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Mark 16:16

Do you believe that Baptism is required for salvation?

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
cj said:
Eve777 said:
To be 'saved' you need to both believe and be baptised.

And Abraham, how was he saved?

cj

Great point.

Oh…just curious…did anyone look at the link I provided?

The link:
Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

Also lets consider the following scenario:
A person just receives Jesus Christ into his heart and he heads over to the Church to get baptized. In order to get to the Church he has to cross the street. On the way to the other side of the street…BANG he is hit by a pickup truck and dies.

So answer me this question:
Was he saved or because he did not get baptized he was rejected by God and is burning in hell?
 
To be fair and give those that are diligently seeking the truth an opportunity to visit a site that affirms the necessity of baptism, here is link that will answer all your questions. http://www.bebaptized.org/
  • May God bless each of you in your search for the truth.
 
cubedbee said:
Mark 16 implies 3 classes of people

1) Those who believe and are baptized
2) Those who do not believe
3) Those who believe, but are not baptized

Only categories 1 and 2 are specifically addressed. One cannot logically conclude anything about category 3 from this verse. We must look at other passages.

Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

You can see that people in category 3) from Mark 16 are clearly saved by Romans 10:9. Belief and confession in the Lordship of Jesus is the one and only requirement for salvation. We should all be baptized upon being saved, and there is no reason why we should not be baptized barring extreme circumstances outside of our control, but it is not essential to salvation.
Thanx a lot cubedbee! For some reason I'm able to grasp the concept after you posted this. I now understand that this verse isn't implying that it is a requirement. May God continue to bless you and work through you!
 
1) Those who believe and are baptized
2) Those who do not believe
3) Those who believe, but are not baptized

Only categories 1 and 2 are specifically addressed. One cannot logically conclude anything about category 3 from this verse. We must look at other passages.
We must look at an example of one that believed but had not been baptized to answer this question. In Acts 26 we find Paul before Agrippa. Paul preached Jesus to him. In verse 27 Paul knows that Agrippa believes but Agrippa would not obey the gospel. In verse 28 Agrippa says, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a christian". Now, was Agrippa saved?
 
it seems to me that you've twisted the words on this passage just a little bit, but since i'm ready to goto bed, i won't ellaborate any further tonight.
 
I want to clarify my stance on the Baptism issue...

Is baptism required to be saved...no.
Should one be baptized once they accept Jesus Christ into their heart...YES.

In other words I agree with cubedbee's post.

Oh and I would really appreciate an answer to my scenario.

The scenario:

A person just receives Jesus Christ into his heart and he heads over to the Church to get baptized. In order to get to the Church he has to cross the street. On the way to the other side of the street…BANG he is hit by a pickup truck and dies.

Question:
Was he saved or because he did not get baptized he was rejected by God and is burning in hell?
 
Nocturnal: If you would visit the link I posted it answers that question and any other objections to baptism you may have. I read the link you provided and I ask that you do the same.
  • Mac: It seems to me that you already had your mind made up and are not really "seeking" the truth. I may be wrong but it just seems this way.
Let me make this statement that I have made at other times on this subject before again. As with Romans 10:9 and other verses that speak of faith or repentance or confession all of these are always UNTO salvation. Baptism is the only way INTO salvation. Faith, repentance and confession get you UNTO salvation (get you to the door) but baptism gets you INTO salvation (actually in the door). Don't take my word for it; look in the Bible for yourselves.
  • Let me claify that I am not teaching that baptism is the only act of obedience that saves us. Without faith, repentance and confession we cannot be saved but without baptism it is not attainable either.
 
My question was directly about the meaning of that verse.

I am sorry to hear that, we simply can not gleen a doctrine from a single verse, and that is all you are trying to do here.

The bible interprets the bible, so you have to look to the greater context of the entire scripture not just the verse and the few around it, but greater then that.

Jesus spoke of faith, and in the NT the fact we are saved by faith is clearly repeated hundreds of times.

Baptism is not nearly as often mentioned, and most the time verses used for this doctrine of baptismal regeneration, do not refere to water baptism in the first place.

My advice to you, as a pastor is to stop trying to understand the meaning of one verse, and learn the greater meaning of the NT and in that you will understand the meaning of any verse that you come accross.

A good place to do some homework on this is http://www.carm.org I think this very verse is covered quite well.

Oh, and to the person that says water baptism is not a work. It is silly to say that, if we DO IT then it is a work. Faith is not something we do but is given to us by God, very different. Apples and Oranges here.
 
It is alright to direct your statement at me directly Henry, I can handle it. :D
Oh, and to the person that says water baptism is not a work. It is silly to say that, if we DO IT then it is a work. Faith is not something we do but is given to us by God, very different. Apples and Oranges here.
Please do give me the scripture where it says that baptism is a work we do to earn salvation! As I have pointed out MANY times (and no one will comment), baptism is the work of GOD. (Col. 2:12) Faith is the work of God (John 6:27-29) so they are the same in that respect. So why accept one and reject the other?
  • How many times would you have God say the baptism is necessary? 100 times, 1000 times? All God need say it is once for it to be truth. Yet God has said in several passages that in baptism our sins are removed.
Anyway, I have said my peace on this subject and I encourage everyone to visit the link I posted and decide for themselves. I will never take man's word for anything, only God's!
 
The need is to BELIEVE and be Baptised! Baptism is for believers. No point being Baptised if not a believer! Baptism does not save!
 
Hi,

Would someone please explain to me why it was necessary for Jesus to be baptized? What did it accomplish? Can we improve on anything that Jesus did?

Charlotte
 
Mt 3:13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Burkitt comments
Here we have our Savior's solemn inauguration and public entrance upon this prophetic office, by baptism, or washing with water, according to the manner of the priests under the ceremonial law, #Ex 29:4.
Ex 29:4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the Law.
 
Nocturnal_Principal_X said:
The scenario:
A person just receives Jesus Christ into his heart and he heads over to the Church to get baptized. In order to get to the Church he has to cross the street. On the way to the other side of the street…BANG he is hit by a pickup truck and dies.

Question:
Was he saved or because he did not get baptized he was rejected by God and is burning in hell?

Answer:
Yes because of circumstance. However, the book of James is very clear IMO
2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Does this contradict what Paul preaches regarding being saved by Faith? I think not.
If given the chance, Baptism is a requirment. If being the deciding factor. God will judge us by our hearts. Why would you not be baptised??

EDIT for clarification: Yes :he is saved because of circumstance. In another situation, the answer might be "NO".
 
Henry said:
My question was directly about the meaning of that verse.

I am sorry to hear that, we simply can not gleen a doctrine from a single verse, and that is all you are trying to do here.

The bible interprets the bible, so you have to look to the greater context of the entire scripture not just the verse and the few around it, but greater then that.

Jesus spoke of faith, and in the NT the fact we are saved by faith is clearly repeated hundreds of times.

Baptism is not nearly as often mentioned, and most the time verses used for this doctrine of baptismal regeneration, do not refere to water baptism in the first place.

My advice to you, as a pastor is to stop trying to understand the meaning of one verse, and learn the greater meaning of the NT and in that you will understand the meaning of any verse that you come accross.

A good place to do some homework on this is http://www.carm.org I think this very verse is covered quite well.

Oh, and to the person that says water baptism is not a work. It is silly to say that, if we DO IT then it is a work. Faith is not something we do but is given to us by God, very different. Apples and Oranges here.
Henry, I'm sorry if i made you think i was throwing out the entire bible but that verse. If a verse says that to be saved you must believe and another says that you must believe and be baptised then you must believe and be baptised to be saved is the only conclusion that can be drawn. Having said that, however, I do realize now that Mark 16:16 was not saying that you had to be baptised. That is why I was able to throw out my original arguement that baptism was required, Collier. If you have other scipture that would back up my original arguement, than please specify. And I do not appreciate your statement that i'm not seeking the truth which would suggest that i'm more close-minded. I have grown up all my life thinking that baptism was not required for salvation, but because I'm more conserned with the truth, I was brave enough to seek help from others in making sense of this verse. Cubedbee shot down my idea of baptism as a requirement rather rapidly. Like I said though, if there are more verses that would suggest otherwise, please tell me about them.
As for what was said about u'r story in Acts last night, I'll have to get back to. I don't have a bible with be now but I'll post verse 27 and 28 out of the 26th Chapter hopefully tonight and elaborate then.
Peace be to you Henry and Collier.
 
Paul proclaims there is one baptism - Ep 4:3-7


The issue boils down to this: Is the one baptism of
Ep 4:5...

1) The baptism of the Holy Spirit?
2) Water Baptism
M
Might there actually be a connection between these
two, with the end result there being one baptism with
two elements: water and the Spirit?

I personally have been baptised in water and the Spirit, and would wonder just how serious someone was who would not do the same.



Acts 26:14
And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

In the Bible lands oxen, which are used for plowing, are kept in the furrow by means of pricking with a goad, which is a nail fixed on the end of a stick. As long as the ox goes straight down the furrow, he is not pricked with the goad. But if he starts to stray out of line, he is pricked. An ox may kick back at the plowsman, but the plowsman holds the goad so that the ox kicks right into it. Saul thought that in persecuting the church he was doing the will of God. In reality he was out of line with God and was "kicking against the pricks" of God's Will.

Some of you remind me of Paul....Get in line with God's teaching on this and forget whether you need to have it done to be saved. What difference does it make if you need it to be saved?.....just do it.... :) Cover all bases I say. :)
 
Collier said:
1) Those who believe and are baptized
2) Those who do not believe
3) Those who believe, but are not baptized

Only categories 1 and 2 are specifically addressed. One cannot logically conclude anything about category 3 from this verse. We must look at other passages.
We must look at an example of one that believed but had not been baptized to answer this question. In Acts 26 we find Paul before Agrippa. Paul preached Jesus to him. In verse 27 Paul knows that Agrippa believes but Agrippa would not obey the gospel. In verse 28 Agrippa says, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a christian". Now, was Agrippa saved?
Acts 26
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

This is the KJV. Explain how this says what you think it does.
 
Mac:
  • I was not my intention to offfend you with the remark about not seeking the truth. It just seemed that you wanted someone to reaffirm what you already believed. I am sorry it came off rude.
To explain what I meant about Agrippa, Paul spoke to him of Jesus and what was told about Him in the prophets. Paul knew that Agrippa believed what was spoken and that he believed in Jesus. Yet, both Agrippa and Paul knew he was not yet a christian. His belief was not enough!
  • As far as the example of the 3 types of people in Cubedbee's post, that is not right. There is not an implied third group (those that believe and are not baptized). To believe in Jesus is to believe in all that He has taught. To deny baptism is not to be a believer in Jesus because He said that baptism is necessary. Remember, Jesus is the Word and to not believe what it says is to not believe Jesus.
Going back to Mac's original question, here it is in a nutshell: man says faith-salvation-baptism; Jesus says faith-baptism-salvation; who will you believe?
  • For more information on proof of the necessity of baptism, please go to the link I provided and study for yourself. It answers those common objections to those who deny the necessity of baptism. If there are any objections you may still have I will answer them for you.
May God bless and again I am sorry if I have offended you.
 
Acts 26 :: King James Version (KJV)

Copyright Info.: Public Domain
Publisher Info: A Public Domain Bible | KJV at Zondervan | Zondervan


Acts 26
1 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Thou art permitted to speak for thyself. Then Paul stretched forth the hand, and answered for himself:
2 I think myself happy, king Agrippa, because I shall answer for myself this day before thee touching all the things whereof I am accused of the Jews:
3 Especially because I know thee to be expert in all customs and questions which are among the Jews: wherefore I beseech thee to hear me patiently.
4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews;
5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.
11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.
25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.
30 And when he had thus spoken, the king rose up, and the governor, and Bernice, and they that sat with them:
31 And when they were gone aside, they talked between themselves, saying, This man doeth nothing worthy of death or of bonds.
32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.
 
I do realize now that Mark 16:16 was not saying that you had to be baptised

Great to hear :) Just that in this forum we deal so many false teachings and heresy, it is easy sometimes to be deffensive. But hey I am glad to see that you were able willing and did in fact re-exmine your understanding of that verse, this is what will keep you safe from cults and false teachers. NEVER stop re-examining your ideas as you learn more and more about the Scripture.
 
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