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Luke 7:30 examples of those who reject the purpose of God for themselves

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John 3:8?
Thank you, and Dorothy, you read my mind. The wind, like the Holy Spirit, is inescapable. It reaches everyone, yet some claim the presence of the Lord only for themselves. Perhaps they have another spirit? I know one thing for sure, their spirit is not my spirit, or the spirit of the redeemed.
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Thank you. That is what I was thinking of. The wind, like the Holy Spirit, is inescapable. It reaches everyone, yet some claim the presence of the Lord only for themselves. Perhaps they have another, different spirit? I know one thing for sure, their spirit is not my spirit, or the spirit of the redeemed.
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The HS is not inescapable. The Bible says it can even be “quenched” and “resisted.”
 
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Listen. The Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God, and you say we do not have free will.

Get real.
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All that was is they didnt want to get water baptized. That showed they were slaves to sin, not free
 
Your thoughts are better than my thoughts, and clearly that is what has happened within Calvinism, and elsewhere also. :sad Godless. It is so sad.
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You are very kind. It’s a pretty scary thought to realize we, ourselves, can stop God from working in our lives. A fire quenched is out. A forced resisted is unable to accomplish the goals. We have that power. SCARY!! 😦 One can see why people run to the comforting untruth that God always manipulates instead of respecting free will. Comforts them to think they cannot miss out by their own choices.
 
All that was is they didnt want to get water baptized. That showed they were slaves to sin, not free
Yes, the Pharisees were slaves to sin, and they exercised their free will by refusing to be baptised. Sadly, Calvinists deny free will, but it is there in all of us. Perhaps you should reconsider the sandy foundation on which Calvinism is built.
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Yes, the Pharisees were slaves to sin, they exercised their free will by refusing to be baptised, yet Calvinists deny free will but it is there in all of us. Perhaps Calvinists should reconsider the foundation on which Calvinism is built.
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No one becomes a slave to sin who does not choose to sin. Cooper, the Calvinist position is they were manipulated by God Almighty to sin. They cannot help themselves. So it is not their fault. They were predestined to sin and then go to hell.

Of course they will say it is not God's fault on one side but they had no choice nevetheless on the other. We will not get them to see the impossibility of this. But it is helpful to see how the other side from your own position thinks. How can we know we do not believe the position other's take if we do not understand it? In this light, discussion is not fruitless. Talk to enough Calvinists as I have done and a pattern emerges. It is pretty interesting. One comes to understand the Calvinist position better than they do.
 
You are very kind. It’s a pretty scary thought to realize we, ourselves, can stop God from working in our lives. A fire quenched is out. A forced resisted is unable to accomplish the goals. We have that power. SCARY!! 😦 One can see why people run to the comforting untruth that God always manipulates instead of respecting free will. Comforts them to think they cannot miss out by their own choices.
The early Church kept the fire alive by encouraging each other, meeting with like-minded people, and excluding false teachers by removing some of their 'privileges'.
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No one becomes a slave to sin who does not choose to sin. Cooper, the Calvinist position is they were manipulated by God Almighty to sin. They cannot help themselves. So it is not their fault. They were predestined to sin and then go to hell.

Of course they will say it is not God's fault on one side but they had no choice nevetheless on the other. We will not get them to see the impossibility of this. But it is helpful to see how the other side from your own position thinks. How can we know we do not believe the position other's take if we do not understand it? In this light, discussion is not fruitless. Talk to enough Calvinists as I have done and a pattern emerges. It is pretty interesting. One comes to understand the Calvinist position better than they do.
Despite what I said in the previous post, I find these debates strengthen my faith.
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Despite what I said in the previous post, I find these debates strengthen my faith.
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Me too. The truth is rock solid not by stubborn blindness but by logic. It is so rewarding to test what you believe against other views and find there aren’t any holes. And one changes when there are.
 
Yes, the Pharisees were slaves to sin, and they exercised their free will by refusing to be baptised. Sadly, Calvinists deny free will, but it is there in all of us. Perhaps you should reconsider the sandy foundation on which Calvinism is built.
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They did what sin made them do, they were not free from sin. Jesus told them John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus tells slaves to sin the lust of their father they will do ! Not might do if they choose with their freewill, but they will do because their will is a slave, servant to sin and doing the lust of the devil
 
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They did what sin made them do, they were free from sin. Jesus told them John 8:44
Those two statments are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be true logically.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Notice he, the devil, was a murdered from the beginning, not a man.
Jesus tells slaves to sin the lust of their father they will do !
No, Jesus never tells anyone to sin. never ever (The "Jesus tells" is the common form. Maybe you meant something else but that is what those words mean.)
Not might do if they choose with their freewill, but they will do because their will is a slave, servant to sin and doing the lust of the devil
"Will do" in the verse refers to future, not "will" in terms of internal choice. If I will go to work tomorrow, it refers to what I do in the next 24 hours. It does not mean I have mental power to do so. The word "will" can mean more than one thing. Jesus meant the in the future. No baby is born doing the lust of the devil. None.
 
Those two statments are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be true logically.

Notice he, the devil, was a murdered from the beginning, not a man.

No, Jesus never tells anyone to sin. never ever (The "Jesus tells" is the common form. Maybe you meant something else but that is what those words mean.)

"Will do" in the verse refers to future, not "will" in terms of internal choice. If I will go to work tomorrow, it refers to what I do in the next 24 hours. It does not mean I have mental power to do so. The word "will" can mean more than one thing. Jesus meant the in the future. No baby is born doing the lust of the devil. None.
So you believe the ones Jesus told them " the lusts of your father the devil ye will do " had a freewill choice not to do the lust of their father the devil ?
 
All that was is they didnt want to get water baptized. That showed they were slaves to sin, not free
"They did not want to get baptised," means they exercised free will. It was their personal choice. We are not zombies, as you would like us to think.
Are you a zombie or did you choose your religion?
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"They did not want to get baptised," means they exercised free will. It was their personal choice. We are not zombies, as you would like us to think.
Are you a zombie or did you choose your religion?
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They acted according to being a slave of sin, doing the will of their father the devil, as Jesus says they will do. Their will isnt free from doing what Jesus said they will do.
 
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