MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

"This generation" is the parable of the fig tree, that was alive at the planting of the fig tree in 1948. It is the generation that we are living in today.

 

[rainbows]

Hello reba, I noticed your post and in your post you stated;

This topic often gets wild so, A friendly reminder this is the Bible Study forum...

We are all perfectly calm on this thread, look at my avatar.

No problems here reba!

 

[rainbows]

Matthew 24:3
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?â€

Matthew 24:34
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Two different answers to two different questions.

Which is which, you will have to read Matthew 24 and Luke 21 very, very carefully.

Otherwise, you may end up with a faulty eschatology!

 

[Stormcrow]

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

"This generation" is the parable of the fig tree, that was alive at the planting of the fig tree in 1948. It is the generation that we are living in today.

The fig tree in the Olivet Discourse is not a metaphor for Jerusalem. Luke's gospel puts Matthew in perspective:

Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you [the people to whom He was speaking, not us] see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. "So you also, when you [the people to whom He was speaking, not us] see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. "Truly I say to you, [the people to whom He was speaking, not us] this generation [the generation of those whom He was addressing!] will not pass away until all [these] things take place. Luke 21:29-32 (NASB)

The fig tree has nothing to do with Jerusalem in either this passage or those found in the OD in Matthew or Mark.


21st century evangelicals need to get over themselves and stop reading themselves into the narrative of these passages. The you here is not you!

 

[Stormcrow]

"Truly I say to you, [the people to whom He was speaking, not us] this generation [the generation of those whom He was addressing!] will not pass away until all [these] things take place. Luke 21:29-32 (NASB)

This is consistent with what He told His disciples in Matthew 16:28...

"Truly I say to you, [the people to whom He was speaking, not us] there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Be warned: if you play the transfiguration card here you will get trumped! :D

 

[Elijah674]

Hello reba, I noticed your post and in your post you stated;

This topic often gets wild so, A friendly reminder this is the Bible Study forum...

We are all perfectly calm on this thread, look at my avatar.

No problems here reba!

____________

Just wondering if 'this generation will pass?' This keeps poping up here from Reba on this thread also?? Kind of a distraction.

<li class="navbit">Christian Discussion<li class="navbit">End Times/Bible Prophecy<li class="navbit lastnavbit"> MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

 

[rainbows]

Preterism

Strong's defines "generation": genea: race, family, generation.

So there are three possible meanings for generation.
In addition, there is also the wider contextual
force bearing upon the choice.

Let's refer to a passage in Luke to highlight that
a strict, narrow meaning for generation may be
unsuitable. We will assume that "generation" only
can mean "this generation, you and me currently,
those present now".

Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed
from the foundation of the world, may be required
of this generation (those presently here);

There is a problem with this restricted meaning of "generation".
Obviously, it cannot be implying that the whole punishment
for slaying the prophets rests on only those in the present, this
current generation. To this end, Jesus declares over and over again that
‘this generation’ in question to be a ‘wicked and adulterous generation’
which also included their fathers. Luke 11:50 does not make sense
if the present sense of generation is employed.

Again, we will examine another verse and seek the context
of "generation".

Matthew 17:17
And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation,
how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you?
Bring him here to Me.”

So there was only one "unbelieving and perverted" generation.
This current generation! Most certainly Jesus was not referring
to only those alive in His time. This meaning of generation is the more
general definition of "race", all generations of the Jews. What Jesus
spoke was as applicable to any generation past, present, or future.
Israel, past, present and future.

In another verse below.

Matthew 24:34
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Only those Jews alive at the present. If that be the case then
up to 50% would have been dead before the temple was destroyed.
Thus, it must precisely mean those still breathing at the destruction
of the temple. It is impossible to chose the restricted definition.
Race is strongly warranted, race will satisfy the requirements.

The Jewish race is still present and yet "all" is still being fulfilled.

The Jewish race will not pass away until all these things take place.

I prefer the Jewish race to the current breathing Jewish hearers of Jesus.

When the substitution of race is used the text flows smoothly.

Hey, stormcrow I am the one shooting, just keep dancing boy, yeeha.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I keep encountering this scripture in personal bible study and my only interpretation of it came from the Jehovahs Witnesses whose leadership was humiliated as God promised they always will be, because they got it wrong. They taught me that this period of time Jesus was talking about began in 1914 (WW1) and that generation wouldn't pass away...when it clearly has by now. That teaching led them to predict the end of the world multiple times and they continue to say it's soon.

That bold part makes it sound like you are talking about every bible-literalist pastor I have ever listened to! Nothing unique about the JW's - they may be wrong, but they are not alone in their 'wrongness'.

 

[n2thelight]

Mark 13:28 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:"

You have to know a little about agriculture to understand the teachings of our Heavenly Father. You don't plant a fig tree, you set out shoots, and it is from that shoot that the tree is formed and it then brings forth leaves. Those leaves are the new growth, meaning that this shoot is yet tender. In this state, this fig tree will not produce any fruit. This particular fig tree produces both the good and the bad figs, that we read of in Jeremiah 24, about the two baskets of figs. Remember that one basket set was of Good figs, and the other basked was Bad figs.

Jeremiah 24 is a parable of the fig tree, and is one of the prime roots for the parable. When Jesus Christ told His disciples in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 13 of how it would be in the time of the end, in the last days, He told us to learn the parable of the fig tree. We are to learn it because within it is much wisdom that will come against those that live in the time of the end of this earth age of the flesh.

Jeremiah 24:1 "The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon."

We see the parable starts with two baskets of figs sitting in front of the temple in Jerusalem. We see that this captivity has already taken place, with the people, the king and all the leaders of the people already gone into Babylon. The parable that is given here is to let us know that the king of Babylon is coming.

The king of Babylon of the end times is well documented in the Book of Revelation, and in Revelation 9:11 he is identified. "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

In Revelation 12:7-9 we are told his other names, as well as when he shall arrive. "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," [7] "And prevailed not, neither was there place found any more in heaven." [8] "And the great dragon was cast out, old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels," [9] So we see the king that is coming as part of this parable is none other then Satan, who is called Abaddon in the Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek tongue.

We will see the king of Babylon of the book of Revelation, and that entire Book was written to our generation, the generation of the fig tree. When Satan comes, he will come posing as the true Christ, and that is why he is called the Antichrist. Antichrist fully translated means "instead of Christ [Jesus]". That means that when Satan does come, he is going to claim that he is the true Christ, before the temple of God in Jerusalem. Satan is called the king of Babylon.

Well this parable of the fig tree is a simple story that will tell us exactly what will take place. Picture a temple in Jerusalem, with two baskets of figs sitting on the steps before the temple. That is the setting.

Notice also that it names the name "Jeconiah", and we know him by the name of Jehoiachin. Remember back a few chapters, God changed his name because of his evil. The name "Jehoiachin" means, "one whom God appoints". Jeconiah means "one whom God established". It is saying that God put him there in captivity.

Jeremiah 24:2 "One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad."

When you go into the horticulture of the figs, we are talking about goat figs here. The male tree. We know that this tree was set out in the year 1948 when Judah only returned to Jerusalem to establish the tiny nation of Israel. And with them came the very good figs, and the very bad figs.

Jeremiah 24:3 "Then said the LORD unto me, What seesth thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil."

God told Jeremiah to look at the two baskets and tell Him what he was seeing. You know what you see, it's the temple of God, with the king of Babylon, and there setting in front of it all were these two baskets of figs, (one basket of good figs and the other of bad figs). This parable will take you all the way back to the beginning in the Garden of Eden. when you had "the tree of Life", who was Jesus Christ, and the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", who was Satan the Serpent. The figs came into the garden of Eden after the sin where Eve was deceived.

This is all part of what Christ meant when He said for us to "learn the parable of the fig tree." It is all part of what is concerning the year 1948.

Matthew 24:32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"

Matthew 24:33 "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

All those things that Jesus had just said would come to pass before His return, Jesus said the generation that saw the "parable of the fig tree" would witness all these events, that is why we are to learn the parable of the fig tree.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Those that call themselves Jews but are not,are the bad figs,living in Israel to this day.....

 

[Stormcrow]

There is a problem with this restricted meaning of "generation".
Obviously, it cannot be implying that the whole punishment
for slaying the prophets rests on only those in the present, this
current generation.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!"
One of the lawyers *said to Him in reply, "Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too."

I had no idea scribes, Pharisees, and lawyers were a race. Who knew?

Preterism

Strawman.

Hey, stormcrow I am the one shooting, just keep dancing boy, yeeha.

If I had known you were going to make this personal, I wouldn't have bothered engaging you in rational discussion.

It's a mistake I won't repeat.

 

[Stormcrow]

You have to know a little about agriculture to understand the teachings of our Heavenly Father.

What do you have to know about English to understand this:

Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; Luke 21:29 (NASB)

Or maybe, just maybe, studying up on "the Larch" might help?

[video=youtube;ug8nHaelWtc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8nHaelWtc[/video]

 

[Stormcrow]

"AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM. Luke 1:50 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

Same Greek word "genea" in both verses. Does "race" make sense in both?

And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" Acts 2:40 (NASB)

Same Greek word "genea" in Acts 2:40. Didn't know an entire race could be "perverse." Didn't know Peter was a racist. Who knew?

"For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; Acts 13:36 (NASB)

Same Greek word "genea." Didn't know David belonged to a race of his very own. : Yep, a real "one-of-a-kind." Go figure.

so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, Philippians 2:15 (NASB)

Same Greek...ah, you know it by now. Looks like Paul joined Peter in using racist epithets.

So, given that generation means "the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time" in the rest of the Bible, doesn't it stand to reason this word "generation" would mean the same thing when applied to its use in the gospels?

When people must change the plain meaning of commonly used words to support a particular view of scripture, then the doctrine they espouse is not only wrong, it's a corrupting influence.

 

[rainbows]

Hello stormcrow.

If I had known you were going to make this personal, I wouldn't have bothered engaging you in rational discussion. It's a mistake I won't repeat.

This is never personal stormcrow, just having some fun.

If you are sensitive I will not joke.

In answer to your last post.

"AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM. Luke 1:50 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

Same Greek word "genea" in both verses. Does "race" make sense in both?

Like I said before stormcrow there are two separate domains contained
within Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Two questions answered by two
separate answers. Luke 21 is clearer in describing the two separate
events.

The meaning that a single generation is involved in the context applies
strictly to God's judgement upon Israel. Within one life time, one generation
the temple will be dismantled, this happened. No problem there, genea is
generation not race.

There is also the second domain of the end of the era of the Gentiles.
This occurs much later, the Gospel is taken to the whole world.
Signs appear in the heavens, peace and safety etc.
This is the race meaning of genea.

It is sound stormcrow surely you can see it.

I can see preterism in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 but I also
see the two different references to two separate judgements.

You must be able to see both versions, surely.

See no joke here, you will have to forgive me.

 

[jasoncran]

Agreed with your point Jason. However, it has been my experience that most who study too hard don't seek from The Master the revealing of himself. I firmly believe that the daily walk presents a wealth of knowledge.
Father, not Friar Matt, I am not part of the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, or Augustinians. The term for Friar is used most exclusively with those orders.
You and I could hang out and have awesome fellowship my man.

ok i wasnt sure. yes as a vet and a christian. pm me there may be something you could help me with and i you.

 

[Stormcrow]

Like I said before stormcrow there are two separate domains contained
within Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Two questions answered by two
separate answers. Luke 21 is clearer in describing the two separate
events.

Not at all, but as I have neither the time nor inclination right now to deal with this, I will simply direct you to this link for further reading:

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/eschatology/what_is_the_preterist_view.htm

 

[watchman333]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are all prophetic chapters answering the same question, What shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world? It is logical therefore, since the world has not ended, that He was speaking of a future generation which I believe to be this one. He then describes for His disciples what we should be looking for in that final generation, such as comparing us to the days of Noah (the fallen angels will be mating again) and giving us the parable of the fig tree so that we would recognize that generation He is speaking of. Now, if we understand that the parable is centered in Jeremiah 24, we know that the 2 baskets of figs set before the temple are the Israelis and the Palestinians. We can then look at current events and appreciate the mercy of Christ for giving us warning. I hope we are all watching for in my opinion, the generation that shall not pass is 64 years old. Bless the LORD.

 

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are all prophetic chapters answering the same question, What shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world? It is logical therefore, since the world has not ended, that He was speaking of a future generation which I believe to be this one. He then describes for His disciples what we should be looking for in that final generation, such as comparing us to the days of Noah (the fallen angels will be mating again) and giving us the parable of the fig tree so that we would recognize that generation He is speaking of. Now, if we understand that the parable is centered in Jeremiah 24, we know that the 2 baskets of figs set before the temple are the Israelis and the Palestinians. We can then look at current events and appreciate the mercy of Christ for giving us warning. I hope we are all watching for in my opinion, the generation that shall not pass is 64 years old. Bless the LORD.

Hello watchman,for the most part I agree with your post,here's where I don't...

I think the fallen angels will be spiritual rather than physical, as during Noah's time....

I also feel the bad figs are not the Palestinians as both the good an bad figs are now in Jerusalem...The bad,evil figs are those that call themselves Jews but are not,as per Rev.....

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

 

[rainbows]

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this race will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, the Jews will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

A number of possible variations will fit, I do prefer this race.

Whether you like it or not, genea can mean either.

Context in the above is impossible to determine.

And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" Acts 2:40 (NASB)

Well does this verse not say it all.

All civilizations were and are perverse, corrupt, and oppressive, "be saved from this perverse race" could well apply.

There is not a definite fit in either of the passages.

 

[Stormcrow]

The Greek word "genea" can mean generation or it can mean race. In every verse I cited the translators chose the English word "generation" which doesn't even connote race.

gen·er·a·tion/ˌjenəˈrāSHən/Noun:

1. All of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively: "one of his generation's finest songwriters".
2. The average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children grow up and have children of their own.

You can't cherry pick meanings out of the Greek that aren't there in the English, and the English word used is "generation" as defined above.

 

[rainbows]

Not cherry picking stormcrow.

Strong's;

genea: race, family, generation​

Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Short Definition: a generation
Definition: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.
Word Origin
from ginomai

Definition
race, family, generation
NASB Word Usage
generation (32), generations (10), kind (1).