Lying

[jasonc]

WAR is seldom black and white. sometimes in this case we do have to lie to save a life. its not a sin in that case. you as a soldier know this

 

[Edward]

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the bible doesn't provide a list of instances when lying isn't considered a sin. So yeah, that's about right.

That sure sounds right. I don't remember any exceptions either, not even if ISIS or the Beast is coming in the front door and you have hidden loved ones in the house that you have charge to protect. Hmmm, conundrum. What's a guy to do?

That's a moment when one gets to walk in a serious level of faith in God. That's the only way out of it that I can see. He will not fail. He can't, He won't. The Lord has shown me repeated times that He will help me, and has. So much so that it's become a pattern, last minute never late. BUT! It's never been of such grave circumstance since, well, once only. Most of the time the problems were illusory anyway, worldly business, not someones life.

Like Moses and the Israelites all backed up against the Red Sea. That was a real army coming after them. No way for them to lie their way out of it, lol. It was God or die. God did help. I suspect that there are times coming where such a level of faith will be essential to survival. You can't run from them anyway. They have infared imaging and all sorts of stuff. They even have helicoptors with sniffing devices on them which can zero in on the CO from your campfire and fly right to you. Down to parts per million PPM. SO if it would have to be God or lie...it has to be God.

 

[Gary]

WAR is seldom black and white. sometimes in this case we do have to lie to save a life. its not a sin in that case. you as a soldier know this

Regardless of the roles we play in this life, the commandments do not change.

 

[Edward]

WAR is seldom black and white. sometimes in this case we do have to lie to save a life. its not a sin in that case. you as a soldier know this

That's different, that's organized warfare where you are under authority that scripture says you must respect.

 

[stovebolts]

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the bible doesn't provide a list of instances when lying isn't considered a sin. So yeah, that's about right.

So lying is not telling the truth, right?
And telling the truth is very important right?
What about not telling the whole truth? I mean, what if you just told part of the truth?

I mean, what if you knew the whole truth would hurt another person? Would it be lying to only tell part of the truth?

 

[stovebolts]

One of the problems I see is the delima of conflicting values.

How do you navigate the conflict? What is more valuable when you are forced to make a decision where core values are in direct conflict?

I mentioned earlier that all commandments hang on two prime commandments.
1. Love the Lord.
2. Love our neighbor.

When we uphold these two commandments as core values, then we work all of the commandments through that lense. Thus fulfilling the Law which is written in our heart.

This is how we learn to discern IMHO.

 

[stovebolts]

That's different, that's organized warfare where you are under authority that scripture says you must respect.

Very good.... You are weighing scripture and placing the conflict within biblical context.

Seems to me though that even Peter did not subject himself fully to the authorities... Neither did Paul.

 

[Gary]

So lying is not telling the truth, right?
And telling the truth is very important right?
What about not telling the whole truth? I mean, what if you just told part of the truth?

I mean, what if you knew the whole truth would hurt another person? Would it be lying to only tell part of the truth?

If you only provide a part of the truth but claim it is the whole truth, then yes it's lying.

 

[stovebolts]

If you only provide a part of the truth but claim it is the whole truth, then yes it's lying.

What do you mean by claim it as the whole truth? What if I conviently withheld the whole truth and only told you the parts that I wanted to? Is that still a lie?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Were those hiding Jews during the Holocaust sinning when they lied to the police?

Good points questdriven, this is taking into account intention and not getting stuck into a black and white world. God looks upon the heart.

 

[jasonc]

That's different, that's organized warfare where you are under authority that scripture says you must respect.

war is seldom black and white.
did you know that this nation asked the mafia in new York to patrol the shores of the manhattan island? why because they had the arms and the boats to patrol. for the cost of all prior crimes we know about. they disappear. sometimes the greater evil must be dealt with first. I don't like that but that is the world we live in. I don't live in a bubble.

 

[Gary]

What do you mean by claim it as the whole truth? What if I conviently withheld the whole truth and only told you the parts that I wanted to? Is that still a lie?

That's being deceitful and dishonest.

 

[stovebolts]

So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, “After I am worn out and my lord is old, will I now have this pleasure?”

13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?

Hmmm..... Is God a liar? Is he being deceitful Gary

 

[Gary]

So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, “After I am worn out and my lord is old, will I now have this pleasure?”

13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?

Hmmm..... Is God a liar? Is he being deceitful Gary

What does Sarah's laughter have to do with God's honesty?

 

[jasonc]

oh, I wont go there but well I know that and its importance to be asked.

you can also go into the lying spirit in the book of the kings where god basically said whom shall lie for me.

 

[stovebolts]

What does Sarah's laughter have to do with God's honesty?

Nothing
This isn't about Gods honesty. Its about Abraham's relationship with his wife.

If you hold to a strict reading of the text, Sarah said nothing. She thought these things, but she did not say them.

You said if we hold back from the whole truth, that's deception. Why didn't God tell Abraham that Sarah thought he (Abraham) was too old to have children? Wouldn't that be deceptive?

Thoughts?

 

[reba]

Pro_6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Is lying any more of a sin thensowing discord?

 

[Gary]

You said if we hold back from the whole truth, that's deception. Why didn't God tell Abraham that Sarah thought he (Abraham) was too old to have children? Wouldn't that be deceptive?

Thoughts?

God was commenting on Sarah's thoughts, He wasn't answering a request. I suppose if Abraham had asked, God would've been honest with him.
.

 

[Gary]

Pro_6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Is lying any more of a sin then sowing discord?

Is someone sowing discord?

 

[stovebolts]

Pro_6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Is lying any more of a sin thensowing discord?

I hope you don't think I'm sowing discord. I don't see anyone else sowing discord at the moment either.

To be honest, yes I've been having fun. But only to spur thinking from the heart that our eyes would be opened to the great mercies of our Lord.