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savedbygrace57
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I believe that this present generation will not pass away until all be fulfilled ! And this would be the one Christ refers to !
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MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?
- Thread starter Divinyl
- Start date
watchman333
Member
Hi n2the night,
As it is written, Satan was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him Rev. 12.9 The reason I think they will be mating is because of our Lord's own words, it will be just like in the days of Noah, and that is what happened then. We will see. I agree with you about the Palestinians, not all of them are the bad figs and not all of the Israelis are the good figs. Only the Lord could straighten out that mess! It does however, tell us where to look insofar as the Lord's parable. Jerusalem is the place to watch prophecy unfold. By the way, very few people understand Rev.2.9 & 3.9 but you are correct, it is those who say they are Judean's but are not, and do lie, that Lord Jesus is speaking of. I did not want to mention that because I was afraid it might confuse people. Thanks for the feedback. Bless the LORD.
As it is written, Satan was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him Rev. 12.9 The reason I think they will be mating is because of our Lord's own words, it will be just like in the days of Noah, and that is what happened then. We will see. I agree with you about the Palestinians, not all of them are the bad figs and not all of the Israelis are the good figs. Only the Lord could straighten out that mess! It does however, tell us where to look insofar as the Lord's parable. Jerusalem is the place to watch prophecy unfold. By the way, very few people understand Rev.2.9 & 3.9 but you are correct, it is those who say they are Judean's but are not, and do lie, that Lord Jesus is speaking of. I did not want to mention that because I was afraid it might confuse people. Thanks for the feedback. Bless the LORD.
Stormcrow
Member
It's used 42 times in the NASB to denote generation(s) and once to denote "kind."
If that isn't cherry picking, I don't know what is.
Again, the translators used the English word "generation" because it better fit the context of the passages where it was used. You, however, want to use a single instance of its other meaning in the Greek to change the English meaning throughout the entire Bible!
If you get nothing else understand this: translators used "generation" which carries no meaning of the word "race" at all. None. So not only do you have to explain why every English language Bible uses the word "generation" instead of "race", you have to explain why they did so against all reason according to you.
Good luck.
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Cherry picking, am I stormcrow.
I guess you would be aware that the NASB is translated
with an emphasis on "literal". That is why it is considered
a standard for other translations. Are there weaknesses
within the translation of the NASB, read the following.
[SIZE=+2][/SIZE][SIZE=+2]SOME WEAKNESSES OF THE NASB[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]#1[/SIZE] --- Some feel that the NASB reflects a premillennial preference in some passages of Scripture. For example: Isaiah 2:2 and Micah 4:1 read, "Now it will come about that in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains, and will be raised above the hills; and all the nations will stream to it." The word "as" is not actually in the text; it is the word "on" (which the NASB admits in a footnote in both places). Some have regarded this as reflecting a premillenial bias.
Additionally, when the word "genea" (meaning "a generation of mankind") appears, the NASB will often place in a footnote an alternate meaning of "race."
Mark 13:30 reads, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." The implication of the footnote is that the Jewish race is really intended here.
I guess you would be aware that the NASB is translated
with an emphasis on "literal". That is why it is considered
a standard for other translations. Are there weaknesses
within the translation of the NASB, read the following.
[SIZE=+2][/SIZE][SIZE=+2]SOME WEAKNESSES OF THE NASB[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]#1[/SIZE] --- Some feel that the NASB reflects a premillennial preference in some passages of Scripture. For example: Isaiah 2:2 and Micah 4:1 read, "Now it will come about that in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains, and will be raised above the hills; and all the nations will stream to it." The word "as" is not actually in the text; it is the word "on" (which the NASB admits in a footnote in both places). Some have regarded this as reflecting a premillenial bias.
Additionally, when the word "genea" (meaning "a generation of mankind") appears, the NASB will often place in a footnote an alternate meaning of "race."
Mark 13:30 reads, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." The implication of the footnote is that the Jewish race is really intended here.
- NOTE --- One should always be careful of marginal notes and alternate readings. Although a great many of these are good, they are not always completely reliable. Remember that these are opinions and insights of mere fallible men, and although they may be correct 99 out of 100 times, there is always that "margin of error."
Margin of error stormcrow!
Translated with a premillenial bias.
I have always preferred the NASB but
I have to be mindful that accuracy is a very difficult
task, wider context is preferred.
Stormcrow
Member
Translated "generation" in the American Standard Version:
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (ASV)
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Matthew 24:34 (ASV)
The father of modern dispensationalism translated it "generation":
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (Darby)
Verily I say to you, This generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place. Matthew 24:34 (Darby)
The English Standard Version translates it "generation":
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (ESV)
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (ESV)
God's Word translates it "generation":
Jesus replied, “You unbelieving and corrupt generation! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me!” Matthew 17:17 (GW)
I can guarantee this truth: The people living now will be held accountable for all these things. Matthew 23:36 (GW)
“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (GW)
(Even the God's Word paraphrase gets it right!)
Ooops! Let's not forget the King James!:
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (KJV)
Verily I say unto you, This generationshall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34 (KJV)
And his little brother, the New King James:
Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (NKJV)
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NKJV)
And finally, the literal translation that needs no introduction: Young's Literal translation!
verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (YLT)
Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass. Matthew 24:34 (YLT)
And that is just the tiniest of samples from these books! Every translator of the Greek that has translated these Bibles translated the word genera "generation" and now you come along to say that they are all wrong???
Can you even read Greek without a Strong's number behind it???
Now, as if that weren't enough, here is what Eusebius says about that "generation":
The last siege of the Jews after Christ.
...for after the ascension of our Saviour, the Jews, in addition to their wickedness against him, were now incessantly plotting mischief against his apostles. First, they slew Stephen by stoning him, next James the son of Zebedee, and the brother of John, by beheading, and finally James, who first obtained the episcopal seat at Jerusalem, after the ascension of our Saviour, and was slain in the manner before related. But the rest of the apostles who were harassed in innumerable ways, with a view to destroy them, and driven from the land of Judea, had gone forth to preach the gospel to all nations, relying upon the aid of Christ, when he said, "Go ye, teach all nations in my name."
The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella. Here, those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles, finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers from the earth.
Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.
Are there still Jews in the world? If so, then it wasn't an entire race that was destroyed in Jerusalem, but an entire generation lost for its sin, just as Jesus predicted!
End of discussion!
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (ASV)
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Matthew 24:34 (ASV)
The father of modern dispensationalism translated it "generation":
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (Darby)
Verily I say to you, This generation will not have passed away until all these things shall have taken place. Matthew 24:34 (Darby)
The English Standard Version translates it "generation":
Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (ESV)
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (ESV)
God's Word translates it "generation":
Jesus replied, “You unbelieving and corrupt generation! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me!” Matthew 17:17 (GW)
I can guarantee this truth: The people living now will be held accountable for all these things. Matthew 23:36 (GW)
“I can guarantee this truth: This generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (GW)
(Even the God's Word paraphrase gets it right!)
Ooops! Let's not forget the King James!:
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (KJV)
Verily I say unto you, This generationshall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34 (KJV)
And his little brother, the New King James:
Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (NKJV)
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NKJV)
And finally, the literal translation that needs no introduction: Young's Literal translation!
verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (YLT)
Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass. Matthew 24:34 (YLT)
And that is just the tiniest of samples from these books! Every translator of the Greek that has translated these Bibles translated the word genera "generation" and now you come along to say that they are all wrong???
Can you even read Greek without a Strong's number behind it???
Now, as if that weren't enough, here is what Eusebius says about that "generation":
The last siege of the Jews after Christ.
...for after the ascension of our Saviour, the Jews, in addition to their wickedness against him, were now incessantly plotting mischief against his apostles. First, they slew Stephen by stoning him, next James the son of Zebedee, and the brother of John, by beheading, and finally James, who first obtained the episcopal seat at Jerusalem, after the ascension of our Saviour, and was slain in the manner before related. But the rest of the apostles who were harassed in innumerable ways, with a view to destroy them, and driven from the land of Judea, had gone forth to preach the gospel to all nations, relying upon the aid of Christ, when he said, "Go ye, teach all nations in my name."
The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella. Here, those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles, finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers from the earth.
Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 85-87.
Are there still Jews in the world? If so, then it wasn't an entire race that was destroyed in Jerusalem, but an entire generation lost for its sin, just as Jesus predicted!
End of discussion!
jasoncran
Member
rainbows. you cant link the gospel to some future restoration of isreal when all that is mentioned is isreal's judgment. that is why im not a dispy.im tend to be amil as i havent read the original chialism taught by the apostles. but really if one is honest. one cant know the bible and figure it all out.sometimes i use the word panmillenialist. which means God is in control and it will pan his way and in his timing.
Richasher777
Member
A generation in times length referred fom the Jewish old testament is 40 years.
E
Elijah674
Guest
Re: MATT 2:34 ....
Originally Posted by Stan53
The verse is Matthew 24:34, and yes, "this generation" is the generation that sees all the things Jesus mentioned in the whole previous part of this chapter. He is referring here to His second coming and the tribulation, spoken of in Revelation.
A generation in this context would be between 50 and 70 years. Acts 13:36 defines a generation, as the time David lived and served God's purpose for His people. David died when he was 70. My generation are all up to around 60 now. It's not accurate, but then I don't think God wants us to be living for a particular day, He just wants us to DAILY live for Him.
_____________
Rich says:
A generation in times length referred fom the Jewish old testament is 40 years.
_____________
Does it make a difference the length of time? I think as does Stan, somewhat?;) Except it is inclusive with all of these things being done.
Both Christ & Paul state the God will 'make short the closing' work. And Clearly Matt. 24:14 will find the Closing End by the 666 testing worldwide as Eccl. 3:15 Documents. Some might even find Matt. 10:23 with an END time Truth? Remember that Christ was there speaking so it was meant for when??
--Elijah
The verse is Matthew 24:34, and yes, "this generation" is the generation that sees all the things Jesus mentioned in the whole previous part of this chapter. He is referring here to His second coming and the tribulation, spoken of in Revelation.
A generation in this context would be between 50 and 70 years. Acts 13:36 defines a generation, as the time David lived and served God's purpose for His people. David died when he was 70. My generation are all up to around 60 now. It's not accurate, but then I don't think God wants us to be living for a particular day, He just wants us to DAILY live for Him.
_____________
Rich says:
A generation in times length referred fom the Jewish old testament is 40 years.
_____________
Does it make a difference the length of time? I think as does Stan, somewhat?;) Except it is inclusive with all of these things being done.
Both Christ & Paul state the God will 'make short the closing' work. And Clearly Matt. 24:14 will find the Closing End by the 666 testing worldwide as Eccl. 3:15 Documents. Some might even find Matt. 10:23 with an END time Truth? Remember that Christ was there speaking so it was meant for when??
--Elijah
smaller
Member
Generation, singular tense.
Most believers only see what they see with flesh eyes, meaning they try to place that term only upon various Generations of man, to work it down to singular tense.
I would point out the obvious, knowing that flesh eyes won't see it anyway. That's just the way it goes with such eyes.
In case anyone missed it Jesus showed matters in Israel that were not shown prior.
What was shown? It's on nearly every page of the New Testament Gospels!
Jesus showed openly that there were 'wicked spirits' in vast numbers of people. He 'divided' those workers from the people and cast them out, rebuked them, condemned THEM and spoke of their forthcoming destruction.
So, still seeing only MAN? Why? There is much better sight to be had.
There has been an evil generation, singular tense, in play from day 1 of Adam. That 'generation' has not yet passed away to this day.
Yes, they are in fact still standing here. Those same 'wicked ones.'
There is your generation O flesh eye. Yet you will not and can not 'see it.'
If you see that the tempter, yes that wicked one or any of his ilk to tempt you in mind and heart as well, you might even see that generation is much closer to YOU than you see.
But you see O flesh eye, that fact is not allowed by them to be seen as such.
There is more going on than meets such eyes. The wicked generation was detailed long ago in the Old Testament in many places. But it was Jesus who revealed 'them' openly. And the people wondered!
Mark 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
Put this fact in any of your 'end times' scenario's and your sights will change dramatically. Put the fact closer to home and your own LIFE will change dramatically.
And you will also laugh at all the other guesswork.
enjoy!
smaller
Most believers only see what they see with flesh eyes, meaning they try to place that term only upon various Generations of man, to work it down to singular tense.
I would point out the obvious, knowing that flesh eyes won't see it anyway. That's just the way it goes with such eyes.
In case anyone missed it Jesus showed matters in Israel that were not shown prior.
What was shown? It's on nearly every page of the New Testament Gospels!
Jesus showed openly that there were 'wicked spirits' in vast numbers of people. He 'divided' those workers from the people and cast them out, rebuked them, condemned THEM and spoke of their forthcoming destruction.
So, still seeing only MAN? Why? There is much better sight to be had.
There has been an evil generation, singular tense, in play from day 1 of Adam. That 'generation' has not yet passed away to this day.
Yes, they are in fact still standing here. Those same 'wicked ones.'
There is your generation O flesh eye. Yet you will not and can not 'see it.'
If you see that the tempter, yes that wicked one or any of his ilk to tempt you in mind and heart as well, you might even see that generation is much closer to YOU than you see.
But you see O flesh eye, that fact is not allowed by them to be seen as such.
There is more going on than meets such eyes. The wicked generation was detailed long ago in the Old Testament in many places. But it was Jesus who revealed 'them' openly. And the people wondered!
Mark 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
Put this fact in any of your 'end times' scenario's and your sights will change dramatically. Put the fact closer to home and your own LIFE will change dramatically.
And you will also laugh at all the other guesswork.
enjoy!
smaller
This statement by Jesus occurs in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:31.
Here Jesus is talking about the end times and the Great tribulation. The generation that sees the Second Coming of Christ is the generation that will not pass away.
Now my generation is about 60 years old now and a new generation happens about every 20-30 years and lasts about 70-80 years. Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises Blesings to those that hear or read the words. I suggest you start reading it to give you some perspective of the end times. When I was 20, I thought it could happen anyday, but now that I'm almost 60, I see that Peter understood when he wrote in 2Peter 3:9; The Lord is not late in fulfilling his promise, as some regard lateness, but is patient toward you, not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance. MRI
Stormcrow
Member
The promise of His second coming was made to His disciples...
"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels , and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS . "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom ." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)
And to Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin...
Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER , and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN ." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)
And to the twelve tribes of Israel...
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (Darby)
It was not made to us living 2,000 years later!
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smaller
Member
Entirely dependent on 'who' one hears Jesus addressing.
Jesus addressed unseen entities by the thousands in the N.T. Gospels. He cast out devils nearly continuously and also addressed same in the Pharisees and even in the disciples.
There are other matters to view in the above rather than 'just people.'
The entire view of full preterism sees nothing along these lines:
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Full preterism looks at the people of Israel, 70a.d. and not the 'powers' that drove them to into judgment and scattering.
s
E
Elijah674
Guest
Re: MATT 2:34 ....
Originally Posted by Stan53
The verse is Matthew 24:34, and yes, "this generation" is the generation that sees all the things Jesus mentioned in the whole previous part of this chapter. He is referring here to His second coming and the tribulation, spoken of in Revelation.
A generation in this context would be between 50 and 70 years. Acts 13:36 defines a generation, as the time David lived and served God's purpose for His people. David died when he was 70. My generation are all up to around 60 now. It's not accurate, but then I don't think God wants us to be living for a particular day, He just wants us to DAILY live for Him.
_____________
Rich says:
A generation in times length referred fom the Jewish old testament is 40 years.
_____________
Does it make a difference the length of time? I think as does Stan, somewhat?;) Except it is inclusive with all of these things being done.
Both Christ & Paul state the God will 'make short the closing' work. And Clearly Matt. 24:14 will find the Closing End by the 666 testing worldwide as Eccl. 3:15 Documents. Some might even find Matt. 10:23 with an END time Truth? Remember that Christ was there speaking so it was meant for when??
--Elijah
Me again:
Think
what could have been done in Acts with only a few! if seen on populated earth of today by satalite through their persecution & the latter rain again fortold! (and the Eccl. 3:15's required repeat of Matt. 24:14!)
Sinthesis
Member
Clearly from the context of scripture 'this' generation does pass away, just not until 'these things' have happened. Heaven and earth pass away, only Jesus' words don't pass away. But how could Heaven pass away? Maybe the word "Heaven" does not mean what you have always presumed it to mean. Surely you recognize that there is more than one accepted definition of the word "Earth".
smaller
Member
There is a certain sect that no matter what information is attempted to be exchanged, the only thing that comes out of their lips is "I retain my salvation through Saturday Sabbath and not eating pork chops." It is nearly pointless to try and communicate otherwise.
Programs locked and loaded. Taped reruns and repeats in the loop. After a lifetime of hearing that what would one expect to hear anyway?
Not saying that there isn't other types of programs running to the same net effect either, just on some other forms of basis/bias.
I appreciate your scripture quote at the bottom of your post. Very appropriate to this subject matter.
Not being locked and loaded will afford wider measures of examinations.
s
duari91
Member
Matthew 24:36 "However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the SON himself. Only the Father knows"
Either the bible was mistranslated, or Jesus meant something indirect by saying "some of those who are standing here will not taste death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom." Jesus doesn't contradict himself, and as I showed you in Matt 24:36, he said NO ONE but the FATHER knows the time. So, how would Jesus know the time if he admitted that he himself doesn't know the time? There are prophecies which have yet to take place to fulfill the second coming.
Rev 9:15-16 - The great war that will kill a 3rd of man - Has yet to happen
Rev 11:1-2 - Jerusalem has not been occupied for 42 months. It has been destroyed, NOT occupied, there is a difference. - Has yet to happen
Rev 11:3-12 - Ministry of two witnesses to rise from the dead - Has yet to happen
Rev 13 - The mark of the beast has yet to be implemented. We have never had the technology to track people with a mark until now. - Has yet to happen
If all of these events took place in 70 A.D. it would be clear to all christians(as the books in the bible). It's not. It is speculation at best. If these events actually happened, they would not be hiding in the history books.
Experience - History Major
It was made to show He would rise from the dead. That is when He came in His Kingdom. The second coming is a separate time. Sounds like you don't believe in the Revelation of John, or even the prophecy of Jesus about the sheep and the goats.