Mary, the mother of the Lord

[donadams]

Why is eph 2:8 the absolute authority on salvation?

Why not mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Thks

 

[donadams]

From the 9th verse of Mark 16 to the end is NOT IN THE BEST MANUSCRIPTS. It is believed that they were added by a Scribe.

That being a fact, then allow me to say to you that A close look at Mark 16:16 reveals that it is not connecting baptism with salvation as the Catholic Church teaches you.

Rather, when we actually READ the Bible for ourselves, we see that the verse distinguishes between belief and salvation, and lack of belief and condemnation. The first half of the verse emphasizes belief as the means of salvation. The public expression of that belief is baptism.

The second half of the verse clearly notes "whoever does not believe will be condemned."

The contrast is clearly between belief and lack of belief, not between baptism and condemnation.

Further, the prior verse, teaches, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." It does not teach to go into all the world and baptize the whole creation. The emphasis in the surrounding context is on preaching the gospel so others will believe in Jesus and receive salvation.

Please, read the Bible and do the study and do not rely on Catholic teachings all of the time when it come to correct Bible truth.

Again.......I am always blessed to help your understanding.

First have united faith & baptism
Not faith alone

Where does scripture ever say baptism is a “public expression of faith”?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He who believes Christ and His doctrine of (((faith & baptism))) shall be saved! He who not believe Christ and His doctrine of ((( faith & baptism)) shall be damned!

Amen!

 

[Free]

First have united faith & baptism
Not faith alone

By faith alone is mentioned numerous times. In addition to the passages listed below, there is:

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,
Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
...
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
Rom 4:11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,
Rom 4:12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down)
Rom 10:7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
...
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Seems pretty clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone; no baptism involved, although a believer should be baptized to be obedient.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He who believes Christ and His doctrine of (((faith & baptism))) shall be saved!

Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (ESV)

Be very careful. First, these verses are questionable. Second, if legitimate, Jesus says only once, or at least it is only recorded once (again, in verses that are questionable), that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved." Third, if baptism is necessary for salvation, it is odd that Jesus only says "whoever does not believe will be condemned," with no mention of baptism. Being condemned is based on disbelief only.

Fourth, Jesus says elsewhere, many times and in passages that aren't questionable:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Notice that condemnation is based on disbelief only, just like in Mark 16.

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
...
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Joh 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Those such things are why John wrote:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

(All ESV.)

Notice the lack of mention of baptism as necessary for salvation.

He who not believe Christ and His doctrine of ((( faith & baptism)) shall be damned!

Where is that stated?

 

[donadams]

By faith alone is mentioned numerous times. In addition to the passages listed below, there is:

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,
Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
...
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
Rom 4:11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,
Rom 4:12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down)
Rom 10:7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Gal 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Gal 3:7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”
Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
...
Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Seems pretty clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone; no baptism involved, although a believer should be baptized to be obedient.


Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (ESV)

Be very careful. First, these verses are questionable. Second, if legitimate, Jesus says only once, or at least it is only recorded once (again, in verses that are questionable), that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved." Third, if baptism is necessary for salvation, it is odd that Jesus only says "whoever does not believe will be condemned," with no mention of baptism. Being condemned is based on disbelief only.

Fourth, Jesus says elsewhere, many times and in passages that aren't questionable:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Notice that condemnation is based on disbelief only, just like in Mark 16.

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
...
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Joh 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Those such things are why John wrote:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Joh 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

(All ESV.)

Notice the lack of mention of baptism as necessary for salvation.


Where is that stated?

Mk 16:16
Matt 28:19
Jn 3:5

Your verses refer to the body of faith “what constitutes the Christian faith” including baptism and act of personal faith!

Eph one Lord, one faith, one baptism

Thks

 

[Rodger]

First have united faith & baptism
Not faith alone

Where does scripture ever say baptism is a “public expression of faith”?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He who believes Christ and His doctrine of (((faith & baptism))) shall be saved! He who not believe Christ and His doctrine of ((( faith & baptism)) shall be damned!

Amen!

I have already responded to your question on this.

 

[Rodger]

Mk 16:16
Matt 28:19
Jn 3:5

Your verses refer to the body of faith “what constitutes the Christian faith” including baptism and act of personal faith!

Eph one Lord, one faith, one baptism

Thks

Your are incorrect my friend. Your Catholic understanding is right but your BIBLE knowledge and understanding is incorrect.

I refuse to go into your circular questions and thinking.

 

[Free]

Mk 16:16

I already addressed this.

Matt 28:19

This says nothing about baptism being required for salvation.

Jn 3:5

Again, you need to be careful in proof-texting. This is a more complex discussion Jesus is having than it appears on the surface.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (ESV)

First, Nicodemus was a Pharisee and was clearly not understanding what Jesus meant by needing to be "born again." Nicodemus thinks Jesus is talking about a literal, physical rebirth. But, Jesus brings up "born of water," which is likely an allusion to John's baptism, which was for repentance and was something the Pharisees had already rejected. So, as a Pharisee, there was something Nicodemus was missing in regards to repentance. Second, that is the only time Jesus mentions baptism and instead continues to talk of the Spirit, including saying, "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." It is being "born of the Spirit" that is the important point Jesus is making.

There is more that could be said, but what Jesus is not saying is that baptism was necessary for salvation. Based on what he says, it certainly is something that he expects his followers to do, but just like the thief on the cross, baptism doesn't save anyone, faith in Christ alone does.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (ESV)

It is the Holy Spirit who does the "washing of regeneration and renewal," not baptism.

Your verses refer to the body of faith “what constitutes the Christian faith” including baptism

No, they absolutely do not. They very clearly refer to "having faith" in Christ; to put one's trust in Jesus as Lord. This is when "faith" is used to speak of "the body of faith," the Christian faith as a whole:

Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (ESV)

and act of personal faith!

Yes, the act of putting one's faith in Christ.

Eph one Lord, one faith, one baptism

Yes, which also does not say that baptism is necessary for salvation. Again, we do it because we are to be obedient and follow the example of the early church, but it in itself does not save. The preponderance of biblical evidence is that we are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone and that baptism has no part in justification. The verses in which baptism is mentioned aren't clearly saying that baptism is necessary for justification, but that it is necessary for obedience.

 

[donadams]

I already addressed this.


This says nothing about baptism being required for salvation.


Again, you need to be careful in proof-texting. This is a more complex discussion Jesus is having than it appears on the surface.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (ESV)

First, Nicodemus was a Pharisee and was clearly not understanding what Jesus meant by needing to be "born again." Nicodemus thinks Jesus is talking about a literal, physical rebirth. But, Jesus brings up "born of water," which is likely an allusion to John's baptism, which was for repentance and was something the Pharisees had already rejected. So, as a Pharisee, there was something Nicodemus was missing in regards to repentance. Second, that is the only time Jesus mentions baptism and instead continues to talk of the Spirit, including saying, "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." It is being "born of the Spirit" that is the important point Jesus is making.

There is more that could be said, but what Jesus is not saying is that baptism was necessary for salvation. Based on what he says, it certainly is something that he expects his followers to do, but just like the thief on the cross, baptism doesn't save anyone, faith in Christ alone does.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (ESV)

It is the Holy Spirit who does the "washing of regeneration and renewal," not baptism.


No, they absolutely do not. They very clearly refer to "having faith" in Christ; to put one's trust in Jesus as Lord. This is when "faith" is used to speak of "the body of faith," the Christian faith as a whole:

Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (ESV)


Yes, the act of putting one's faith in Christ.


Yes, which also does not say that baptism is necessary for salvation. Again, we do it because we are to be obedient and follow the example of the early church, but it in itself does not save. The preponderance of biblical evidence is that we are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone and that baptism has no part in justification. The verses in which baptism is mentioned aren't clearly saying that baptism is necessary for justification, but that it is necessary for obedience.

Cherry picking eph 4:5

The Lord is necessary
The faith is necessary
Baptism not so much

Disciples made by baptism
Matt 28:19 Jn 4:1

Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Context he that does not believe the half of the verse!

He who does not believe what Christ revealed
Faith and baptism

Jn 3:5 water and the spirit is baptism

They immediately put it into practice in verse 22

Jn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Acts 2:38-39
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13

Many verses refer to a promise of God

Example
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

A promise from God is a sacred oath!

The dictionary says an oath is a sacrament

The new covenant is established on the sacraments!

Faith alone makes Christ a doctrine alone!

But Christ is our salvation in His person Lk 2:30 we need be in Christ union with Him by faith and baptism

1 cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Noah was sealed in the ark by God

We are sealed in the ark of eternal salvation by God thru baptism

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Thks

 

[Rodger]

I already addressed this.


This says nothing about baptism being required for salvation.


Again, you need to be careful in proof-texting. This is a more complex discussion Jesus is having than it appears on the surface.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (ESV)

First, Nicodemus was a Pharisee and was clearly not understanding what Jesus meant by needing to be "born again." Nicodemus thinks Jesus is talking about a literal, physical rebirth. But, Jesus brings up "born of water," which is likely an allusion to John's baptism, which was for repentance and was something the Pharisees had already rejected. So, as a Pharisee, there was something Nicodemus was missing in regards to repentance. Second, that is the only time Jesus mentions baptism and instead continues to talk of the Spirit, including saying, "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." It is being "born of the Spirit" that is the important point Jesus is making.

There is more that could be said, but what Jesus is not saying is that baptism was necessary for salvation. Based on what he says, it certainly is something that he expects his followers to do, but just like the thief on the cross, baptism doesn't save anyone, faith in Christ alone does.

Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (ESV)

It is the Holy Spirit who does the "washing of regeneration and renewal," not baptism.


No, they absolutely do not. They very clearly refer to "having faith" in Christ; to put one's trust in Jesus as Lord. This is when "faith" is used to speak of "the body of faith," the Christian faith as a whole:

Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (ESV)


Yes, the act of putting one's faith in Christ.


Yes, which also does not say that baptism is necessary for salvation. Again, we do it because we are to be obedient and follow the example of the early church, but it in itself does not save. The preponderance of biblical evidence is that we are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone and that baptism has no part in justification. The verses in which baptism is mentioned aren't clearly saying that baptism is necessary for justification, but that it is necessary for obedience.

You are 100% correct. My congratulations on being a Literal Bible teacher!

 

[Rodger]

Cherry picking eph 4:5

The Lord is necessary
The faith is necessary
Baptism not so much

Disciples made by baptism
Matt 28:19 Jn 4:1

Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Context he that does not believe the half of the verse!

He who does not believe what Christ revealed
Faith and baptism

Jn 3:5 water and the spirit is baptism

They immediately put it into practice in verse 22

Jn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Acts 2:38-39
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13

Many verses refer to a promise of God

Example
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

A promise from God is a sacred oath!

The dictionary says an oath is a sacrament

The new covenant is established on the sacraments!

Faith alone makes Christ a doctrine alone!

But Christ is our salvation in His person Lk 2:30 we need be in Christ union with Him by faith and baptism

1 cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Noah was sealed in the ark by God

We are sealed in the ark of eternal salvation by God thru baptism

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Thks

If one assumes that baptism is the difference between eternal life with God or eternal life in hell, then why is baptism never given as a requirement for salvation?

Faith is always stated as a requirement for salvation. If baptism is required for salvation, then the Holy Spirit has made a horrible mistake. If it is required, it should be mentioned every time the conditions for salvation are discussed or given.

Luke 7:50.........
"And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Notice that Jesus did not say that her faith and baptism saved her. Nor did Jesus tell her to be baptized. He said that her faith saved her. That is all!

The second passage is the most significant. We find the apostle Peter speaking,

Acts 10:43,,,,,,,,,,,
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

While Peter was still speaking . . . the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and all . . . who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also . . . Then Peter answered, ....in Acts 10:44,,,,
“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

God tells us in Acts 10:43 that Cornelius and his family were saved by faith without being baptized.

It is personally very sad to me to see intelligent people REFUSE to accept the Word of God over their denominational teachings.

You are welcome!

 

[donadams]

If one assumes that baptism is the difference between eternal life with God or eternal life in hell, then why is baptism never given as a requirement for salvation?

Faith is always stated as a requirement for salvation. If baptism is required for salvation, then the Holy Spirit has made a horrible mistake. If it is required, it should be mentioned every time the conditions for salvation are discussed or given.

Luke 7:50.........
"And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Notice that Jesus did not say that her faith and baptism saved her. Nor did Jesus tell her to be baptized. He said that her faith saved her. That is all!

The second passage is the most significant. We find the apostle Peter speaking,

Acts 10:43,,,,,,,,,,,
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

While Peter was still speaking . . . the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message and all . . . who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also . . . Then Peter answered, ....in Acts 10:44,,,,
“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

God tells us in Acts 10:43 that Cornelius and his family were saved by faith without being baptized.

It is personally very sad to me to see intelligent people REFUSE to accept the Word of God over their denominational teachings.

You are welcome!

Never? Really?
Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Rodger]

Never? Really?
Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes.....Really! Faith is always stated as the ONLY requirement for salvation in the Bible.

Please take time to read Ephesians 2:8-9.

Water Baptism is never listed in the Bible as a "requirement" of salvation.

Submission to water baptism is a requirement for obedience after salvation (Matt. 28:18-20), but it is not a prerequisite to spiritual regeneration.

IF.....IF we say and teach that water is required in order to be saved.....we are then saying that water is just as powerful as the blood of God!!!! THINK ABOUT THAT! That is what you are saying.

Personally, I think that you should do a lot more thinking and study before posting.

I have responded to your question on Mark 16:16 previously so I see no reason to address it again.
If you did not accept it then, you will not do so now.

You are welcome and please feel free to ask any Bible question and I will be blessed to help your understanding.

 

[Randy]

Never? Really?
Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Thats a true statement but whoever believes and calls on the Lord will be saved is also a true statement.

What is in agreement with both statements is FAITH.

 

[Rodger]

Thats a true statement but whoever believes and calls on the Lord will be saved is also a true statement.

What is in agreement with both statements is FAITH.

Randy, it must be considered that the longer ending of Mark, which appears as Mark 16:9-20 in most translations, is believed to be spurious by most Bible translators and commentators today. Most modern translations footnote the passage, and the NIV 2011 prints the passage in italics, further indicating doubt as to its authenticity.

Actually, and historically, that part pf Mark has been a controversial passage for almost as long as the church has been in existence.

The Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, do not contain the longer ending to the Gospel of Mark. Both of those ancient Greek manuscripts end at Mark 16:8. They are given credence because, the older the manuscript, the closer it is to the original autographs. The fewer generations of copies, the fewer opportunities for deviation, and thus an older manuscript can be assumed to be more accurate than a newer one. Since the oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9–20, many scholars doubt that these verses were in the original Gospel of Mark but were added by a scribe.

 

[Randy]

Randy, it must be considered that the longer ending of Mark, which appears as Mark 16:9-20 in most translations, is believed to be spurious by most Bible translators and commentators today. Most modern translations footnote the passage, and the NIV 2011 prints the passage in italics, further indicating doubt as to its authenticity.

Actually, and historically, that part pf Mark has been a controversial passage for almost as long as the church has been in existence.

The Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, do not contain the longer ending to the Gospel of Mark. Both of those ancient Greek manuscripts end at Mark 16:8. They are given credence because, the older the manuscript, the closer it is to the original autographs. The fewer generations of copies, the fewer opportunities for deviation, and thus an older manuscript can be assumed to be more accurate than a newer one. Since the oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9–20, many scholars doubt that these verses were in the original Gospel of Mark but were added by a scribe.

People who believe in Christ and are baptized are saved don't you think? It's a true statement. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Baptism is shown in the NT. What would be the motive to add such a statement to the NT? The fact is the statement is found in some manuscripts. Faith in Christ is the key not water baptism.

 

[Rodger]

People who believe in Christ and are baptized are saved don't you think? It's a true statement. I have no reason to believe otherwise. Baptism is shown in the NT. What would be the motive to add such a statement to the NT? The fact is the statement is found in some manuscripts. Faith in Christ is the key not water baptism.

"People who believe in Christ and are baptized are saved....".
No that is NOT a true statement.

People who believe in Jesus as the Christ by faith are saved! Period.

Baptism is NOT a requirement of salvation but is an act of obedience AFTER we accept Christ.

YES........Faith is key and the motivator and baptism is something we do after we are saved.

 

[donadams]

Yes.....Really! Faith is always stated as the ONLY requirement for salvation in the Bible.

Please take time to read Ephesians 2:8-9.

Water Baptism is never listed in the Bible as a "requirement" of salvation.

Submission to water baptism is a requirement for obedience after salvation (Matt. 28:18-20), but it is not a prerequisite to spiritual regeneration.

IF.....IF we say and teach that water is required in order to be saved.....we are then saying that water is just as powerful as the blood of God!!!! THINK ABOUT THAT! That is what you are saying.

Personally, I think that you should do a lot more thinking and study before posting.

I have responded to your question on Mark 16:16 previously so I see no reason to address it again.
If you did not accept it then, you will not do so now.

You are welcome and please feel free to ask any Bible question and I will be blessed to help your understanding.

Faith in what Jesus revealed in mk 16:16 “he who believes and is baptized shall be saved”!

Not just any faith or belief
A hindu’s belief enough?
Muslim?
Jews?
Heretics?
Native witch doctor believes!

Faith in what Jesus revealed in mk 16:16 “he who believes and is baptized shall be saved”!

He who does not believe this is condemned!

Thks

 

[Free]

Faith in what Jesus revealed in mk 16:16 “he who believes and is baptized shall be saved”!

Not just any faith or belief
A hindu’s belief enough?
Muslim?
Jews?
Heretics?
Native witch doctor believes!

Faith in what Jesus revealed in mk 16:16 “he who believes and is baptized shall be saved”!

He who does not believe this is condemned!

Thks

You're making the same mistake that you think you're pointing out. It is circular to say 'Faith in what Jesus revealed in mk 16:16 “he who believes and is baptized shall be saved”!' You're essentially saying to have faith in belief and faith in baptism. It tells us nothing about what we are to believe or whom or what we are to put our faith in. So, one can make the same argument you made, against your position:

"Not just any faith or belief
A hindu’s belief enough?
Muslim?
Jews?
Heretics?
Native witch doctor believes!"

 

[donadams]

Whats included in Jn 3:16?

“Whoseever Believes”

Thks

 

[Free]

Whats included in Jn 3:16?

“Whoseever Believes”

Thks

I'm not sure what your point is? Belief, that is faith, must have an object, whether a person or object, right?