Matt 23:1-3 question

[donadams]

We are to submit to the authorities, but only when what they teach us lines up with the word of God and not man's doctrines. This is why Jesus said do as they say, but don't do as they do as being hypocrites.

Show me that in heb Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

[donadams]

Oh, so the Catholics DO believe in sola scriptura?


Well, of course, the faith was revealed to the church, the members of Christ's body. Every believer has had truth revealed to them by the Holy Spirit! That's precisely why we don't need the Catholic church to discern truth for us. It is the Holy Spirit within each believer that discerns for them whether or not what they are being taught is truth or not. I mean, of the things that can be discerned. Some things have not, and will not be disclosed to the people of God.

The truth / faith was revealed by Christ to his apostles in person for three years eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[donadams]

You have changed verses and I believe that is called cherry picking.
You have moved the goalposts while I have tried to address your initial point... you saw you were loosing the battle... and now come with totally different references.
Not a fair game... you are rigging the deck.
That just makes you look bad and is not good for your argument.
Is this what a Pope lead church does? I think I would prefer a church that does not use "bait and switch" on it's people.

No just added support

 

[donadams]

...the Catholic church.

I don't recognize it as being anything close to being the authority the Bible says we are to submit to and respect.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 10:16

 

[donadams]

With all due respect, to me this is a scary sentiment because it opens the door to anything man can come up with. From there, where can one determine the proverbial line in the sand is to be drawn?

Not if you believe in Christ Jn 15:5 the HS Jn 16:13 the apostles (the church) are the light of the world Matt 5:14 the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 required to teach and sanctify all men Jn 28:19-20
Eph 5:22 the church is subject to Christ

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

They taught the truth, however they were hypocrites, they used the truth to abuse the flock.

They had authority the keys of the kingdom
And it was taken from them Matt 21:43 and given to Peter Matt 16:18-9 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
Thanks

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Without the church and teaching authority of the apostles how do we know what is scripture?
66 books with missing chapters or 73?
Ever read the faith of susana in Dan 13?

What suppossed truth is in the Catholic Bible that we non- Catholics don't have?

 

[donadams]

The Christian religion is revealed by God not invented by men, otherwise how do even know what the apostles taught was not made up, how do you know what scripture is? 66 books with missing chapters that’s the tradition of men in the English Bible society or 73 books

All those things don't necessarily describe the RCC today. The Catholic church of today is as far removed from the original Catholic Church as are all Protestant churches. I sincerely question whether Jesus would be able to say to any of our churches today, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

eph 5:32 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 Jn 15:5

 

[for_his_glory]

Show me that in heb Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

What if evil rules over one, are they to submit to evil? If one is teaching another gospel are we to submit to false doctrines? The Pharisees taught the word of God, but yet did not walk in obedience to God's commands as that is what Jesus was talking about as believe what they say, but do not be hypocrites as they are. This is why Jesus characterized them and then condemned them in Matthew 23.

 

[donadams]

What are you not getting? God revealed to Luther, through the scriptures, the truth of justification by faith. It was not his invented doctrine.

You are busy doing righteous deeds and rituals so God will declare you righteous (justify you). Meanwhile, Paul says you are declared righteous by receiving God's righteousness, a righteousness outside of yourself, by believing in it, apart from the doing of righteous things. The Catholic church has been deceiving literally countless numbers of people for centuries that you are righteous in God's sight by doing required righteous deeds and rituals. And that if you do not do them correctly and believe correctly about them you will not be righteous. That is a works gospel.

Not works of the law
Not works alone
But faith and works united to Christ in grace

You cannot enter the kingdom

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

No one is born again by “faith alone”!

 

[for_his_glory]

There are extra books that were not added to the Bible as some had no significance as being trustworthy of those who wrote these books, or that parts are found in the Bible that Christians use. Processing the Catholic Bible culminated in the year 382 as the council of Rome, which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus who presided over the Council of Rome that determined the 73 book scriptural canon, or official list of sacred scripture for the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not works of the law
Not works alone
But faith and works united to Christ in grace

You cannot enter the kingdom

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

No one is born again by “faith alone”!

What work did Abraham, our example of "righteousness apart from works" do to get God to make him righteous?

When you say that doing something is required to get God to make you righteous in his sight you are serving a works gospel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Without the church and teaching authority of the apostles how do we know what is scripture?
66 books with missing chapters or 73?
Ever read the faith of susana in Dan 13?

It's not the teaching authority of the Apostles or any church, but that of the power and the authority of God through His Holy Spirit that worked through the Apostles and all that have been called of God to take His word out into the world in all truths.

Who do you think it was that opened the Spiritual eyes of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost to know truth. Was it the Roman Catholics or Protestants, no, as there were no Catholics or Protestants on the day of Pentecost, but that of the Holy Spirit in whom is the only one to teach us all truths and brings us understanding of the doctrines of Christ, John 14:26, not the doctrines of a mans flavor of church who teach through generational traditional doctrines of man with certain rituals one must partake of in order to be saved.

Why would one even follow after the Jesuit Roman Catholic church who made over 500 million of Christians die a martyr's death for the sake of their witness and testimony of Christ.

God's true Church, being the body of Christ through faith alone, Ephesians 2:8-10, with He being the head of the body was first established on the day of Pentecost hearing the word of God preached to them by Peter. After hearing Peter's first sermon being that of the word of God, their hearts were pricked and they ask Peter what they should do. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:14-41.

We do not repent to any Priest or Pastor, but repent of our sins to Jesus who is our mediator before the Father who is the only one that can forgive our sins, 1Timothy 2:5-6. We can confess our sins to one another, but yet only God can forgive a humbled heart.

Here is the patience and the faith of the saints as they wait upon the Lords return. They will have to wholeheartedly draw on the Lords strength without hindrance while enduring the last battle of Papal Rome’s persecution against them as Satan continues to try and silence the word of God using the present Satanic Jesuit Priesthood religious system, Matthew 24:9-13. Here we see history repeating itself like the Inquisition and annihilation of the saints of God between 538 AD and 1798 with its inhuman torture chambers and burning people alive because they had Bibles in their possession as they were now enlightened with truth and would not conform to the Roman Catholic Pontifex Maximus religious system anymore.

Let us not forget also the Crusaders from 1095 through 1291 who indiscriminately would wipe out whole villages in their path as they traveled toward Jerusalem, for their so called holy wars and the great annihilation of the Jews under Hitler’s reign from 1941 through 1945 killing over six million Jews and burning Bibles written in other languages so the Papacy could retain control teaching their heresies, 2 Peter 3:15-18. Papal Rome will continue to persecute those to death who will not conform to their idealistic heresies, but once they kill the body what more can they do, Luke 12:4, 5.

Here is something that you can look up and study since you believe the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was divided into an eastern half and a western half in 285 CE by Emperor Diocletian. It was the Emperor Constantine in 330CE who moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium (Constantinople) in the Eastern Empire. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome in Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.​

 

[for_his_glory]

The truth / faith was revealed by Christ to his apostles in person for three years eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Again you are trying to make scripture line up with the doctrines you try to teach as neither one of those scriptures say anything of what you have said. If the disciples had so great a faith then why did they flee, except John, when Christ was crucified. Even Peter denied knowing Jesus three times in fear he to would have been crucified as a follower of Christ.

It wasn't until the day of Pentecost that their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to the truths of that which Jesus taught them as before the death and resurrection of Christ they, like many, only saw Jesus as a prophet sent by God and yet had no true understanding of what Jesus taught while He was with them, Luke 24:36-53.

 

[Highway54]

They had authority the keys of the kingdom
And it was taken from them Matt 21:43 and given to Peter Matt 16:18-9 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
Thanks

Glad I read this twice Don, I actually typed in Mat 21:43 and then grasped what you were saying. Yes sir, the Kingdom was given to those of the new covenant, you are quite correct.

 

[donadams]

Well, I didn't expect you to accept it, lol!

Honestly, if you're looking for converts to Catholicism you need to go to a Catholic forum and talk to other Catholics and any seekers that come into that forum. Please respect the vast gap and separation there is between Catholics and non-Catholics. It's there for a reason. We're on a completely different page than you. You're wasting your time here.

Not called to be successful only faithful Jude 1:3 contend for the faith

 

[donadams]

Yes, but not to be declared righteous.

You don't get righteousness by being obedient. You get righteousness by being given it as a free gift of God's grace when you are in brokenness and humility over the fact that you can't do what is needed to be seen as righteous by God.

Only declared righteous?
Not really righteous?
That would make God a party to a lie and injustice!

 

[donadams]

And he teaches us today via the Holy Spirit. And not just our leaders as in the Catholic church. God ended the way of his people being at the sole mercy of various mortals in leadership to receive and recognize and disseminate truth. Now, all of God's people can recognize truth for themselves and don't need someone to decide for them if what they are hearing is truth or not. Catholics didn't get the memo.

Then why are they commanded to teach us? Matt 28:19

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Only declared righteous?
Not really righteous?
That would make God a party to a lie and injustice!

All born again believers really are righteous.
The completed but ongoing intercessory ministry of Jesus and his sacrifice before the Father in heaven keeps the believing person continually clean and free of all sin guilt, and so the Father always sees the believer as perfectly righteous. And the Holy Spirit within the believer leads them into an actual life of righteous obedience here on earth. More and more as they mature to the full measure of Jesus Christ and the traits of the Spirit.

 

[donadams]

What suppossed truth is in the Catholic Bible that we non- Catholics don't have?

2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)

Sirach 24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
26 Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.
27 For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.
28 My memory is unto everlasting generations.
(scripture is deleted by the tradition of men in the KJV)