Matt 23:1-3 question

[jeremiah1five]

Re Matthew 16:18

The way you write it by writing Catholic=Universal, or V V, makes it seem that you are adding to scripture. Please stop doing this.

Everything written in the bible infers that the church of Jesus is referring to the Kingdom of God on earth, right now.

For instance, atheists are not part of the New Covenant but only those that believe and worship God.

Can't be. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world.

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18:36.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Can you show us in scripture where Jesus Christ or Paul or Peter or any Apostles ever taught anything about a “Pope” ruling over the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ from Rome?


Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.

Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.

Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19

This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17

A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 acts 2:42

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

God always establishes peace and order by obedience to the authority of the fathers.

The church is catholic cos it is universal. Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 Matt 28:19

The church is Roman cos it is Christ’s church that conquered the Roman Empire!

What if I post Scripture that refutes 90% of your statements.
Would the Word of God change your thinking, or do you need the assistance of a mediator or some other representative?

 

[jeremiah1five]

QUOTE: Can you show us in scripture where Jesus Christ or Paul or Peter or any Apostles ever taught anything about a “Pope” ruling over the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ from Rome?

RESPONSE: Can't. Because there's no such thing.

QUOTE: Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.

RESPONSE:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:9.

QUOTE: Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.

RESPONSE: What you teach is called Replacement Theology.
Christ doesn't replace, He adds:
"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Acts 2:47.

QUOTE: Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19

RESPONSE: That is incorrect. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of HEAVEN, not earth.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 16:19.

QUOTE:This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17

RESPONSE: You're going backward trying to establish a link with the past. So, if this authority is as you say given to Peter and the apostles then at the beginning, we have 12 Popes?

QUOTE: A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.

RESPONSE: That's correct. But it's only a building. What happens in it and its use id determined by who occupies it.

QUOTE: Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

RESPONSE: Remember, it has to do with the kingdom of HEAVEN, which to the "Jews" meant HEAVEN.

QUOTE: God always establishes peace and order by obedience to the authority of the fathers.

RESPONSE: Not true.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. Mt 10:34–36.

There seems to be some kind of disconnect here. You say one thing, Christ says the opposite.

QUOTE: The church is catholic cos it is universal. Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 Matt 28:19

RESPONSE: Well, that's what the word means, but the RCC is not universal. There are nearly 2 billion Muslims on the planet, 1.5 billion Protestant Christians, and nearly 1 billion Judaists. Then you have millions of other religions like Buddhists, and Taoists, and Communists out of 8 billion people. Count the non-believers and it comes out to about 8 billion in total population. I'd say the RCC is a minority on the planet.

QUOTE: The church is Roman cos it is Christ’s church that conquered the Roman Empire!

RESPONSE: The true Church of Jesus Christ has Hebrew and "Jewish" roots. The RCC doesn't. And that's a fact.

QUOTE: Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.

RESPONSE:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:9.

I notice you quote heavily from Matthew. Matthew is the MOST "Jewish" of the four gospels.

 

[donadams]

Hi D,
Sounds like you've been reading Scott Hahn.
Good stuff.

But you shouldn't call other denominations heretical unless you include the definition of the word and show that makes them heretical.

Remember, if the CC had stayed true to Jesus' teachings and to those of the Apostolic Fathers, the Reformation would not have been necessary.
I'm sorry we have so many denominations, but the responsibility must be picked up by who caused it,,,and we all know it was the CC with the changes it had made from the beginning times.

Matt 28:19 shall not prevail

Not formally saying they are all heretical but only implying they teach errors

 

[donadams]

Yes I do believe the Bible, which I use the KJV, is the sole authority, plus the history that is contained in it for us to know truth through the Holy Spirit teaching us.

Considering the Protestant Reformation began in Wittenburg, Germany in 1517 and the Roman Catholic Church came from the Roman Empire in the first century I will believe the letters written by the Prophets and Apostles to be the only grounds for all truths as all being inspired of God to write.

This is what I believe:

2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What I involve myself in is the Father, his Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit as that is all I need to teach me.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I don't abide in Priest or Pastors as all are fallible, including myself as I have been shown many times where I was wrong and the Holy Spirit worked through those that have more Spiritual knowledge than I have to correct me. Only God is infallible.

Scripture yes
Scripture alone no

Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15



The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority” excludes the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the teaching authority of Christ in his apostolic church and the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26

KJV only? What did the church for the 1600 years before there was a KJV?

 

[donadams]

Do you mean all Protestants?

Not formally

 

[donadams]

Why do you continue to add to scripture the word Catholic when it is not written in them and why do you refute Ephesians 2:8-9.

Pharisees/hypocrites are in every religion/denomination/non-denomination. They love to be seen in the market place but yet are blind fools leading others astray.

I dont
The word catholic means all or universal
The verses I gave are catholic universal all
Eph 2:8 I accept it but not your interpretation
Only the church who wrote the New Testament can give an authorized translation

What does it mean in eph 2:1 & 5
“quickend”?

 

[donadams]

Re Matthew 16:18

The way you write it by writing Catholic=Universal, or V V, makes it seem that you are adding to scripture. Please stop doing this.

Everything written in the bible infers that the church of Jesus is referring to the Kingdom of God on earth, right now.

For instance, atheists are not part of the New Covenant but only those that believe and worship God.

Catholic means universal or all

Faith and baptism

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[donadams]

You think God doesn't know what He is doing with His own people? The Israelites had the Old Testament. They protected it and when they made copies and made a 'comma' mistake they threw the whole copy away. Their copies were exactly what God had said through His prophets and other writings by their leadership and servants.

One more thing, the Scripture was given TO and FOR His people in Covenant. It was not given to the Gentiles that surrounded Israel. The Word of God was for believers ONLY. Same as today. When you read the Bible - hopefully you have a good translation, and the best translation is the King James Version - read it in context to WHO the Word of God was written to: Believers in Covenant with God.
It was not written to unsaved unbelievers. It was not written to that world of people.

Yes the church of the apostles wrote the scripture but you have abandoned this church and started new ones in the so-called reformation
Where does scripture authorize a reformation? The so-called reformers are not apostles no connection to Peter and his successors or the apostles and their successors
No authority from christ


The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith!

The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15

Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13)

Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19

Christ alone founded the church
All other are the tradition of men
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

 

[donadams]

What if I post Scripture that refutes 90% of your statements.
Would the Word of God change your thinking, or do you need the assistance of a mediator or some other representative?

Even if you could I don’t believe scripture alone, scripture yes scripture alone no
But Christ Jn 14:6 and His church

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

Reply to J5 #123

Call no man father really?

Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 Tim 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father…

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[donadams]

Reply J5 #123

RESPONSE: What you teach is called Replacement Theology.

Yes replacement theology

Christ replaced David as king lk 1:33-34
New covenant replaced the mosaic covenant
Church replaced Israel as the kingdom
Isa 22:21-22 Matt 23:41 gal 4:26
Holy mother church

Christ and his church are one and eternal unity acts 9;4 eph 5:32

The rejection of the church or her sacred deposit of faith (doctrine) is rejection of christ

The so-called reformers rejected the church and therefore Christ and without any authority started new churches with new doctrine new revelation the errors of the five solas

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


matt 16:18 shall not prevail
Jn 8:32 you shall know the truth
Jn 16:13 HS leads the apostles into all truth then teach us Matt 28:19
Matt 18:17 must hear the church
Lk 10:16 hear the apostles
Jn 10:16 one church
Matt 5:14 light of the world
1 Tim 3:15 pillar of truth

 

[donadams]

RESPONSE: Can't. Because there's no such thing.

RESPONSE:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:9.

RESPONSE: What you teach is called Replacement Theology.
Christ doesn't replace, He adds:
"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Acts 2:47.


RESPONSE: That is incorrect. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of HEAVEN, not earth.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 16:19.

RESPONSE: You're going backward trying to establish a link with the past. So, if this authority is as you say given to Peter and the apostles then at the beginning, we have 12 Popes?

RESPONSE: That's correct. But it's only a building. What happens in it and its use id determined by who occupies it.

RESPONSE: Remember, it has to do with the kingdom of HEAVEN, which to the "Jews" meant HEAVEN.

RESPONSE: Not true.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. Mt 10:34–36.

There seems to be some kind of disconnect here. You say one thing, Christ says the opposite.

RESPONSE: Well, that's what the word means, but the RCC is not universal. There are nearly 2 billion Muslims on the planet, 1.5 billion Protestant Christians, and nearly 1 billion Judaists. Then you have millions of other religions like Buddhists, and Taoists, and Communists out of 8 billion people. Count the non-believers and it comes out to about 8 billion in total population. I'd say the RCC is a minority on the planet.

RESPONSE: The true Church of Jesus Christ has Hebrew and "Jewish" roots. The RCC doesn't. And that's a fact.

RESPONSE:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mt 23:9.

I notice you quote heavily from Matthew. Matthew is the MOST "Jewish" of the four gospels.

Which of the so-called reformers was an apostle sent by the apostles with authority from Christ?
To attack the church is to attack Christ lk 10:16

 

[GodsGrace]

Catholic means universal or all

Faith and baptism

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

I agree with 95% of the above.

But what do you mean by faith alone?
The CC teaches that we are saved by faith, Ephesians 2:8.

So what else do we need in order to be saved?
(Except for Baptism. Most Protestants agree baptism is commanded by Jesus.)

 

[donadams]

I agree with 95% of the above.

But what do you mean by faith alone?
The CC teaches that we are saved by faith, Ephesians 2:8.

So what else do we need in order to be saved?
(Except for Baptism. Most Protestants agree baptism is commanded by Jesus.)

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

Faith and works (sacraments, prayer, alms, fasting, salvation suffering, practice of virtues)
Mk 13:13, Matt 24:13 endures to the end shall be saved
Any questions

 

[Paul Timothy]

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

Whats the difference between redemption and salvation in your opinion?

Faith and works (sacraments, prayer, alms, fasting, salvation suffering, practice of virtues)
Mk 13:13, Matt 24:13 endures to the end shall be saved
Any questions

What does "faith and works" have to do with Mk 13:13 or Mat 24:13?

 

[donadams]

Whats the difference between redemption and salvation in your opinion?

What does "faith and works" have to do with Mk 13:13 or Mat 24:13?

We are members of Christ in grace by faith and baptism
Then we endure in him and his church his sacraments his grace his virtues til the end
Then salvation


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Questions welcome

 

[for_his_glory]

Spell check sorry
Pagan Roman empire

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was divided into an eastern half and a western half in 285 CE by Emperor Diocletian. It was the Emperor Constantine in 330CE who moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium (Constantinople) in the Eastern Empire. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome in Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

I present this to show you how the Holy Roman Catholic Church was founded. The Holy, notice the word Holy, was the beginning of the Roman Empire Catholic church in 800AD by the Eastern Roman Empire that is known today as Vatican City who has diplomatic relations with every nation on every Continent.

But again, even after we have showed you many errors in your theology as you add to scripture and refute scripture you can believe what you want.

 

[for_his_glory]

Scripture yes
Scripture alone no

Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15



The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority” excludes the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the teaching authority of Christ in his apostolic church and the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26

KJV only? What did the church for the 1600 years before there was a KJV?

The Holy Spirit is the sole authority over the written word of God or as scripture calls it the oracles of God who is the only one who can teach us all truths. You have a Catholic Bible I would assume so what makes it sole authoritive over the KJV or other reputable versions and what makes your Priest infallible as only God is infallible.

Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[GodsGrace]

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation

Faith and works (sacraments, prayer, alms, fasting, salvation suffering, practice of virtues)
Mk 13:13, Matt 24:13 endures to the end shall be saved
Any questions

Yes Don
I have a question and so does every priest I know, and also the Bishop in Lucca ,,, drop him a line if you wish. His name is Paolo.

Eph 2,8 uses the word SAVED .
Not REDEEMED.

Plus there is no difference, if a person is redeemed, he is also saved, bought back.

The CC believes we are saved by faith.
By faith.
No works.

THEN come works.
Catholics call this ongoing justification,
Protestants call this sanctification.

Please stop the confusion.
The CC has enough problems.