility did not get removed for the people of God with the appearing of Christ's perfect ministry. But it seems so many teach that the new and better way of faith in Christ means we play no part in salvation whatsoever and it is that that makes it sure and irrevocable. Do you see what I'm saying?

That faith is a gift of God, irrevocable. We have a High priest who is able to maintain both our faith and our salvation.

We Gentiles really can appreciate every truth in the Bible, even the permanence and guarantee of salvation.

I do see what you are getting at. You who believe that salvation and eternal life can be lost or given up once obtained, have reverted to dependence upon the Law and your own works for your salvation.

 

[Gary]

That faith is a gift of God, irrevocable. We have a High priest who is able to maintain both our faith and our salvation.

We Gentiles really can appreciate every truth in the Bible, even the permanence and guarantee of salvation.

I do see what you are getting at. You who believe that salvation and eternal life can be lost or given up once obtained, have reverted to dependence upon the Law and your own works for your salvation.

Does one obtain salvation simply by believing in God?
.

 

[Gary]

How can a Christian reject salvation (or God)? Salvation is a permanent and fixed position into which we are placed; not of our own will, agency, or power - but by that of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

An unsaved man can reject God and His will regarding faith in Jesus Christ; but, a Christian can reject neither.

Would you mind posting the scripture that states this?
.

 

[Gregg]

He had faith. Faith makes the promise sure.

What is it in our faith that makes God's promise sure? To think like this you are having faith in your own faith - an unstable position as it does not rest upon what God has accomplished in Christ.

But the faith that is from God is a gift from Him. His promises are sure because of His unchangeable character, because of His steadfast word, and because of His work and not ours.

 

[Gregg]

Would you mind posting the scripture that states this?
.

Many Scriptures have already been posted stating the permanent nature of our salvation.