Matt 23:1-3 question

[for_his_glory]

I’m tired of the misinterpretations of eph 2;8

We are tired of the false doctrines that come by mans traditional interpretations. You put down Protestants and the Bible they use, but guess what, you are quoting out of a Bible you deem false and not of God. You refute the scriptures we give, but expect us not to refute what you give. Sorry, no one is buying what you are selling.

 

[for_his_glory]

What is the fire?

Do you believe a man is saved the first moment he believed?

Must be in a state of faith till death Jn 3:16 Matt 24:13

If you have to ask then you apparently do not know what the Baptism of Christ is that is different then John's baptism.

I said to start a new thread on Baptism as it has nothing to do with Matthew 23:1-3 as even the Pharisees came against John the Baptist.

 

[for_his_glory]

What is the seal of the spirit?

Fire is love of God ez 36:25-27
We receive in baptism

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

At Pentecost what is symbolized by the tongues of fire but the light of truth and the love of God!

Start a new thread on that.

 

[Paul Timothy]

That’s the subject being born again Jn 3:3
Anyway we must be born of water AND the spirit not just spirit

Faith and baptism Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 act 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21
Baptismal regeneration is being born again not the fundamentalists tradition of “accept Christ as your savior”! Thanks

Being born of water is being born.
Did your mother's water break when you were born?
There is you water birth.

 

[donadams]

Once again taking one vs. of scripture out of the full context that has already been written. If the Bible we use is so corrupt then why do you quote out of it.

Salt and Light
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The apostles doctrine is the true word of God being the doctrines of Christ, not the apostles doctrines.

1Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The house of God is not made by hands or a building with a name on it. All who are in Christ and He in them are the Temple of God.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Show where it says “it’s only the inspired word of God” when in context?

One word is still the word of God
One of Christ’s words is still eternal
Thanks

 

[donadams]

We are tired of the false doctrines that come by mans traditional interpretations. You put down Protestants and the Bible they use, but guess what, you are quoting out of a Bible you deem false and not of God. You refute the scriptures we give, but expect us not to refute what you give. Sorry, no one is buying what you are selling.

You must have me confused with someone else
I don’t oppose scripture or the 73 books of the Bible or any individual

I too oppose interpretations that are the tradition of men

But support the apostolic tradition established by christ

 

[donadams]

If you have to ask then you apparently do not know what the Baptism of Christ is that is different then John's baptism.

I said to start a new thread on Baptism as it has nothing to do with Matthew 23:1-3 as even the Pharisees came against John the Baptist.

Please explain it

 

[donadams]

Being born of water is being born.
Did your mother's water break when you were born?
There is you water birth.

Jn 3:5 say the new birth is by faith AND baptism
Mk 16:16
Matt 28:19
Acts 2:38 8:36
1 pet 3:21
Etc.

 

[donadams]

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

 

[Paul Timothy]

Jn 3:5 say the new birth is by faith AND baptism
Mk 16:16
Matt 28:19
Acts 2:38 8:36
1 pet 3:21
Etc.

Right... but the verse we are talking about the water in question refers to natural birth.
Could we please keep to the topic at hand.
So to be born of water and the spirit is to be naturally born and then reborn in the spiritual sense.
Or how do you interpret the passage in question?

 

[Paul Timothy]

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

The dove(spirit in your example) overflew the water and found no rest. So you are saying with this that the spirit is defeated by water?

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

This is not the reference you want. There is not even a mention of water here.

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

Crossed the Jordan on dry ground... so water was stopped. Water was removed by the spirit... so your formula of "water and spirit" fails here as the spirit stops the water.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

How are these two references connected?

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

The one reference you provide that even remotely might back a claim to a connection between baptism and the spirit.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This references natural birth and spiritual rebirth. Not baptism.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

Are these references and ideas from personal revelation or official doctrine?
If these are from official doctrine... where are they taught... who could I consult with to get further clarity?

 

[donadams]

Right... but the verse we are talking about the water in question refers to natural birth.
Could we please keep to the topic at hand.
So to be born of water and the spirit is to be naturally born and then reborn in the spiritual sense.
Or how do you interpret the passage in question?

No it does not it refers to baptismal regeneration the proof of which is found in verse 22

 

[donadams]

The dove(spirit in your example) overflew the water and found no rest. So you are saying with this that the spirit is defeated by water?

This is not the reference you want. There is not even a mention of water here.

Crossed the Jordan on dry ground... so water was stopped. Water was removed by the spirit... so your formula of "water and spirit" fails here as the spirit stops the water.

How are these two references connected?

The one reference you provide that even remotely might back a claim to a connection between baptism and the spirit.


This references natural birth and spiritual rebirth. Not baptism.

Are these references and ideas from personal revelation or official doctrine?
If these are from official doctrine... where are they taught... who could I consult with to get further clarity?

My understanding from studying God’s word as you Protestants tell us

 

[Paul Timothy]

No it does not it refers to baptismal regeneration the proof of which is found in verse 22

Verse 22 happens in another place at a later time.
Not connected.

 

[Paul Timothy]

My understanding from studying God’s word as you Protestants tell us

So you are pulling theses verses together to make a personal point?
You do understand you are misusing many of these verses.
Pull up another verse that proves your position and let us examine if you are using the verse correctly.

 

[GodsGrace]

No faith alone is condemned
Faith and baptism initiation into the new covenant
Eph 2:8 does not say salvation
And it was already past tense when written, were you saved (salvation) 2000 years ago, refers to the redemption of man by Christ apart from us, “not of yourselves”
Thanks

Could you please post Ephesians 2:8-9 and then give an explanation.

What does FOR YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED....mean to you?
Is it not speaking of salvation??

 

[GodsGrace]

please provide an authoritative source
Or traditional catholic source

:shock

Catholic Answers is not an authorized source!
Jimmy Aiken is not an authorized source!

Are you for real??

So tell me, what is an authorized source for you?

Would the CCC be acceptable to you?
I do believe it's what J. Aiken uses for his theology, AND all of the papal writings -
I had to use the CCC myself for Catholic doctrine - I hope you can accept it!

CCC 161
161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. "Since "without faith it is impossible to please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end.'"

CCC 162
162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith."44 To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith;45 it must be "working through charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church.46

CCC 163
163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then we shall see God "face to face", "as he is".47 So faith is already the beginning of eternal life:
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.

 

[for_his_glory]

Show where it says “it’s only the inspired word of God” when in context?

One word is still the word of God
One of Christ’s words is still eternal
Thanks

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If you refute this then it could only mean you reject the whole Bible, but I see you posting from it so what is the deal with you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Scripture yes!
Scripture alone no!

Scripture yes!
Context ?
Even one word of scripture is still the inspired word of God
And one word of christ is eternal


A Fat sandwich man.

Interpretation / meaning?

A fat man that makes sandwiches:
A man who makes fat sandwiches:

You cannot know the true meaning unless I who write it tell you what it means.

Only the church who wrote scripture can give them proper interpretation / meaning.

There is no church, especially the Catholic church or even the Protestant church, that has ever written scripture. Many have written their own doctrines as they try to indoctrinate their congregation in man's traditional teachings, but man's doctrines are not the true doctrines of Christ for what He gave the Apostles to write as in letters that make up the canon of the New Testament. Man can teach us nothing apart from the Holy Spirit teaching them first, 1John 2:27. We do not abide in the Priest or the Pastor or even a Rabbi, but abide in Christ and His doctrines alone.

Do you think Peter who gave his first sermon on the day of Pentecost spoke his own words or that he spoke by what the Holy Spirit gave him to speak. For that matter Jesus never spoke or did anything that God did not give Him to speak and do.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

 

[for_his_glory]

No not gonna press you that much just provide a List of scripture?

And a list the ten commandments?

And a List of the commandments mentioned in Matt 28:20 all from scripture alone? Please

I said the list is to long to post in here but you can find all 613 commandments of God, including the ten commandments which are not separate commandments in this website that list all 613 with scripture.

A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

A list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) that are binding on Jews.

www.jewfaq.org