Mental illness

[Classik]

This might sound strange, I see it makes sense. INSANITY! MADNESS!!
What causes mental illness? There are a lot of things that could make one go mad: pressure in the head due to accident, drugs etc. How about the demon possessed mad people?
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1 Is there a bilogical difference between these two people: a demon possessed mad man and a man who ran mad after taking hard drugs?
2 Could a doctor administer the same medical treatment to the two?
()()()()
Sorry for freaking you guys out!!!

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't think its either/or with craziness. I have problems, and they're due to a number of factors. Childhood head injuries, a head injury sustained during a botched mugging (I was hit on the head with a pipe), being overmedicated, taking lots of uppers and downers...you get the picture. Brain damage, or at least brain abnormalities, certainly can and often do play a role (but not always).

As for the spiritual element...definitely. I don't know much about demonic possession or whatever, but from what I've seen and experienced, there are spiritual forces at work all the time, especially during madness. The last time I had a major breakdown, I ended up in jail. I was put in a very special thing they call the "Z-tank," a tiny cell with metal floors, metal walls, a camera posted in one corner, and a ceiling with a section that slid open so the guards could throw food down to you. I was there for 3 days, during which time I hallucinated about devil worshippers and the end of the world. To put that into perspective, I wasn't a Christian back then, and I wasn't interested in demons or anything. I still don't know where those hallucinations came from.

When I had a cellmate, he and other people in my section of the jail told me that I "had a demon." At the time, I chalked it up to ignorance on their part. Now, looking back, I'm really not so sure. Maybe they were on to something. Anyway, after a stint in Christian Rehab, things got better. I still hear voices now and then, and I get severely depressed, but everything responds reasonably well to meds, so at least now I'm treatable.

Sorry to get so personal. Its just, I think sometimes Christians (and unbelievers, too) who haven't experienced madness want to say its this OR that, when the reality is complicated. In my own situation, I"m pretty sure that if I hadn't been neurologically different from other kids, I would have socialized more and had more friends, and I probably wouldn't have done the same deviant things I did from, say, 17-23. I think I invited dark forces into my life. I also did a number on my brain. And ongoing social factors, like being rejected by my peers and unemployed, kept me "crazy" when a little bit of compassion and tolerance might have made a world of difference.

So, there you have it. Mental illness isn't as simple as a "broken brain," but we can't ignore the brain. Its rarely purely psychological/emotional, but we can't ignore emotional aspects, either. Its not always caused by social factors, but they definitely play a strong role. And demonic activity is, I think, either ignored as a contributing factor by unbelievers and "modern" believers alike, or its given entirely too much credit for causing a problem that is incredibly complex.

 

[Classik]

Thanks alot, Empowered. That's a great reply.
You know, I keep wondering what really happened when Christ healed a demon possessed man in the bible...I wonder what kind of insanity it was that gave him the power to defeat all the villagers who came to kind of tame him. He was powerful, he could not be chained - he tore all chains apart.
--
He was healed by Christ. The most frightening is the part: legion, evil spirirts sent into swine...

Mark 5 NKJV

1 Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when Hehad come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him.
7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me.
8 For He said to him, Come out of the man, unclean spirit!
9 Then He asked him, What is your name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion; forwe are many.
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.
13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
14 So those who fed the swine fled, and they told it in the city and in the country. And they went outto see what it was that had happened.
15 Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And theywere afraid.
16 And those who saw it told them how it happened to him who had been demon-possessed, and about the swine.
17 Then they began to plead with Him to depart from their region.
18 And when He got into the boat, he who had been demon-possessed begged Him that he might be with Him.
19 However, Jesus did not permit him, but said to him, Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He has had compassion on you.
20 And he departed and began to proclaim in Decapolis all that Jesus had done for him; and all marveled.
---
For this reason, most doctors who know and believe (and have witnessed it) evil forces can live in some people do not bother much treating them as they would treat the others. They believe in the power of prayers, the efficacy of the blood of the lamb. :yes

---
I remember when God used one of our church members to set free a mentally ill man. It was interesting! The man was asked to say: 'Jesus is the most powerful'. He never did at that time, he was saying the opposite. But the moment he said what he was asked to say (Jesus is the most powerful) God's divine touch struck him. He was prayed for and was totally healed.

 

[Pebbles]

The brain is a mallable organ much more so than other organs of the body when an indivdual is exposed to certain intense stimuli or trauma it can be altered in a harmful way this causing mental illnesses. This is the case with PTSD, Certain kinds of chronic depression.

This is the case with some aquired illnesses however other illnesses are simply mechanical in their cause and are usually caused by genetic mutations in particular gene expression interfereing with conductivity between nerve cells.

Schizophrenia, Autism, Psychopathy, Bipolar disorder

Often this won't cause the disease outright but it makes an indivdual more vunerable to certain situations than somone without the mutation. It really can be shocking to even see it in yourself.

Depression mostly

there is no such thing as demons in my eyes least not in the way your discribing. Often when pepole discribe demons I get the images of christian witch doctors trying to exercise autism out of some poor woman who has no idea whats going on clearly terrifying her and claiming this proof the demon dosen't want to leave.

 

[Denim]

I don't know about demons, but these mental illnesses are just as real, but that doesn't mean the person is driven by a demon. The person will most likely be more vulnerable only because he/she doesn't know better.

I am one of those who suffer from a mental illness and a developmental disorder, so I am always confused by this.

 

[Classik]

Thanks, Pebbles Splendid!

Madness (sorry to use), perhaps, isn't the right word to qualify that demonic situation which makes these people (e.g as described in the chapter I quoted above) behave very strangely. This state/condition is beyond science...
--
Have you seen a psychic before? :dunno (Most of these people unconsciously predict the future...they keep talking nonsense that come to pass. I could have shared something here about one of our leaders,
...a demon possessed mad man saw this leader and publicly told him alll the evil he has done in the secret. The leader hurriedly walked away. Note that they had never met before! Why wouldn't the leader disappear? I do not want to go into the details here...for security reasons)
--
One of my aunts visited us several years ago. My sister decided to take her out. They ended up trekking down to a nearby market. They were so elated and were carelessly moving, and were merry in their chat. Suddenly, there was a shout:

'Eliza! Watch out for that vehicle!!!'
My aunt quickly turned around and fled just before the vehicle could hit her. What happened?

One of the mad women who had escaped into the street was talking to my aunt. Believe it or not she was the one who saved my aunt from a fatal accident.
'How did she know my name?' my aunt asked. 'I'm just new in this town.'

Perhaps you have not met with one of these people before, Pebbles. I don't care about them. They do exist, most of the are violent, some others are horrible.
I am not a demon fan:D Maybe one day we would see the other side of insanity.
Alot of things are happening in this world and many are not aware of it.

 

[Gazelle]

I don't know if this thread is in response to a thread I began http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=38862 but if not, I would like to join in?

Yes, you're correct to change the word "mad" to something more accurate, imo. Insane is a legal term, not used by doctors outside that forum. Psychoticism--that of having a psychotic disorder--psychosis, would be the closest I think to what you are describing. ;)

And you are right, imo, to show how treating the two differently is necessary. However, while there may be a demonic element for some people who are psychotic, often without "religious" intervention, medication is the only viable method of giving them some semblance of normalcy...hopefully enough to engage in psychotherapy so they can realize "where their life went wrong".

They do exist, most of the are violent, some others are horrible.

I'm unsure of exactly whom you are describing... but in any of the catagories I fail to find "most of the(m) are violent" a valid statement.

In my experience, "psychics" never foretell the future, they only speak of what was, what already happened...which they can know by knowledge of the demons/satan. That is their realm, and while they cannot know the future, they do know what has already occurred.

However, there are many who have a sixth sense of "knowing" and use it all the time for Christ, as it's God-given. They don't go about publicizing it much, and surely don't have a reality show :toofunny They aren't evil either.

 

[Classik]

I don't know if this thread is in response to a thread I began http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=38862 but if not, I would like to join in?

Yes, you're correct to change the word "mad" to something more accurate, imo. Insane is a legal term, not used by doctors outside that forum. Psychoticism--that of having a psychotic disorder--psychosis, would be the closest I think to what you are describing. ;)

And you are right, imo, to show how treating the two differently is necessary. However, while there may be a demonic element for some people who are psychotic, often without "religious" intervention, medication is the only viable method of giving them some semblance of normalcy...hopefully enough to engage in psychotherapy so they can realize "where their life went wrong".

I'm unsure of exactly whom you are describing... but in any of the catagories I fail to find "most of the(m) are violent" a valid statement.

In my experience, "psychics" never foretell the future, they only speak of what was, what already happened...which they can know by knowledge of the demons/satan. That is their realm, and while they cannot know the future, they do know what has already occurred.

However, there are many who have a sixth sense of "knowing" and use it all the time for Christ, as it's God-given. They don't go about publicizing it much, and surely don't have a reality show :toofunny They aren't evil either.

Thanks Gazelle. Atually the word 'mad' should be avoided. However, I find it a perfect word for the devil and his demons.
--
A funny thing about insanity is that the person(s) involved are not aware of their mental condition - but how come they know what they are up to? :dunno
I have witnesses some of them call sane people 'insane'.

 

[Gazelle]

Thanks Gazelle. Atually the word 'mad' should be avoided. However, I find it a perfect word for the devil and his demons.
--
A funny thing about insanity is that the person(s) involved are not aware of their mental condition - but how come they know what they are up to? :dunno
I have witnesses some of them call sane people 'insane'.

Yeah... "mad" might fit some of those who are actually demonic and not human... ;)

People, when suffering from any disorder, often have their thoughts disordered as well. This is true, I think, even when the origin of the disorder is purely physical, such as chronic pain from a physical injury often causes entrenched depression....

Those with thought disorders, well, that's why they're categorized that way... for some, they truly can't see the forest for the trees! They just don't realize that what they are thinking is irrational, because their thinking IS irrational! They won't believe you just from being told the truth, you have to lead them to where they need to be to realize it (and often, a lot of prayer ensues.)

Most people do have some type of disorderly thinking... and always have. I can see it go back to Adam and Eve. ;) And there are verses that encourage us to find the right thinking, but it generally takes someone trained in recognizing it and helping him change his thinking to produce good results. Being angry AND sinning is a thought problem; being angry and NOT sinning means the thought process is correct and action is taken to remedy the core issue. Continued depression, while it can create roots that cause physical reactions, needs attention in corrective thinking, positive reinforcement, to begin to turn and finally realize a non-depressive state.

 

[EricTheBaptist]

Mental Illness is just some weird genetic thing I don't understand.

 

[Classik]

Mental Illness is just some weird genetic thing I don't understand.

:toofunny
And kind of 'the more you look the less you see'

 

[Gazelle]

Could be.

I try not to use the mental illness phrase but mental unwellness. We all have it at some time... this unwellness. Usually it is fleeting, or at least not chronic (i.e. the distress and sadness experienced after a death of a loved one, when we cannot think "straight" or figure things out...)

I hope I can move people to not fear having such unwellness just because they are Christians, and to be comfortable to seek help for it.

 

[Classik]

Could be.

I try not to use the mental illness phrase but mental unwellness. We all have it at some time... this unwellness. Usually it is fleeting, or at least not chronic (i.e. the distress and sadness experienced after a death of a loved one, when we cannot think "straight" or figure things out...)

I hope I can move people to not fear having such unwellness just because they are Christians, and to be comfortable to seek help for it.

My neighbor calls it 'madness' (his word, not mine). He says we all have elements of 'madness' (his word, not mine) in us. we have the potential for it...it is in us, well installed...
--
Someone is provoked, he gets very upsets and beats up another person, breaks plates, hurls items into the air, tears the wife's costly garment, does this and does that. It is the installed madness (his word, not mine) partially in action. It could be light, it could be horrible. We are potentially mad (his word, not mine).
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The bible helps us to control that anger (or mental unwellness ).


I remember doing something stupid. I was provoked, and I angrily threw away my food. I later regreted my stupidity, there was nothing to eat again. I got normal again and laughed over it.........anyway it is normal with people -to once get very upset. Then do not do something stupid. my sister has a way out: shut your mouth or walk away.

---
but believe me, ' reaction/revenge seems the only thing that satisfies or placates anger - (that stupid thing)........
I prefare the bible way

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think madness/mental illness is complicated. Not only do we not know what causes it, there are serious questions about how we define it. If you hear voices, but still do your job and the voices don't bother you (maybe they're pleasant voices; a small percentage of schizophrenic patients report these), is it really a disease/disorder? What if the voices tell you stuff you need to know? I think my own psychotic episode helped destroy my narcissism and got me ready to become a Christian by altering my personality (it was pretty intense, obviously). Is that a "disease" or is that a painful, but ultimately positive "growth spurt" or a form of "growing pains" ? If I'd been medicated then, before the madness had run its course (in that particular episode), would I be the same person I am now? Or would I have been tranquilized out of an opportunity for spiritual growth and change?

See what I'm saying here? I think depression, mania, psychosis can all be positive sometimes, at least over the long haul. Of course, in the short term, it sucks to be crazy, especially if you're crazy enough to land in a mental hospital involuntarily. That is expensive and decidedly un-fun. And these days, I take 2 medications to stay out of a mental hospital, but I have "residual symptoms." Should I treat these, or let them ride? For the time being, I'm choosing to let them ride--I think dealing with low-grade hallucinations and sometimes intense anxiety has the potential to help me develop character.

Sorry to make this all about me. I'm the craziest person I know. Other people with psychotic disorders have decided to reject meds completely,or keep the doses lower than what their docs prescribed. Is this "lack of insight," or do these people have more "insight" into their "condition" than professionals and the rest of us care to admit? Is the person who rejects meds for "severe mental illness," or is at least very careful about what meds and at what doses they take really any more "sick" or "unwell" than the person who runs to the nearest psychiatrist and/or therapist whenever they have trouble? Why is the person in the first example in denial or lacking insight, while the person in the second example is seen as some sort of model citizen for pursuing that ever-elusive goal of good "mental health" ?

Anyway, this is way off the original topic, which I believe was about demonic activity as it relates to craziness. I'll say this: the Devil's greatest trick is making you think he doesn't exist. I think his second greatest trick is making you believe that he's much more powerful than he really is. While I've seen what I now believe to be evil forces working in the madness of others and myself, I can't really blame it all on satan. Like I wrote in my initial post, my own madness, and the madness of most "crazy" people, is multifactorial; you can't point at any one thing as causing the problem, although a number of factors combined to create the "illness" and then keep it going. One of those factors is often satanic activity.

 

[Gazelle]

Hmmm I also don't use the word "crazy" as that is quite inappropriate for me... maybe I'll blame the legal system again for that term? ;) Society has a far different understanding of mental unwellness than what reality proves...and they exhibit that by using such terms as mad and crazy. I think you know more than you let on, and perhaps have fallen into the habit of using worldly terms?

People who feel "crazy" think they are much worse than reality might dictate. Whereas feeling somewhat disordered in thinking, for example, presents a more doable fix for them, as to find some order to their thinking. That's rather simplistic, I'll admit, but it's basically correct.

As for voices... are they from within or without the person? A trained person can help with either, but the remedy is far different between the two.

People who accept medication and then don't take it according to directions may have other issues. A patient has every right (unless court ordered) to NOT take medication, but they have to be the adult and tell the prescribing physician that they don't want to take it (anymore) and allow the doctor to help them wean off it. The doctor assumes "you" are taking the medication according to directions, and bases everything on that and what you share.

Today's psychotropic medications work on specific areas of the brain and cannot be withdrawn too quickly without real side effects. It's not like an aspirin that you can decide to just not take. ;) Some of those brain meds take months to withdraw from, even if the dose was low and only taken a few weeks.

Part of the problem with lack of compliance regarding medication is that the medication actually works, and the patient doesn't realize without counsel, that it is the medication making them feel better, and they can't just go off it because they feel better and think they don't need it! While medication can readjust how we feel, if the problem is not "just" that, then it isn't remedied and will return once medication is removed. Psychotherapy helps correct lifestyle/thinking/approach to life etc., so they don't fall into that rut again, or if they do, they know they can get out of it (as they already have) and the rut tends to become smaller and smaller as they progress in healing. Psychotherapy can also help a person learn how to cope with their setbacks--even those events of irrationality from the disorder--making it easier to live day to day. (Such as not beating oneself up when a relapse occurs.)

As for having to be committed involuntarily to a hospital, well, however messed up that makes one feel, it's not such a horrible outcome because it's for the person's safety. There are some people who consider themselves handling life quite well when they experience a "psychotic break" from reality, seemingly out of the blue. They may not realize they're not in touch with reality and need confinement until they are...do. Others may suffer day to day with mental unwellness and find themselves in such overwhelming despair that they need the safety of others taking care of them, giving them somewhat of a reprieve from life itself. Today, most hospitalizations of this manner are for key reasons: to keep the patient (and others) safe, to help make plans for ongoing care once released, to stabilize them on their (new or old) medication. I'm glad that the facility was there to help when you needed it most.

I would encourage you to work on any issues still unresolved... the anxiety can build and take over your life completely...yet through therapy such as cognitive behavioral therapy you can resolve what it is causing such anxiety, imo. (And here is where some confusion may enter. The Bible clearly tells us to not be anxious, yet if a person doesn't know how to counter that anxiety, if they've never learned how to think and plan etc to prevent or limit anxiety, than knowing what the Bible says alone just doesn't help. (Except it might allow them to put guilt upon themselves for not trusting "like they should". Someone trained (counselor or minister etc,. doesn't matter) can show the steps of good self care ... and walk with a person through them until they are habit. Is there spontaneous healing through prayer? Absolutely, but more often than not the person needs to learn to change the way they think or react so they "stay" healed. ;) (Please don't anyone pick this apart, it's a matter of support right now.)

Satan is very powerful, as are his demons--who seem to be plenteous. However, God is much more powerful and will battle for you.

You appear to have a good start on a support team for yourself...I would definitely add a psychologist to talk with weekly, if you don't have one. Ministers generally don't have the skills to even begin to understand someone who hallucinates, or I'd send you there only. But having a minister to pray with as well is a good thing. :D (You can also ask your Christian psychologist or counselor to pray with / for you as well. )

If you can self advocate, then do so. Don't settle for the status quo, unless you need to rest there for a while. Don't over tax yourself, even in seeking healing. And, while I'm sure you have already, speak to God about your illness and healing. Ani Adonai rofecha (I AM the God Who heals you.) While I admire that you can and are learning from your experiences, that is not God's perfect way.. but using what the devil means for bad and turning it to good, as you appear to be trying to do, is God's way.

...I pray that you can begin to put some of your obvious past hurtful, scary experiences behind you... and move forward from where you are in your journey. God knows just where you are, and loves you.

 

[Classik]

I like this level of politeness, Gazelle.
Mad (uncalled for)
crazy (uncalled for)
Insane (uncalled for)
Lunatic (uncalled for)
Sociopath (uncalled for)
Derenged (uncalled for)
Psychic (uncalled for)
Mental (uncalled for)
,,,
,,
,,
,,
and down to the most polite term to use
I know some terms should be avoided, however, from my perspective, it seems people use a particular term to qualify a particular mental state.

)))(((
The mentally unwell dude Christ healed should not be called, INSANE
Imagine a man who broke chains, defeated the entire village, killed (very likely), and lived in a tomb, Good Heavens! He should be called a worldclass sociopath (just kidding)
--

There are other people who are so cool, friendly etc, and the only time you know the are not well is when someone tells you: he is not well, or maybe you see him/her suddenly burst into tears and immediately 'switch' over to laughter.
--
My relative:

(I do not know if he is still alive, he was having a mental problem):

My dad traveled home to meet our family memeber. This my relative met him and:

'Long time no see. Where have you been?'
My dad was happy to meet him. He responded normally.
'How are your kids doing?'
My dad told him, 'We all are fine.'
It was a friendly atmosphere. S
uddenly,
:bigfrown 'Why are you here? You are a fool. You are insane...Could you imagine...'

My dad fled before my relative could find a weapon.
It is such a condition that breaks the heart. Only God understands truly what they go through (although God uses people to control certain mental conditions).

 

[for_his_glory]

There are many factors that can control the mental illness of the mind depending such as brain damage due to blunt force trauma, hallucinogenic drugs (prescribed or street), neurological abnormalities at birth and even demon possession, but the important thing is to learn how to handle whatever the mental illness is by defining whether it is neurological or Satanical.

I've been involved with a few situations where it was not neurological but that of a demonized mind and Christ working through me cast that demon out of the person and they were made whole again. (would not recommend trying to cast out demons unless you truly have the power of God working through you).

There are times when provoked anger, (which differentiates itself from mental illness), can lead us to do things we would normally not do and this has nothing to do with neurological or satanical, but only has to do with what our anger can cause us to do.

 

[Classik]

but the important thing is to learn how to handle whatever the mental illness is by defining whether it is neurological or Satanical.

That is where the problem lies, 'a person's ability to determine the nature of the illness truly helps a lot. Most people do not believe such an illness could be a demonic one.
So what do you suggest, when the person incharge does not believe that some of these people are under the torment of the devil?

 

[Classik]

I've been involved with a few situations where it was not neurological but that of a demonized mind and Christ working through me cast that demon out of the person and they were made whole again. (would not recommend trying to cast out demons unless you truly have the power of God working through you).

Thank you for that clear warning!
I remember the account in the bible: '
Acts 19 NKJV

13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.â€
14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?â€

16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

---
My neighbor (although late) had a similar encounter. Her son was having a demonic problem. One of the days she went to pray for her. Just as she was making the prayer the woman fell down and became unconscious. We all gathered to help and were embarrased by the son's laughter. It was a terrible day (and though that encounter did not kill the woman).
--
Please people who are not under the power of God, who are not instructed by the Holy Spirit SHOULD NEVER VENTURE into this. And we should not unnecessarily move about seeking whom to deliver!!!

 

[Classik]

There are times when provoked anger, (which differentiates itself from mental illness), can lead us to do things we would normally not do and this has nothing to do with neurological or satanical, but only has to do with what our anger can cause us to do.

And that is what my friend terms 'Potentially m*d'