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MATT 2:34 "This generation will not pass away" ... What did Jesus mean?

It was made to show He would rise from the dead. That is when He came in His Kingdom.
"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels , and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS . "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom ." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

This passage associates His second coming with judgment. Was Israel judged the day He rose from the dead?

Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER , and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN ." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

Did Jesus “come with the clouds of heaven” the day He rose from the dead? If not, then this verse is referring to something other than His resurrection.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (Darby)

Did all the tribes of Israel lament the day He rose from the dead? No. In fact the Sanhedrin was bribing Roman guards to say that His disciples had stolen His body!

These verses are not promising His resurrection. They are all set in the context of His second coming which is when He said He would “come into His kingdom.”

Furthermore, based on these verses, every writer of the New Testament looked forward to His second coming in their lifetimes! Here are just a few of these passages written after He had risen from the dead and after the Holy Spirit was sent:

I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign-- 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT)

having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Acts 24:15 (YLT)

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:8 (NASB)

Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:9 (NASB)

But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 (NASB)

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11 (NASB)

in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3 (NASB)

~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested; Hebrews 9:26 (YLT)

Finally, Luke’s gospel summarizes the intent of Christ’s words to His disciples 2,000 years ago so clearly and precisely, that we have no excuse for misunderstanding it:

"But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you (not us living 2,000 years later) may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36 (NASB)

Why would Jesus Christ Himself speak these words to His disciples if His second coming wouldn't happen for at least another 2,000 years?

(No "snarks" were used or harmed in the making of this post. This post is certified 100% snark safe!) :D
 
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Sounds like you don't believe in the Revelation of John, or even the prophecy of Jesus about the sheep and the goats.
Actually, I do believe quite literally in the words of Christ as spoken to His disciples, not only in the gospels but in Revelation.

I just don't believe them the way you do.
 
If all of these events took place in 70 A.D. it would be clear to all christians(as the books in the bible). It's not. It is speculation at best. If these events actually happened, they would not be hiding in the history books.

Experience - History Major

Then as a history major, you might find the works of Tacitus, Josephus, Tertullian, Eusebius, and even the book of Acts (to name a few) enlightening.
 
It isn't a landslide, but I'd put my money on Stormcrow for the win in this thread. :thumbsup

For example:
"Some standing here will not taste death until...." hard words to argue with.
 
Then as a history major, you might find the works of Tacitus, Josephus, Tertullian, Eusebius, and even the book of Acts (to name a few) enlightening.

Of course, but to ignore nearly the entire book of Revelations, as well as what Jesus himself said must be enlightening as well.

Can you please answer my inquisition?

Where was (in history) the great war that killed a 3rd of man?

Why would Jesus contradict himself? Only the father knows when these things will happen, not even the SON himself. If Jesus was truly talking about the 2nd coming, then he was obviously speculating as he himself did not know. OR he was speaking of something else entirely. Jesus doesn't contradict, so that statement is invalid.

Do you discredit John? In fact, he wrote Revelations after 90 A.D (20 years after the supposed "2nd coming") that is a historical fact. Furthermore, because John wrote this after these events, why were the written events in revelations spoken towards the future?

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you not choosing to only believe some of the bible and not all of it? I am sorry, but that is unacceptable. It's not up to us to believe some of it. God wouldn't have had Revelations put in the bible if it were nonsense.

To be honest, I know all of the answers to the questions that I asked. I have studied all of it quite extensively. Just trying to prove a major point, because it is getting out of hand. Misinformation is being spread about like a wildfire. The bible warns us about this.
 
Of course, but to ignore nearly the entire book of Revelations, as well as what Jesus himself said must be enlightening as well.

I don't ignore the book of Revelation. I wrote a study for chapter 1 here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40550

I have also written commentaries on other passages from it here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41283

and here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40957&p=614535&viewfull=1#post614535

and here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=35460&p=530926&viewfull=1#post530926

and here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42491&p=649651&viewfull=1#post649651

to name a few.

Take some time to read through them before you assert that I'm "ignoring" Revelation.
 
Do you discredit John? In fact, he wrote Revelations after 90 A.D (20 years after the supposed "2nd coming") that is a historical fact.

You might want to check that fact a little more closely. Nothing in the New Testament was written after 68 AD.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you not choosing to only believe some of the bible and not all of it? I am sorry, but that is unacceptable.

You are wrong, but I have neither the time nor inclination to revisit most of my (now) almost 2,100 posts; most of which deal with this topic. Feel free to search through my posts for yourself.
 
This passage associates His second coming with judgment. Was Israel judged the day He rose from the dead?

Jesus made two separate (not associated) statements here. v27; For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each person according to his conduct. MRINT
This is the Judgment Seat of Christ. He comes in the glory of His Father, not His own Glory, and He comes with His Father's angels. That has NOT happened.
v28; I tell you the truth, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Jesus' Kingdom started when He rose from the dead. Matthew 28:18 shows this when Jesus says to His desciples; “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." It is now His Kingdom.


Did Jesus “come with the clouds of heaven” the day He rose from the dead? If not, then this verse is referring to something other than His resurrection.


Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you have said. Yet I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of The Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

I see nowhere that this verse says He came on the clouds when He rose from the dead. Why would you ask that? What do you think "from now on" means?
He was addressing the charge made against Him in verse 61; “This man said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’”
He rose from the dead in Matthew 28...no clouds.




Did all the tribes of Israel lament the day He rose from the dead? No. In fact the Sanhedrin was bribing Roman guards to say that His disciples had stolen His body!
These verses are not promising His resurrection. They are all set in the context of His second coming which is when He said He would “come into His kingdom.”

Matthew 24:30 is a prophecy Jesus made BEFORE He died. It has nothing to do with His resurrection. His resurrection is, as I've just shown above, when He comes into His Kingdom. This is NOT the same as His second coming.


Furthermore, based on these verses, every writer of the New Testament looked forward to His second coming in their lifetimes! Here are just a few of these passages written after He had risen from the dead and after the Holy Spirit was sent:

I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign-- 2 Timothy 4:1 (YLT)

having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Acts 24:15 (YLT)

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:8 (NASB)

Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:9 (NASB)

But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away. 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 (NASB)

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corinthians 10:11 (NASB)

in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)

The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)


Every writer in the NT did NOT use these verses to justify Christ's second coming in their lifetime. Especailly NOT the way you phrase them. They all knew that it was in the future, NOT when.
I do find it interesting that you use the NASB until it translates a word you don't like. 2Tim 4:1 NASB; I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: Acts 24:15 NASB; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
The fact is many people then and now sense an urgency in their lives about Jesus' imminent return. Nothing wrong with that. The fact is though that Jesus Himself said NO being knows the hour or the day, except God.
Mark 13:32-36
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. 34 It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
35 “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’” NIV




The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3 (NASB)

~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested; Hebrews 9:26 (YLT)

Finally, Luke’s gospel summarizes the intent of Christ’s words to His disciples 2,000 years ago so clearly and precisely, that we have no excuse for misunderstanding it:

"But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you (not us living 2,000 years later) may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36 (NASB)

Why would Jesus Christ Himself speak these words to His disciples if His second coming weren't intended for another 2,000 years?

(No "snarks" were used or harmed in the making of this post. This post is certified 100% snark safe!) :D


Now I'm going to assume, though I do not remember reading it, that you believe the second coming happened around the time the Temple was destroyed in 70AD?
I will address the final part of your post when you answer this.
 
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Actually, I do believe quite literally in the words of Christ as spoken to His disciples, not only in the gospels but in Revelation.

I just don't believe them the way you do.

So you believe the Judgment Seat of Christ has already happened, according to Rev 20?
 
Then why waste my time and yours?


Common refrain for you it seems. Apparently anyone who asks you is wasting there time.
Well if it IS the truth, it isn't a waste of time to pursue it. I don't think Edmund Burke would agree.

In any event those who think this happened at the time of the Temples destruction in Jerusalem in 70AD do have a problem. John wrote Revelation in 96 AD, and Rev 1:7 he wrote; Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the tribes of earth will wail on account of him. So shall it be! Amen.
Notice that this is clearly IN the future, after the destrcution of the temple.
You can quote the whole Bible if you want, as seems to be your propensity, but you have no proof that the second coming/judgment seat, has happened. We definitely do not exist in a new earth,(Rev 21) because death still reigns and Jesus does not rule on earth.
It takes a huge amount of mental and scriptural gymnastics to come up with your assertions.
 
Common refrain for you it seems. Apparently anyone who asks you is wasting there time.
No, only those who ask with the intent to argue in endless circles. Been there. Done that. If you'd like to learn something, I'd be willing to discuss it.

As, however, you've already indicated that you wouldn't believe me even if I showed you the evidence for the truth of my position, then it seems as though we have nothing further to discuss.

Hence doing so would be a waste of time for both of us.

Oh, and one more thing: Revelation wasn't written in 96 AD. None of the NT was. But as you're not likely to believe that either, I'll leave it at that.
 
Oh, and one more thing: Revelation wasn't written in 96 AD. None of the NT was. But as you're not likely to believe that either, I'll leave it at that.

Without using a preterist view,how did you come to your conclusion on when Rev. was written?
 
No, only those who ask with the intent to argue in endless circles. Been there. Done that. If you'd like to learn something, I'd be willing to discuss it.

As, however, you've already indicated that you wouldn't believe me even if I showed you the evidence for the truth of my position, then it seems as though we have nothing further to discuss.

Hence doing so would be a waste of time for both of us.

Oh, and one more thing: Revelation wasn't written in 96 AD. None of the NT was. But as you're not likely to believe that either, I'll leave it at that.

Why is it you post in these forums Storm? Is it to spread your gospel?
Maybe I have something to teach you my friend?

I'm sure you feel justified in making these statements, but making assertions and proving them are two different things. The fact that you have twice in this thread alone failed to supply your so-called proof, just tells me there isn't any or you are only looking for weak minded novices that you can try to convince.

The Domitianic dating of Revelation is the most common and widely accepted by Biblical scholars today. The fact that we are NOT in a new earth with no seas, clearly indicates Rev 21 has not transpired.
 
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