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[_ Old Earth _] Man evolving from apes

  • Thread starter Thread starter GraceBwithU
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GraceBwithU

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Please get over it.
I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in history books of the future.

I have no problem with science, but evolution,(as in man evolving from apes) is not science. It is a hobby that only exists in the mind of the evolutionary scientist.
 
GraceBwithU said:
Please get over it.
I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in history books of the future.

I have no problem with science, but evolution,(as in man evolving from apes) is not science. It is a hobby that only exists in the mind of the evolutionary scientist.

You're an idiot.

Right. Now that's over and done with, you're wrong. Oh so wrong.
For more than 150 years evolution has been studied, observed, and reviewed repeatedly. Yet it is still standing, and taller than ever before.
Please, I'm oh so curious, enlighten us on the rationality behind the statement "evolution is not science".
It's funny you say the evolution will be a laughing stock in the future, because creationism and intelligent design is the laughing stock of the present, and will be for a long time.
Inform yourself before making a fool of yourself.
 
Dunzo said:
You're an idiot.
please try to act like you evolved
Dunzo said:
Right. Now that's over and done with, you're wrong. Oh so wrong.
For more than 150 years evolution has been studied, observed, and reviewed repeatedly. Yet it is still standing, and taller than ever before.
Please, I'm oh so curious, enlighten us on the rationality behind the statement "evolution is not science".
It's funny you say the evolution will be a laughing stock in the future, because creationism and intelligent design is the laughing stock of the present, and will be for a long time.
Inform yourself before making a fool of yourself.

Evolution, there are hundreds of different versions of theories of evolution. I believe more in what I call adaption. But nothing happens with out the creator

Evolution can not happen with out something starting it. Something can not out out of nothing,that is impossible. and You act like the theory is a proven fact, it is a "theory", is it possible, sure but not your theory of it......I don't believe humans come from apes, and scientist can't find the missing links. so by faith you accept the particular theory of evolution that you confess
 
biblecatholic said:
Dunzo said:
You're an idiot.
please try to act like you evolved
Dunzo said:
Right. Now that's over and done with, you're wrong. Oh so wrong.
For more than 150 years evolution has been studied, observed, and reviewed repeatedly. Yet it is still standing, and taller than ever before.
Please, I'm oh so curious, enlighten us on the rationality behind the statement "evolution is not science".
It's funny you say the evolution will be a laughing stock in the future, because creationism and intelligent design is the laughing stock of the present, and will be for a long time.
Inform yourself before making a fool of yourself.

Evolution, there are hundreds of different versions of theories of evolution. I believe more in what I call adaption. But nothing happens with out the creator

Evolution can not happen with out something starting it. Something can not out out of nothing,that is impossible. and You act like the theory is a proven fact, it is a "theory", is it possible, sure but not your theory of it......I don't believe humans come from apes, and scientist can't find the missing links. so by faith you accept the particular theory of evolution that you confess

We've been over this a thousand times in the Christianity & Science forum.

Evolution is an entirely natural process. It doesn't need a "beginning". It just happens. If you mean the origin of life, then that's abiogenesis and has been observed.

You don't understand the definition of "theory" in a scientific context. A theory is not a guess, it's an explanation for observations. In other words, a theory unites the facts. Evolutionary theory is very well supported, and that it happens is a fact. Gravity is also theory, and you're observing it right now. Are you going to reject gravity because it's a theory?

That transitional fossils are "missing" is a misconception. Here's some for your viewing pleasure:
hominids2.jpg
 
Dunzo said:
You don't understand the definition of "theory" in a scientific context. A theory is not a guess, it's an explanation for observations
.which you interpret, and others interpret those observations differently.

you can not state it as fact, you have faith that it is fact.

Dunzo said:
That transitional fossils are "missing" is a misconception.
. this is your interpretation of the information that they are not missing. Many scientist say they are.
 
biblecatholic said:
Dunzo said:
You don't understand the definition of "theory" in a scientific context. A theory is not a guess, it's an explanation for observations
.which you interpret, and others interpret those observations differently.

you can not state it as fact, you have faith that it is fact.
What nonsense! An observation might be that the sky is blue. Interpretation doesn't come into it. In the context of evolution, an observation might be that finches found in the Galapagos Islands are vastly different than finches found elsewhere. There is no room for any interpretation here, that's just how it is. A THEORY unites this observation and others like it to form an explanation.

Dunzo said:
That transitional fossils are "missing" is a misconception.
. this is your interpretation of the information that they are not missing. Many scientist say they are.
Great. Source? No evolutionary biologist (that is, someone who has actually spent a hell of a lot of time STUDYING this) believes all transitional fossils are missing. Again your idea of "interpretations" is ridiculous.
 
Please get over it.
I myself am convinced that the theory of Christianity, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in history books of the future.

I have no problem with religion, but Christianity,(as in man spawning from God) is not rational. It is a hobby that only exists in the mind of the Christian.


If you were inclined to disagree with the above section, I urge you to start making rational arguments for your case. Vague references to being wrong without substance doesn't go over well here.
 
GraceBwithU said:
Please get over it.
I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in history books of the future.

I have no problem with science, but evolution,(as in man evolving from apes) is not science. It is a hobby that only exists in the mind of the evolutionary scientist.

Great, so where's your evidence?
 
Guys. I'm not a scientist, and not an intellectual, as you can tell. But I would like to discuss these things with you in a respectful manner. Could we do this?

I believe in evolution in the sense that "things" can evolve or adapt. I do not have the definition of the exact theory(s) and what it encompasses. However I do not believe that Man evolved form an ape. I also believe that the evidence that says otherwise has to be taken on "faith" and i do not take it on that. I don't believe that that theory is proven and there are many so-called links but there are some missing.

Blessings
 
If anyone wants to truly have this conversation, there needs to be common ground when anyone discusses this issues. Otherwise it de-evolves into a debate over semantics. Which I hope is not the intent.

The first word which has to be decided on is "theory".

Theory in the scientific context means a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. [from wikipedia.org (hopefully that is acceptable for documenting, as I personally find it to be fairly accurate and written in less technical terms) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory ]

It does not follow that a theory is "just a guess". A guess assumes that you look at a dog eating its food and arbitrarily assume it is because it is cold. If it is arbitrary, than you are not making any basis for your answer except just a gut feeling. A guess is likely wrong, because there is no basis for it.

Now, you could try to falsify your claim and start adjusting the ambient temperature where the dog is kept, and see if it changes anything in regard to if the dog goes for the food. That would be testing your theory. If temp makes no significant difference in the dogs action, you could falsify your claim or theory.

Therefore a guess can be a theory, but it is illogical to assume that all theories are nothing more than arbitrary guesses. Those arbitrary guesses would be easily falsified (as exampled in the above).

You could then make a new claim, or theory. You could say that the dog goes for the food because it is hungry, basing this on the observation that you yourself like to eat when you are hungry. You could then test this. Maybe you feed the dog a big meal, and then soon afterwards, place the food in front of the dog. Now, it is likely that the dog will still eat it. They are opportunistic feeders and have learned to eat whenever food is present because they may not always get the opportunity to feed again soon. But, maybe you put the food some distance away and time how long it takes the dog to reach the food and eat it. Then, increase the pre-meal and keep timing. If it takes longer and longer for the dog to eat the food, the more it supports that the dog is eating the food based on hunger (because you are assuming the pre-meal reduces the feeling of hunger). Maybe it would even get to the point (if a large enough pre-meal is presented) where the dog shows no interest.

But you could never say that a dog eats because its hungry for absolute surety. Just with increasing surety as more and different tests are presented.

You could also say that the theory may be wrong, because we are not the dog in question, and therefore we do not even know if it feels hunger with complete surety. I in fact could suggest that the dogs knew they were being tested and wanted us to come to the conclusion and therefore were trying to fool us and skew our data.

But, what seems more likely?

Though this was a simplistic model, it portrays how a theory works in science, and why it is not a guess, and also why no one says, "This theory is proved." Just that this theory fits the evidence better than any other, or this theory has the most evidence behind it.

Does everyone agree on the definition of a scientific theory that I listed above?

Does anyone disagree?
 
which you interpret, and others interpret those observations differently.
I have yet to see a viable creationist interpretation of ERV sequences in the genome.
 
jwu said:
which you interpret, and others interpret those observations differently.
I have yet to see a viable creationist interpretation of ERV sequences in the genome.

There isn't any (so far).

So, who is all left in this discussion?
 
VaultZero4Me said:
jwu said:
which you interpret, and others interpret those observations differently.
I have yet to see a viable creationist interpretation of ERV sequences in the genome.

There isn't any (so far).

So, who is all left in this discussion?

I'm here, but I didn't really feel his original post had enough substance to motivate me to respond with much substance.

He has made it clear that he wants us to better explain the theory, but I'm inclined to think it's only done in the interest of attacking it. I'm not a fan of discussing scientific theories with someone who has no intent but attacking it in the interest of his faith or religion. It's a waste of my time if he's not going to approach the topic with an open mind.

If I'm wrong about this, then the OP can feel free to let me know.
 
judging by the lack of response, I am gonna assume this thread is dead.
 
hey guy's I do want to discuss this. But it seems to be a very disrespectful atmosphere.

I'll be back at another time

Blessings
 
biblecatholic said:
hey guy's I do want to discuss this. But it seems to be a very disrespectful atmosphere.

I'll be back at another time

Blessings

I can see where you find that in here, but again, the topic was not started off in the best manner.

See post #1
 
biblecatholic said:
hey guy's I do want to discuss this. But it seems to be a very disrespectful atmosphere.

I'll be back at another time

Blessings

I want nothing more than to have a respectful conversation about a topic. The OP did not present a respectful atmosphere, and I was merely applying respect in the deontological sense. By admittedly not understanding the basics of a position while attacking it, he invited me to legitimately attack his own position while purportedly not understanding it. This is done in a matter of fairness to illustrate a point.


I encourage you to begin a thread of your own. If you want to know more about evolution, which I myself admit am not an expert, we can investigate it together and possibly learn something.
 
VaultZero4Me said:
I can see where you find that in here, but again, the topic was not started off in the best manner.

See post #1
Jayls5 said:
I want nothing more than to have a respectful conversation about a topic. The OP did not present a respectful atmosphere, and I was merely applying respect in the deontological sense. By admittedly not understanding the basics of a position while attacking it, he invited me to legitimately attack his own position while purportedly not understanding it. This is done in a matter of fairness to illustrate a point.


I encourage you to begin a thread of your own. If you want to know more about evolution, which I myself admit am not an expert, we can investigate it together and possibly learn something.

I didn't look at the first post but now I did and I see what you are saying....people of good will can always discuss in love even in disagreement. even starting off on the wrong foot GBW is a man of good will and I know you guys are as well. so it's always good to begin again I'll be back to discuss sometime soon.

Blessings
 
GraceBwithU said:
Please get over it.
I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in history books of the future.

I have no problem with science, but evolution,(as in man evolving from apes) is not science. It is a hobby that only exists in the mind of the evolutionary scientist.

I agree. The theory of evolution is of the devil. Our ancestors were created in the image of the lord, from dust, he breathed life into our ancestors. From then on, is history. To entertain such a notion, that we evolved from monkies or chimpanzees is blasphemy/mockery of the lord.

Pagan religions worship animals and so-called scientists claim chimps have dna 95% similar to our own or so. If we were created in the lord's image, then he cannot possibly be a feces throwing, parasite infested, urine drinking animal. anything else is of the evil one.
 
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