Miracles, do you believe?

[DivineNames]

And if the book of Hebrews had more than one author, why is that an issue? Does Hebrews state anywhere that Paul is the one and only author of the book? Do you understand that Paul dictated much of his work? This is so lame I can't believe I'm answering it. What a waste of time.

Can you read? :D

What did I say?

"The epistle makes no internal claim of authorship", so I do not include this.


Is it really that difficult to understand?

 

[DivineNames]

Nothing you say here denies a contradiction, denies that the "word of God" is wrong.

Whether or not it, "offers a reasonable explanation for the difference" is completely irrelevant.

kwag_myers, you didn't answer this point.

 

[kwag_myers]

If any of the Gospels were produced by eyewitnesses, then they are very poor works for it.

2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" So God's writing ability is not up to your standards?

Now I can't say that its impossible that God would want fake books included in the Bible, but its certainly very strange is it not?

I can say that it is impossible for God to fake anything, including a portion of the Bible. That would be a lie, and God is not capable of that, because He cannot sin. You clearly do not understand the nature of God.

I can think of another issue that you can try and address if you like. Some of the works in the Bible attributed to St. Paul may not actually have been written by him.

Okay, how is this an issue? Some books are attributed to Paul because they say, "I Paul..." Here's a list: 2 Corinthians 10:1; Galatians 5:2; Ephesians 3:1; Colossians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:18 and Philemon 1:19. So tell me, which of these are really not written by Paul?

Nothing you say here denies a contradiction, denies that the "word of God" is wrong.

In my opinion, if one of these three authors made the statement that there was no one with unclean spirits and the whole thing never happened, that would be a contradiction. I don't understand how this serves as proof that the Bible is wrong.

There is also the possibility that only one of these two men was delivered. As Dr. Halley suggests, "Matthew says there were two demonics. Mark and Luke mention only one, probably because he was the more violent of the two, and spokesman."

 

[DivineNames]

If any of the Gospels were produced by eyewitnesses, then they are very poor works for it.

2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" So God's writing ability is not up to your standards?

No.

They lack detail. They have a "mythological" look to them.

 

[DivineNames]

Okay, how is this an issue? Some books are attributed to Paul because they say, "I Paul..." Here's a list: 2 Corinthians 10:1; Galatians 5:2; Ephesians 3:1; Colossians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:18 and Philemon 1:19. So tell me, which of these are really not written by Paul?

Romans
First Corinthians
Second Corinthians
Galatians
Philippians
First Thessalonians
Philemon


The above list are those that are not disputed. They are universally considered to be authentic.


The Pastoral epistles, which do claim to be from St. Paul, are the most disputed apparently. As I understand, they are generally regarded as not coming from Paul.

 

[DivineNames]

In my opinion, if one of these three authors made the statement that there was no one with unclean spirits and the whole thing never happened, that would be a contradiction. I don't understand how this serves as proof that the Bible is wrong.

There is also the possibility that only one of these two men was delivered. As Dr. Halley suggests, "Matthew says there were two demonics. Mark and Luke mention only one, probably because he was the more violent of the two, and spokesman."

Its not a case of "probably" at all, that is pure speculation.

The contradiction is obvious.

 

[kwag_myers]

The contradiction is obvious.

No. What is obvious is that you are grasping at straws. You set unrealistic standards and then you say, "See, I told you it wasn't true".

And if you do not believe God's Word is true, why are you here? To serve Satan?

The above list are those that are not disputed. They are universally considered to be authentic.

The Pastoral epistles, which do claim to be from St. Paul, are the most disputed apparently. As I understand, they are generally regarded as not coming from Paul.

You didn't answer the question. How is this an issue concerning the validity of the scriptures?

 

[DivineNames]

No. What is obvious is that you are grasping at straws. You set unrealistic standards and then you say, "See, I told you it wasn't true".

You make unrealistic claims about the Bible.

Its an obvious contradiction, as far as I can tell. There is more than one instance where this difference of numbers comes up.

And if you do not believe God's Word is true, why are you here? To serve Satan?

If you like...

 

[DivineNames]

The above list are those that are not disputed. They are universally considered to be authentic.

The Pastoral epistles, which do claim to be from St. Paul, are the most disputed apparently. As I understand, they are generally regarded as not coming from Paul.

You didn't answer the question. How is this an issue concerning the validity of the scriptures?

I have pointed to three books (or letters...) of the Bible, that claim to be from Paul, and they are probably fake.

If you can't see this as an "issue concerning the validity of the scriptures" then you are blind.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Here's a funny story. It comes from 2 Kings 2:22-23. Elisha was traveling when some kids started making fun of him. He turned around and spoke a curse, and two bears came out of nowhere and had them brats for lunch. I think it's funny when God punishes those who mock His anointed prophets. Kinda like, "who's laughin' now?"

Interesting that you would think this story is "funny". One can only wonder how insensitive you must have been BEFORE you were a Christian? :-?

"What effect will logic have upon a religious gentleman who firmly believes that a God of infinite compassion sent two bears to tear 30 or 40 children to pieces for laughing at a bald-headed prophet?" (Voltaire)

 

[kwag_myers]

And if you do not believe God's Word is true, why are you here? To serve Satan?

If you like...

Thank you for confirming the obvious.

Interesting that you would think this story is "funny". One can only wonder how insensitive you must have been BEFORE you were a Christian?

"What effect will logic have upon a religious gentleman who firmly believes that a God of infinite compassion sent two bears to tear 30 or 40 children to pieces for laughing at a bald-headed prophet?" (Voltaire)

I already addressed this lame attack on my character...

(you really think that children being mutilated because they made fun of Elisha's baldness was funny? Are we getting an insight on your degree of compassion here? Or do you just feel hatred welling up inside when any of what you believe is challenged with good reason? "Threats" are always an indication that the threatener realizes he has no case)

I have no compassion for those who despise God's anointing. Did Joshua have compassion on those he conquered? And what about the seven bowls of wrath and the Battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16)? What exactly is the definition of "Lord of host"? Yeah, I rejoice when God puts down His enemies. So what? Show me a scripture that tells me I'm wrong to do so.

Now if the two of you will excuse me (and even if you won't) I'd like to spend my time here with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Interesting that you would think this story is "funny". One can only wonder how insensitive you must have been BEFORE you were a Christian?

"What effect will logic have upon a religious gentleman who firmly believes that a God of infinite compassion sent two bears to tear 30 or 40 children to pieces for laughing at a bald-headed prophet?" (Voltaire)

I already addressed this lame attack on my character...

Sometimes I think you must live in "Bizarro World", you know, the planet in Superman comics where everything is backwards? You believe the MUTILATION of 42 children is "funny", yet then accuse ME of being in league with Satan. :roll:

Think of the weeping and wailing of the mothers of 42 young ones when they found those shredded carcasses...think of the mothers covered in the blood of their sons as they clutched what was left of them to their breasts , screaming in anguish...think of Kwag_myers (had he been there) peering around a tree trying to stifle a laugh.

Before you accuse me of painting a distorted picture - it was you who brought up the "she-bear" incident for the purpose of using it as an example of how you thought it was funny when God punishes those who mock His prophets.

Since you also believe you are an "anointed prophet", do you look forward to the day when some kids on the street might make fun of you for a receeding hairline so you can (hopefully) watch God "appoint" a SUV to run them over? What's really in your heart?

Religious delusions breed mercilessness. If you didn't feel you had to defend a creed or conviction at any cost, you would find more room and reason for compassion.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil - THAT takes religion" (Blaine Pascal)

 

[kwag_myers]

Sometimes I think you must live in "Bizarro World", you know, the planet in Superman comics where everything is backwards? You believe the MUTILATION of 42 children is "funny", yet then accuse ME of being in league with Satan. :roll:

You've mistaken Bizarro World with the Kingdom of God, which is described in Revelation 22.

Think of the weeping and wailing of the mothers of 42 young ones when they found those shredded carcasses...think of the mothers covered in the blood of their sons as they clutched what was left of them to their breasts , screaming in anguish...think of Kwag_myers (had he been there) peering around a tree trying to stifle a laugh.

Train up a child in the way that he should go..., sins of the father are passed from one generation to the next. Bottom line, these mothers asked for it, and God gave it to them. The wages of sin is death.

As for me hiding in a tree laughing, I don't think so. More likely I'd be in their face telling them how their sin of disobedience to God's Word led to His judgement.

Before you accuse me of painting a distorted picture - it was you who brought up the "she-bear" incident for the purpose of using it as an example of how you thought it was funny when God punishes those who mock His prophets.

Actually, I rejoice when God destroys my enemies, Exodus 15:1.

Since you also believe you are an "anointed prophet", do you look forward to the day when some kids on the street might make fun of you for a receeding hairline so you can (hopefully) watch God "appoint" a SUV to run them over? What's really in your heart?

Of course I don't look forward to it. It is God's desire that all men be saved. However, I will continue to rejoice when ever God fights on my behalf.

Religious delusions breed mercilessness. If you didn't feel you had to defend a creed or conviction at any cost, you would find more room and reason for compassion.

I don't need your compassion. In fact, I quite sick of you. And what I am defending is God's Word. If you can't handle that, then I suggest you leave. But then how can you continue to harass God's people. Satan wouldn't like that if you left. And since you have no authority over Satan, I suggest that you not make him mad at you.

"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil - THAT takes religion" (Blaine Pascal)

Religion is a very generic term. Look what is going on in Iraq in the name of religion. But to do evil is against God's Word and you have yet to show how I've violated God's Word, so put up or shut up. Show me according to God's Word where I've committed evil. I don't think that you can, 'cause you don't read the Word, so you don't know it well enough to prove anything.

 

[DivineNames]

I have pointed to three books (or letters...) of the Bible, that claim to be from Paul, and they are probably fake.

If you can't see this as an "issue concerning the validity of the scriptures" then you are blind.

So I guess this shows that the Bible probably isn't the "word of God".

 

[DivineNames]

Religion is a very generic term. Look what is going on in Iraq in the name of religion. But to do evil is against God's Word and you have yet to show how I've violated God's Word

Perhaps insurgents in Iraq would also believe that they haven't violated God's word? Perhaps they believe that what they are doing is actually in keeping with God's word? (obviously the Quran for them)


Are we allowed to judge the ethics of the Bible and Quran and any other holy book?

If not, then how can followers be so sure that they aren't worshipping the Devil?

 

[DivineNames]

And what I am defending is God's Word. If you can't handle that, then I suggest you leave.

Sorry, but it probably contains fake books, so its probably not "God's Word".

:evil:

 

[DivineNames]

Since you also believe you are an "anointed prophet"

:o :o :o

:-D

 

[DivineNames]

Bottom line, these mothers asked for it, and God gave it to them.

Sir, your sick little mind was presumably twisted by your religion.

 

[kwag_myers]

Perhaps insurgents in Iraq would also believe that they haven't violated God's word? Perhaps they believe that what they are doing is actually in keeping with God's word? (obviously the Quran for them)


Are we allowed to judge the ethics of the Bible and Quran and any other holy book?

If not, then how can followers be so sure that they aren't worshipping the Devil?

Do any of them have a risen Savior? No.

Sorry, but it probably contains fake books, so its probably not "God's Word".

You have yet to provide anything but theory on that.

Sir, your sick little mind was presumably twisted by your religion.

First, thanks for the blessing: "God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers." Matthew 5:11

Second, my "sick little mind" is renewed daily by what I believe is God's Word: "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think...." Romans 12:2

I know you can't understand it, because you are not a spiritual person. "With the Lord's authority let me say this: Live no longer as the ungodly do, for they are hopelessly confused. Their closed minds are full of darkness; they are far away from the life of God because they have shut their minds and hardened their hearts against him." Ephesians 4:17-18.

Wow, that is so you.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

You've mistaken Bizarro World with the Kingdom of God, which is described in Revelation 22

And you assume that you represent the kingdom of God. When Jesus said -

"Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God" (Luke.18:16)

"Suffer" is olde english for "allow" - it does not mean to MAKE them suffer, in the more modern definition of the word "suffer". Perhaps that will help your outlook?

As for me hiding in a tree laughing, I don't think so. More likely I'd be in their face telling them how their sin of disobedience to God's Word led to His judgement

I am disappointed in you Kwag, and worried. I used to think you were just living a relatively harmless fantasy, (thinking you were a prophet and seeing miracles everyday) but now I have apparently antagonized you to the point where something behind the delusion is rearing it's ugly head.

Your comment about how you would be "in the faces" of the grieving mother's is self-descriptive of what motivates you. It is the same religious obssession that fueled the Inquisition. Do you know the reasoning behind the thumb-screws and racks? Torture these people into accepting the tenents of the church and we'll be doing them a FAVOR, because then they will escape hell. (Of course, neither the tenents of the church nor the existence of hell could be proven, but what the heck)

The same rationale that pervaded the minds of the Inquisitors has consumed yours. Your obssession with what you identify as the righteous judgement of God has clouded out compassion and you haven't even noticed it.

Actually, I rejoice when God destroys my enemies, Exodus 15:1

What "enemies"? You live comfortably in 21st century America, with every comfort and convenience that has been afforded you by infidel inventors and every liberty that has been acheived for you by those who had the fortitude and initiative to lay aside their bibles long enough to sacrifice their resources (and sometimes even their lives) for political/social reform.

Where are the Egyptians, Kwag? Where are the chariots bearing down on you threatening to force you into sea? You're imagining yourself as an OT prophet or a NT martyr and it's all a DELUSION. What's REAL, however, is the dispassionate spirit your imaginings are breeding within you.

I don't need your compassion

You do need SOME compassion. Isn't that what a Christian is supposed to display? Anyone can rejoice when his enemies (real or imagined) are destroyed. Those Islamics who recruit suicide bombers do as much.

In fact, I quite sick of you. And what I am defending is God's Word.

The organized church, for 13 or more centuries, also believed it was "defending God's Word" when they advocated physical punishment for all those who didn't comply with their doctrine.

If you can't handle that, then I suggest you leave. But then how can you continue to harass God's people

I have a clearer conscience "harrassing" those who falsely believe they represent the heart of an infinitely benevolent Deity, than I would harrassing the grieving mothers of mutilated children.

Satan wouldn't like that if you left. And since you have no authority over Satan, I suggest that you not make him mad at you

While I'm at it, shall I also make sure not to make the "Boogey Man" mad at me? But anyway - from what I understand, Satan also has very little compassion - and would no doubt have the same callousness toward the children and mothers in the little story we've been referring to as you do?

Religion is a very generic term. Look what is going on in Iraq in the name of religion. But to do evil is against God's Word and you have yet to show how I've violated God's Word, so put up or shut up. Show me according to God's Word where I've committed evil. I don't think that you can, 'cause you don't read the Word, so you don't know it well enough to prove anything.

"Love is...kind...does not brag and is not arrogant...is not provoked...does not take into account a wrong suffered..."

Doesn't sound a lot like you :