Lying

[jasonc]

I find that to be the truth.
Gen 20: 12
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife

half truth. remember they married the woman sarai. both told Abraham dost thou hatest me?

 

[Pizza]

While their motives were noble and commendable, a lie is still a lie, and according to God's character, it is a sin. However, God would certainly forgive a sin that could lead to a greater good.

so if they didn't tell that lie and men died its not a sin?

That's an even greater sin. But sins are always sins.

Comment removed staff We can comb the bible and get it to say anything we want to - or we can step back and remember that a living, breathing Savior and loving God inspired every word. They are not inflexible magic words spoken by a robot, and we are given intellect to read them.

I can hear God saying, "You state that you believe that I would equate lying about someone's presence in your home to save their life as equal to lying to protect your own sin from reaching the light of day? And you profess you know me?"

There is no sin in saving a life; to defend the innocent from evil. Given the circumstances, many, many people had no other means of saving those lives. Theirs was an act of bravery and risk, and I am confident that, not only did they not sin, but that their actions and bravery honored God, were they doing this in His name or in reverence to Him - and I know that many were!

Comment removed by staff

 

[Roro1972]

half truth. remember they married the woman sarai. both told Abraham dost thou hatest me?

your statement is after the king found out from God in a dream she was Abrams wife. No one married her they brought her to the castle her to possibly marry her because they were told she was his sister; she was his sister so that is the truth. He was under no obligation to tell them she ALSO is my wife, God did that.

 

[jasonc]

your statement is after the king found out from God in a dream she was Abrams wife. No one married her they brought her to the castle her to possibly marry her because they were told she was his sister; she was his sister so that is the truth. He was under no obligation to tell she ALSO is my wife.

god said to abilimech thou art a dead man. he aslo curse the Egyptians for the marriage to sarai by pharaoh. why would God judge them if they didn't do sarai wrong? abram set her up and lied to them and god protected sarai from that stuff.

 

[Roro1972]

god said to abilimech thou art a dead man. he aslo curse the Egyptians for the marriage to sarai by pharaoh. why would God judge them if they didn't do sarai wrong? abram set her up and lied to them and god protected sarai from that stuff.

1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

In v 3 God is saying that; only in the terms of Abimelec going thru with the plan; Had God not intervined there may have been a marriage or possibly sex; God stepped in before the plan unfolded. And they both were not planning to marry her. And neither married her. God did not say a single word to Abraham out leaving out the part of her being his wife when they ask who she was.

 

[Malachi]

Christian faith believes that God Himself is ABSOLUTE holiness and righteousness. Scripture also says that God cannot lie (Tit 1:2; Heb 6:18). However, human beings can and do lie, and if a lie is for the purpose of doing good, God takes that into account. But a lie remains a lie, because it is the opposite of truth.

 

[jeff77]

Not directed at the last poster.

7) Do not post opinions of another member's claim of Christian faith. (ToS 2.4)
Publicly judging someone as not being a Christian and/or not following Christ unless they themselves claim not be a Christian is disallowed. That's between them and the Lord. This includes judgments against collective beliefs or groups in general.

 

[Pizza]

Not directed at the last poster.

7) Do not post opinions of another member's claim of Christian faith. (ToS 2.4)
Publicly judging someone as not being a Christian and/or not following Christ unless they themselves claim not be a Christian is disallowed. That's between them and the Lord. This includes judgments against collective beliefs or groups in general.

That is directed at me.

Malachi:
My post was not at all meant to imply or say that I did not think you were a Christian or that you didn't know the Lord. Given your posts here over the time I have been here, I've never once thought such a thing of you, nor would I.

Im unsure if the mods can let this post remain as I type it, but what I said was that I thought your view that lying to, say, the SS during the Nazi regime to protect someone's life is a lie same as any other is problematic. I don't see God as that inflexible/robotic/unreasonably demanding, etc.

Such an act of bravery is that, an act of heroic bravery first and foremost. A person telling the Nazis such an untruth was putting themselves at risk of being shot, or given a free ride in one of the cattle cars that the Jews and others were being put in.


I guess I have come, after 37 years a Christian, to a point where the literal interpretation of every verse in the Bible no longer makes sense. God is a living, thinking, reasoning entity. Sure, He is holy and just, etc., but He is also very much intelligent, understanding and compassionate. I don't see Him as inflexible as others do, because He has not interacted with me in an inflexible way.

Ever.

 

[Gary]

Lying is still a sin.

 

[stovebolts]

Christian faith believes that God Himself is ABSOLUTE holiness and righteousness. Scripture also says that God cannot lie (Tit 1:2; Heb 6:18). However, human beings can and do lie, and if a lie is for the purpose of doing good, God takes that into account. But a lie remains a lie, because it is the opposite of truth.

Perhaps the truth is bigger than a lie? Or perhaps our vocabulary is too small for the truth.

If its the right thing to do, how can it be a sin?

 

[reba]

When i think of lying it brings to mind the other sins i see as sorta the same...

gossip.. back biting ... etc.

 

[stovebolts]

Since the Lord Jesus Christ is TRUTH (Jn 14:6), and since God is the God of TRUTH (Isa 65:16), truth is everything that conforms to the character and mind of God and Christ. This includes the entire wirtten revelation of God (the Holy Bible) and all the universal laws (moral, spiritual, and physical) that govern this universe.

So, Jesus would want you to tell ISIS, "Yes, I am harboring innocent people. I know you will kill them, but I want to be like Jesus, so I must only speak the truth."

For some reason, I don't see that as the truth of the matter. What I see as truth are people who wish to harm innocent people, and I will do what's within my means to keep them safe. This is far from a lie.

Jesus tells of a man who was beaten and half dead. A priest saw him, and because of his religious belief, crossed to the other side of the road. A Levite did the same thing.

Now then, what two commandments do all the commandments hang on?

A non religious man saw the man in need, so he stopped to help.

Sad when religion either stops you from doing what is right, or makes you feel guilty for doing what is right.

 

[Gary]

Regardless of the situation at hand, lying is always a sin.

There is never a time when lying is not sinful.

 

[stovebolts]

Regardless of the situation at hand, lying is always a sin.

There is never a time when lying is not sinful.

And God doesn't want us to sin right?

 

[Gary]

And God doesn't want us to sin right?

Right.

 

[stovebolts]

Right.

So if God doesn't want us to sin, and lying is a sin then according to God you should never lie for any reason.
Is that about right?

 

[Gary]

So if God doesn't want us to sin, and lying is a sin then according to God you should never lie for any reason.
Is that about right?

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the bible doesn't provide a list of instances when lying isn't considered a sin. So yeah, that's about right.

 

[jasonc]

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the bible doesn't provide a list of instances when lying isn't considered a sin. So yeah, that's about right.

I will keep that I mind with the isis crisis and they cometh for thee.

 

[Gary]

I will keep that I mind with the isis crisis and they cometh for thee.

 

[jasonc]

1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

In v 3 God is saying that; only in the terms of Abimelec going thru with the plan; Had God not intervined there may have been a marriage or possibly sex; God stepped in before the plan unfolded. And they both were not planning to marry her. And neither married her. God did not say a single word to Abraham out leaving out the part of her being his wife when they ask who she was.

he still had to if Abraham said this is sarai my wife, what would have happened? something else and god would have protected them from the Egyptians and philistines.

so you are saying that god didn't think he would marry her? odd if there wasn't any plan to if Abraham was honest. if I didn't know some attractive woman was a mans wife and sister and did the same and sinned. how would I ever know if she didn't tell me or Abraham. if I did marry her and she then said I have Abraham for a husband. whom would go kill? not her. Abraham? thus my point, even if its off whether they sinned. they perceived her as a free lady, no thanks to that sorry man at the time.