Message to GOD"S elect

[JLB]

God's will is for not any should perish.

It's God's will all are saved.

Your free will has to be engaged for you to be saved.

Of your free will you must choose to receive Him.

The will of God in verse 13 is God's will for all to be saved.

Not God's will just for a few "elect" to be saved.

I hope you see the difference.


JLB

No that is surrendered will, one is saved by accepting Gods Will, not by "free-will" No man can save himself nor keep himself saved by his own free-will, he must surrender his will to the Christ Crucified. Unless one loses their life they cannot find life, unless one surrenders their own "free-will" they cannot walk in Gods Will. How can two walk together, unless they agree? Its man who does the agreeing with God, not God changing His Will.

Let me just say this, anyone who walks in the Spirit of God, KNOWS that is requires that one be crucified to self-will. This "free-will" stuff is just not the way of The Cross.

By choosing to accept God's will of Salvation, you have a choice to make, this choice involves your free will.

A person must initially choose God's will, and continue to choose God's will throughout his or her walk with God.

Always a person's free will is involved.


JLB

Again that is not "free-will" that is surrendered will. Those who walk in "free-will" are not walking in Gods Will, but they are what the scriptures call "self-willed"

Sorry George, you can not get around the truth. God does not make us choose. It takes mans free will to choose God's will.

A person must choose to obey the Gospel.

A person must choose to believe the Gospel.

A person must choose to take up the cross daily.

A person must choose to the leading of the Holy Spirit or the flesh every day.

It is always a choice of mans free will to choose the will of God or the sinful desires of the flesh, everyday.

Jesus had to make a choice, just as we do -

He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will." Matthew 26:39

Jesus chose His Father's will over His own will, it was His choice.



JLB

 

[reba]

Some folks can not will not accept their guilt for their sins... At the same time if we have not sin we do not need His Blood which covers our sin or forgives one of those words.... One of those catch 22 things.

Sin was judged, and mercy was poured out, its called the Cross. The only "catch" is for those who will not admit they are nothing in the flesh, that the flesh must be crucified with Christ. This is not a work or action of the flesh through dead religious works, it is by faith in the truth and power of Gods Spirit. The renewed mind, and the power of Gods grace are the only thing that gives a believer power over the sin that dwells in the flesh. The flesh is the issue, the Cross is the answer. So for anyone to claim they are concerned about "others" sin, and not bring the biblical solution? Proves they have not dealt with their own sin. As the Lord said "get the log out of your own eye, before you look for the twig in the eye of others"

Sounds like we agree :shocked!

 

[gr8grace]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

As for the teaching of men and limited atonement... ask yourself this..

WHO would want to LIMIT the atoning work of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

Is this something the Spirit of God would teach..? The Spirit of God who always exalts and glorifies the Lord Jesus Christ in all things...

No... certainly not imo..

WHO else might want to LIMIT what the LORD has done..?

While Calvinists use the term "Limited Atonement" because of TULIP, the phrase is commonly misunderstood. Probably "Particular Redemption" is the better phrase to explain Calvinist/Biblical theology. Actually, the phrase "Limited Atonement" better belongs to Arminians or non-Calvinists. Non-Calvinists do not believe the atonement has the power to save all those under the atonement. Non-Calvinists loudly trumpted the inability of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to save all who are under the blood. That is far more "limited" in power then the Calvinist "Limited Atonement." Calvinists on the other hand take a far higher view of the atonement in that it is perfect in its power to save. If Jesus Christ shed his blood for you as a particular individual, then you will be saved, or are saved. All those under the shed blood of Jesus Christ (the atonement) are saved. Of course in Arminianism, you can be under the shed blood (atonement) and still go to hell. That would be a very weak view of the power of the shed blood of Jesus Christ to save. Thus the term "Limited Atonement" should go to non-Calvinists. Calvinists believe in a "Full Atonement" or particular redemption. The shed blood of Jesus was no partial atonement as in non-Calvinism.

Another view that was left out in this post is the Christian view of the Atonement.

The Christian view :

Unlimited atonement.

The unlimited atonement is the saving work of Christ on the Cross on behalf of every member of the human race. Jesus Christ died for every member of the human race. Atonement is the reconciliation between God and man, accomplished by the efficacious sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. Unlimited atonement and propitiation remove the barrier between God and man, so that every person in the human race can be an object of salvation.

Romans 3:10-11 speaks of mankind with out God calling them. Mankind with the barrier up. God removed that barrier and CAME after mankind with His Highest and best.

Man does not seek God, God came to us via the Cross. And that is to all men.

The unlimited atonement propitiated(100% satisfied) the Father, thus reconciliation between God and man was accomplished.

ALL men have already been saved from their sin, sin is 100% paid for. The tricky part is this, even the sin of unbelief has been paid for. Believing gets us out of the Great white throne judgement.

The great white throne judgement is men trying to measure up to Christ. Sin or unbelief will not be brought up at the Great white judgement. Mans righteous deeds and good works are brought up at the Great white Throne. It is man trying to save himself And without Christ, we all know they will not measure up.

Freewill of man and the sovereignty of God Co-exist in this world. God has completely removed the barrier Of Rom 3:10-11 for ALL men. And we are without excuse for not taking what He has offered ALL men.

 

[JLB]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21

and again -

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A person is saved when they believe and obey the Gospel Message.




JLB

 

[gr8grace]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21

and again -

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A person is saved when they believe and obey the Gospel Message.




JLB

Did Christ pay for all sin?

 

[Randy]

By choosing to accept God's will of Salvation, you have a choice to make, this choice involves your free will.

A person must initially choose God's will, and continue to choose God's will throughout his or her walk with God.

Always a person's free will is involved.


JLB

Again that is not "free-will" that is surrendered will. Those who walk in "free-will" are not walking in Gods Will, but they are what the scriptures call "self-willed"

Is surrendered will made freely? John 6:38 Luke 22:42

We have freedom in Christ but we are not free to sin. If I choose to follow Jesus thats free will.

Randy

Who is promoting sin but those who claim that a will is not to be surrendered to the Will of God? It is "free-will" that sins, it is "surrendered will" that obeys.
And often we surrender with gladness based upon Gods goodness, "for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance" But it is surrendered will nevertheless.

It seems to me you are using free will out of context. I believe people choose to sin by their free will. I believe people choose to follow Jesus by their free will.

R.

 

[JLB]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

Scripture says -

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21

and again -

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A person is saved when they believe and obey the Gospel Message.




JLB

Did Christ pay for all sin?

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

 

[gr8grace]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

Scripture says -

9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9




Scripture says -

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21

and again -

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A person is saved when they believe and obey the Gospel Message.




JLB

Did Christ pay for all sin?

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

I did NOT say that. I said all men have been saved from their sins. they will not pay for their sins. Christ made that payment. Christ was held accountable for all sin.

It is not a sin issue. It is a Son issue.

 

[josefnospam]

to JLB You are right. Just because I say it means ZERO. It is God who saves his people and he knows who are his. Our work here is to proclaim Jesus Christ as The only true and Complete Saviour.

Matt 7:22 speaks of those who cast out devils and prophesied in his name They called on his name saying Lord Lord and what was his response. Verse 23

Mark 16:17 is spiritial in meaning. No one picks up serpents, today or drinks poisen. This is where the so called Charismatic churches got there start, when some churches in southern Kentucky, actually did (and still may do thinngs like pick up a rattlesnake), drink deadly things ect. This has
a spiritial meaning. The tounges spoken of is the NEW song of Salvation thru Jesus Christ alone and not all men speak or understand.
Now I know this will probably get a lot of responses from those people who are charismatic, but it's not my intention to start such a debate. My reason for living is to faithly declare God's word as he allows me to do so and I will not, modify, change, waterdown or sugarcoat his wonderfull plan of salvation for his blood bought people. But of myself I am sinner and I need a saviour that I cannot munipulate, choose, or help in any way. He included me in his Salvation plan and I am thankfull and all the attacks or words in the world can not change that. Who shall seperate us from the love of Christ and Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect. Again well said ..........just because I say so does not make it so . Our God does that and I can thank him daily for the faith to believe in Him alone. Talk IS cheap and I find I fall short of his glory every day. But I am his because that is his will. That he lose none he came for. He came for and included me and I do so hope you are his also. May he bless you as only he can do and give you the faith to believe him.

 

[George Muller]

Is surrendered will made freely? John 6:38 Luke 22:42

We have freedom in Christ but we are not free to sin. If I choose to follow Jesus thats free will.

Randy

Who is promoting sin but those who claim that a will is not to be surrendered to the Will of God? It is "free-will" that sins, it is "surrendered will" that obeys.
And often we surrender with gladness based upon Gods goodness, "for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance" But it is surrendered will nevertheless.

It seems to me you are using free will out of context. I believe people choose to sin by their free will. I believe people choose to follow Jesus by their free will.

R.

Your half right? Think about it, all obedience is a submission of mans will unto the Will of God, this is the Message of The Cross, this is what it means to "walk in the Spirit"- "be led by the Spirit" That means one has died to their own "will" at the Cross and are under the Will of the Spirit. This is the purpose of Gods Word, to bring the believer into HIS WILL. ALL disobedience is and comes from the "will" of man- self-will/free-will. One may say "they choose to surrender" but one always surrenders to the will of another. Yes, it is a glad death often times to bring our will to His Cross, but often it must be forced upon us in that we see and know "OUR" will is not the answer. FREE-WILL is disobedience, surrendered will is obedience.

 

[George Muller]

Sorry George, you can not get around the truth. God does not make us choose.

JLB, what? Are you so determined to defend a false term made by mans religion that you make such statements? Yes we much choose to be saved, we choose to "accept" and surrender to God and His Will or to continue in self-will. If one continues in free-will they are in disobedience, if one surrenders to Gods Will, then they are saved. But its Gods Will not mans that saves.

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[JLB]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

Scripture says -

9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9




Scripture says -

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21

and again -

So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A person is saved when they believe and obey the Gospel Message.




JLB

Did Christ pay for all sin?

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

I did NOT say that. I said all men have been saved from their sins. they will not pay for their sins. Christ made that payment. Christ was held accountable for all sin.

It is not a sin issue. It is a Son issue.

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

This is a copy and paste from your post.

So, yes it is what you said.

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

 

[JLB]

It is God who saves his people and he knows who are his

God saves people, when He does THEY BECOME His people.

They BECOME sons of the living God.

Before He saves them, they don't know Him!

"And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." Romans 9:26


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes we much choose to be saved, we choose to "accept" and surrender to God and His Will or to continue in self-will.

I agree George.

What I don't agree with is God makes us choose His will.

We, of our own free will, choose to obey God, or we choose NOT to obey God.

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-13

God's will is for all to come to repentance.

God's will is for all to be saved.

God's will is for those who receive Him, TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD.

However, they must choose to be led by the Spirit.

They must choose to obey His will, to take up their cross DAILY.

They must choose to believe the Gospel message and be born again, TO BE BORN OF GOD.


JLB

 

[gr8grace]

Re: Not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world...

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

I did NOT say that. I said all men have been saved from their sins. they will not pay for their sins. Christ made that payment. Christ was held accountable for all sin.

It is not a sin issue. It is a Son issue.

ALL men have already been saved from their sin

This is a copy and paste from your post.

So, yes it is what you said.

I believe the price for all sin was paid on the cross.

However, I am addressing the statement you made - all men have been saved.

The scriptures I posted address that statement.

All men have not been saved, neither will all men be saved,

Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel and obey the Gospel.


JLB

Boy JLB, I really think that a moderator needs to step in on this one. We should not be taking a PART of a sentence from another and apply what ever we feel to It. You are cutting part of my sentence out and applying a different meaning to it. and You have taken it out of the context in which I used it.

I will do it with your last sentence.

I am addressing the statement you made- Those who will be saved are those that believe the Gospel.

I completely agree JLB, I am so glad that you turned the corner for truth Here. All we have to do is believe and we are forever saved. Praise God that you have rethought your former position.

Added: The context of my WHOLE post seemed to me, to explain the sentence that was pounced on. maybe not?

Every man has been Saved(delivered) from their own personal sins. Because Christ Paid for all sin. It has become a Son issue for ALL men Not a Sin issue for men.

 

[josefnospam]

Regarding the devil....He was not created to even have a chance to come to such a Salvtion as God gives his people. The devil was created By God for God's own purpose and he will do exactly as God wants him to do. He does what God allows him to do and is under God's wrath for what he does. He is the father of lies, and he is conqured and under ALLmighty God's authority. None of God's angles will ever have or get what he gives his people. They have their purpose and so do we. His peopel have been given life and that forever to worship. praise , honor and tell otheres thier need of him. alone and until he calls them to himself,, from that awful pit thery are in , they will not be able by there works to approach God. May he be calling and using you for his wonderfull , finished work whick is HE alone and by his power and might saves ALL his people now and forever. To him be ALL the Glory. Yes all that is required is to believe he alone did a perfect work and men don't believe that in there natural state and never will. THAT is why they need a Saviour and he is JESUS CHRIST the LORD.
You have heard the truth, and if you will not come to him without a broken and contrite heart, men will die in their sins, attempting to Worship God with thier lips while there heart is not right within them and can never be unless God Gives then a new heart. What a great and Sovergin God we worship,. He alone is rightous, just and true. WE need him, I need him. "It is of the LORDS mercies that we are not consumed, because HIS compassion fail not. They are new every morning." Lamentations 3:22

Praise God he HAS done it all for we can never do it wthout him, nor influence nor help him.

 

[reba]

This thread is reading a bit confusing I will close for clean up. To be reopened shortly.

Added: The line for cleaning this up is blurry to me yet I see it... please read the below commit and consider it. Thanks Reba

It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member.

Do not
flood a forum or thread with similar posts, or many posts in succession. Allow
others a chance to speak and be heard. If you are responding to multiple posts
in the same thread, please consider using the multi-quote feature. Please
refrain from taking a thread too far off topic. Slight tangents are ok, but we
prefer to keep threads as they have been defined in the OP (Original Post).

I see a bit of confusion here not so much a misrepresentation or at least not a purposeful misrepresentation. Just as we all know we can 'cherry pick' scripture to force it to say what we want we can do the same to fellow members.
Please take the others members whole post or postings into account when responding. I bet not a member here hasn't pounded the desk saying " That is not what I meant "... yet those are the very words....

Often it is difficult to make sure how we say things. What is in our minds eye may not be what the other members see in their minds eye.

Most all the members here are brothers and sisters in the Lord.... Those of us with children know the hurt when our kids at fighting/picking/stabbing etc. each other......How much more does our Lord hurt?

 

[josefnospam]

To Ezra..............We became the elect before God Created the world as it so eligantly states in Eph. 1:4 "Acording as he hath choosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him."

HE choose us.
We are holy and without blame( our sins are forgiven)
It was according to the good pleasure of His will
He made us accepted in him
We have redemption through his blood

We are sealed with that holy spirit of promise.


I believe him when Paul so well stated this

It is through grace, are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselfs. It is the gift of God, NOT of works lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8 and 9

Don't boast in what a man does but in what God does. For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselfs. it is the gift of God. NOT of works lest any man boast. Eph 2:8 and 9
We are the elect of God from begining to end and belong to Our Lord and Saviour now and forever.

 

[George Muller]

Yes we much choose to be saved, we choose to "accept" and surrender to God and His Will or to continue in self-will.

I agree George.

What I don't agree with is God makes us choose His will.

We, of our own free will, choose to obey God, or we choose NOT to obey God.

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-13

God's will is for all to come to repentance.

God's will is for all to be saved.

God's will is for those who receive Him, TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD.

However, they must choose to be led by the Spirit.

They must choose to obey His will, to take up their cross DAILY.

They must choose to believe the Gospel message and be born again, TO BE BORN OF GOD.


JLB

One surrenders to the Spirit, it is not "free-will" it is a submission to the will of another. Just as James says that a believer should not say they are going to such and such city and make money or do this or that, but should always say if its Gods Will. That is not free will, that is obedience to Gods will. Free-will boast and takes oaths of what it will do, all such boasting and assumption of free-will is evil.

As is relates to the point of salvation, The Holy Spirit CONVICTS a person of Gods Will, often through great fear and trembling, and a person who is saved, is saved when they "surrender" their own will, to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. No man can come to God unless they are drawn by the Holy Spirit, no man can "choose" to be saved by their own will. So "free-will" does not describe obedience, but describes disobedience. A FREE WILL sign on a church is about as dumb as religion gets.

 

[Eventide]

The blatantly obvious point, Is that we are FREE to surrender our will so that His will is done.

The Spirit of God doesn't drag anyone to Christ as so many are taught in Calvinism... The Spirit is depicted as a DOVE to show how gentle He is.