More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

[brightfame52]

Corinth77777

Hi, I am lost on the title, which means Im not sure where you are trying to go with it or why.

Hi, Im showing how them for whom Christ died for as a result shall be regenerated and born again, that shows the saving efficacy of His Death and Resurrection, is that important to you ?

 

[brightfame52]

We are reconciled by his death how much more will we be saved by his life...I think that a scripture

Yes Rom 5:10 it shows that those whom Christ died for are legally, objectively reconciled, and that ensures they will be subjectively reconciled spiritually by His Life

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes Rom 5:10 it shows that those whom Christ died for are legally, objectively reconciled, and that ensures they will be subjectively reconciled spiritually by His Life

Ephesians 2: around 6-10 JLB may be another example.

I think I see where you are going, but I believe the reason people point out that it is conditional (based on remaining in Christ)is because many people who believe they are born from above have not been. So then apply scriptures to them that don't belong to them at the time.

What you may be announcing is that God's quickening Spirit is so amazing that no one will want to move away from it even if they do.

 

[brightfame52]

Ephesians 2: around 6-10 JLB may be another example.

I think I see where you are going, but I believe the reason people point out that it is conditional (based on remaining in Christ)is because many people who believe they are born from above have not been. So then apply scriptures to them that don't belong to them at the time.

What you may be announcing is that God's quickening Spirit is so amazing that no one will want to move away from it even if they do.

This doesnt sound like anything I believe or have been explaining

 

[Corinth77777]

WHAT I SEE IS THAT GOD IS THE SAME

FOR EXAMPLE WHEN God became a God to his chosen people Israel He wasn't saying anything different to us about His character and what was needed so we could be in His presence. He was merely showing you can do nothing unconnected to Him.

Therefore, many of God's deliverences was brought about by the people humbling themselves,
turning from their wicked ways and seeking His face.

Note-This makes me question the difference between God and Lord.
For I would think God is the God of all, But is He the Lord of all?

The deliverences were from the present circumstances in the life or world they were then physically alive in.

Now if the deliverences were from present circumstances...and life and peace abides with you now then there is a point of being perfected in or by love. For where is fear in faith?

And therefore doing what we need to do with God in this life secures the next.

The key is to be a part of His full coming kingdom now by living as one of His kingdom now. So therefore if we are in His presence now where is death....but the next life.

And the above can be taken in different ways because even though now we are not physically dead, when we take up our cross giving our lives to God we now live.

And what power does death have over life.

And so: the will of the father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

What life? The holy Spirit or joy and peace? Or both? WHAT SPIRIT RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD?

 

[Corinth77777]

This doesnt sound like anything I believe or have been explaining

I take it all back

 

[JLB]

We are reconciled by his death how much more will we be saved by his life...I think that a scripture

Yes a beautiful scripture, that teaches us it is by His Life in us (The Spirit of Life in Christ) that empowers us to walk in the newness of life; The resurrected life in Christ.

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:10

It is the Spirit that enables and empowers us to walk in dominion over our flesh.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Therefore, many of God's deliverences was brought about by the people humbling themselves,
turning from their wicked ways and seeking His face.

Absolutely!!! Amen!!!


Well said.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

It causes Gospel obedience to those He died for !

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The being made perfect here means by fulfilling every stipulation of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, to include His obedience to death as per Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19, He became the Author of Eternal Salvation, to those obeying Him.

This means His Perfect obedience causes/authors their obedience. Evidence therefore of Christ having died for someone, is that they become obedient to the Gospel commands of God. The word obey in Heb 5:9 is the greek word hypakouō

and means:

to listen, to harken

a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)

2) to harken to a command

a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to

It means to harken to a command. Now what were the Gospel commands ?

One is Repentance ! Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This word commandeth in the greek is in the present tense, God through the preaching of the Apostles was commanding repentance from all whom Christ had died for. Not only was this just a bare command, but God because of Christ wrought their obedience in them through the Preaching of the Apostles !

Paul states in Rom 15:18

For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Christ wrought by Preaching the obedience of elect gentiles ! Thats why we have Heb 5:9 That Christ is the Author of Salvation to who ? Why those obeying Him, those obeying the Gospel, those who hearken to the command to repent ! Another Gospel command that they shall hearken to is to Believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Again, Christ work, wroughts obedience to this command, in them whom He died for. He causes their obedience.

And He wroughts obedience in them to the command to Love one another, that is brotherly love.

Lets look at this command given by Christ to His disciples See Jn 13:34;15:12,17

Peter says in 1 Pet 1:22,23

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: What did he base this on ? Vs 23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Thats who the Gospel commands are for, those being born again. They are the ones who are commanded to Repent, to Believe, and to Love one another, and Christ is the Author of them obeying Him !

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:10

This scripture shows that them for whom Christ died are saved by His Death by reconciling them to God legally, and will be saved by His resurrected life by giving them New Spiritual life by His resurrection

 

[JLB]

JLB



This scripture shows that them for whom Christ died are saved by His Death by reconciling them to God legally, and will be saved by His resurrected life by giving them New Spiritual life by His resurrection

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:10

Christ died for His enemies; unbelievers, unregenerate and therefore unsaved people.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


God loves the unsaved people of the world, even though they are His enemies, he sent His Son to die for them, so that they might become saved; reconciled to Him.



JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

Corinth77777


Hi, Im showing how them for whom Christ died for as a result shall be regenerated and born again, that shows the saving efficacy of His Death and Resurrection, is that important to you ?

I guess the way you framed this is confusing to me.

let me see if I can translate:

The result of being a continual believer is forgiveness that amounts to regeneration??

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:10

Christ died for His enemies; unbelievers, unregenerate and therefore unsaved people.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


God loves the unsaved people of the world, even though they are His enemies, he sent His Son to die for them, so that they might become saved; reconciled to Him.



JLB

Yea I did not understand what He meant.
But I believe He was trying to stay away from universalism. He died for His enemies that would believe.

The question I believe people have pondered was: what is the world referring to? We know He died under the law to release those under the law .

Yet also:He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2).

So yes He died for all but all may not receive Him.
So how would you say that without including universalism.
One might say his death and resuurection is only functional to those who believe??

Liken to someone having a million dollars available but do not take any steps to receive it.
You cant have the benefits of it if ya never receive it.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:10,14

We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now the writer of Hebrews says this about the accomplishment of Christ's death for those He died for, that it Sanctified them. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and it means:

1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul


Christ's sacrifice, contrary to the sacrifice of the OT Offerings, which purified outwardly as Per Heb 9:12

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Neither did the OT sacrifices take away the guilt of sin Heb 10:1-4

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So, the Death or Offering of Christ far excelled the OT oblations for God's Chosen People, in that is #1 Took away the guilt of their sins, once and for all, and that it provides internal purification !

Now also the word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is in the perfect tense in the greek ! The Perfect tense means:

an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated

Now, this Truth should be believed by any who say they are Believers in God's Truth.

If this Truth is believed, then the other scriptures that appear to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, cannot be teaching that, unless all without exception have in fact been sanctified once and for all by the blood of Christ, and have had their sins guilt put away for good and have or will indeed experience an internal purification. If they do not, then the writer of hebrews has lied, and is proven to be a false witness. Also this Truth establishes the Eternal Security of all those Christ died for ! 5

 

[brightfame52]

Corinth77777

I guess the way you framed this is confusing to me.

let me see if I can translate:

The result of being a continual believer is forgiveness that amounts to regeneration??

Yes you are really confused, I recommend rereading my posts a couple of times and they may help.

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

God loves the unsaved people of the world

Only the ones He saved through Jesus Christ, the rest He hated, thats why they shall perish

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes a beautiful scripture, that teaches us it is by His Life in us (The Spirit of Life in Christ) that empowers us to walk in the newness of life; The resurrected life in Christ.

I like here how you said resurrected life...
I see that as Holyghost power.

or Gal 2:20 passage


I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


question ? What is the faith of the son? I
think it has to do with being immersed in God's presence by believing God is totally in controll.

Or one can say we live because of Christ's faithfulness. He lives forever,

But here is the best scripture I ever saw in kjv Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

And who is said to Justify? God

Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God”.

So depending on how one interprets- the faith of Jesus is God.

God is
God is in controll
God is the beginning and the end
God is Love
God is faithful

God- I am that I am
Predicated on His own being

so how does God justify?

now if we take the Faith of Christ as faith meaning religion what one believe in >its God

However if we take the Faith of Christ as as something Christ did as His faithfulness that would show He interceeds for us because He lives forever.

or the Faith as in His obedience to God
so then our faith is in God. And our Faith is God.

And God is His word and God's word is God

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:10

It is the Spirit that enables and empowers us to walk in dominion over our flesh.




JLB

Heb 10:10,14

We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now the writer of Hebrews says this about the accomplishment of Christ's death for those He died for, that it Sanctified them. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and it means:

1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul


Christ's sacrifice, contrary to the sacrifice of the OT Offerings, which purified outwardly as Per Heb 9:12

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Neither did the OT sacrifices take away the guilt of sin Heb 10:1-4

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So, the Death or Offering of Christ far excelled the OT oblations for God's Chosen People, in that is #1 Took away the guilt of their sins, once and for all, and that it provides internal purification !

Now also the word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is in the perfect tense in the greek ! The Perfect tense means:



Now, this Truth should be believed by any who say they are Believers in God's Truth.

If this Truth is believed, then the other scriptures that appear to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, cannot be teaching that, unless all without exception have in fact been sanctified once and for all by the blood of Christ, and have had their sins guilt put away for good and have or will indeed experience an internal purification. If they do not, then the writer of hebrews has lied, and is proven to be a false witness. Also this Truth establishes the Eternal Security of all those Christ died for ! 5

It causes Gospel obedience to those He died for !

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The being made perfect here means by fulfilling every stipulation of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, to include His obedience to death as per Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19, He became the Author of Eternal Salvation, to those obeying Him.

This means His Perfect obedience causes/authors their obedience. Evidence therefore of Christ having died for someone, is that they become obedient to the Gospel commands of God. The word obey in Heb 5:9 is the greek word hypakouō

and means:

to listen, to harken

a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)

2) to harken to a command

a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to

It means to harken to a command. Now what were the Gospel commands ?

One is Repentance ! Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This word commandeth in the greek is in the present tense, God through the preaching of the Apostles was commanding repentance from all whom Christ had died for. Not only was this just a bare command, but God because of Christ wrought their obedience in them through the Preaching of the Apostles !

Paul states in Rom 15:18

For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Christ wrought by Preaching the obedience of elect gentiles ! Thats why we have Heb 5:9 That Christ is the Author of Salvation to who ? Why those obeying Him, those obeying the Gospel, those who hearken to the command to repent ! Another Gospel command that they shall hearken to is to Believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Again, Christ work, wroughts obedience to this command, in them whom He died for. He causes their obedience.

And He wroughts obedience in them to the command to Love one another, that is brotherly love.

Lets look at this command given by Christ to His disciples See Jn 13:34;15:12,17

Peter says in 1 Pet 1:22,23

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: What did he base this on ? Vs 23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Thats who the Gospel commands are for, those being born again. They are the ones who are commanded to Repent, to Believe, and to Love one another, and Christ is the Author of them obeying Him !

Now if this is what you were trying to say: makes more sense

 

[Corinth77777]

Corinth77777



Yes you are really confused, I recommend rereading my posts a couple of times and they may help.

Well thanks so much ! Lol

 

[Corinth77777]

Corinth77777


Hi, Im showing how them for whom Christ died for as a result shall be regenerated and born again, that shows the saving efficacy of His Death and Resurrection, is that important to you ?

Okay now that you wrote something else I think I know what your Thesis statement is.

Your theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved.

I See even though I might not be able to put it in words right now.

But if I may take a shot at something else. Hopefully without being slapped in the face again.

You are saying people are predetermined to be saved.

And at this point I agree with exception

The predetermined part is Christ and all who are attached to Christ are predetermined.

 

[Corinth77777]

Heb 10:10,14

We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Now the writer of Hebrews says this about the accomplishment of Christ's death for those He died for, that it Sanctified them. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and it means:

Now I reading this am not sure if thats what it is saying, but its worth the study. But this is what I read:

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

So its more like to me sounds as if His body was offered Once to set people apart for the work of God. For both the next verses confirm this.

1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul


Christ's sacrifice, contrary to the sacrifice of the OT Offerings, which purified outwardly as Per Heb 9:12

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Neither did the OT sacrifices take away the guilt of sin Heb 10:1-4

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Because of the weakness in the flesh-

2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

And this is true when you are forgiven you no longer have a guilty conscience - especially after if you remain in Him

3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Why is there a rememberence again because the law did not take away sins it covered them? Right?

4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

THERE IT IS

So, the Death or Offering of Christ far excelled the OT oblations for God's Chosen People, in that is #1 Took away the guilt of their sins, once and for all, and that it provides internal purification !

WHY CANT GOD'S CHOSEN BE ANYONE CONNECTED TO HIS SON BY BELIEF IN WHO HE IS WITH INTENT TO FOLLOW?

ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD FOR A SON AND GOD CREDITED HIM AS RIGHTEOUS. HE HAD A LEGAL STANDING.

Now also the word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is in the perfect tense in the greek ! The Perfect tense means:



Now, this Truth should be believed by any who say they are Believers in God's Truth.

If this Truth

is it a truth?

is believed, then the other scriptures that appear to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, cannot be teaching that, unless all without exception have in fact been sanctified once and for all by the blood of Christ, and have had their sins guilt put away for good and have or will indeed experience an internal purification. If they do not, then the writer of hebrews has lied, and is proven to be a false witness. Also this Truth establishes the Eternal Security of all those Christ died for ! 5

Yes God loved the world and died for all and those who believe receive the benifits of His death and resurrection.

Read the Net version:

NETBible: Hebrews 10

And check out these versions

NETBible: Hebrews 10:10

The words " for all" look like they are added

 

[brightfame52]

Now I reading this am not sure if thats what it is saying, but its worth the study. But this is what I read:

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

So its more like to me sounds as if His body was offered Once to set people apart for the work of God. For both the next verses confirm this.


Because of the weakness in the flesh-

And this is true when you are forgiven you no longer have a guilty conscience - especially after if you remain in Him

Why is there a rememberence again because the law did not take away sins it covered them? Right?

THERE IT IS

WHY CANT GOD'S CHOSEN BE ANYONE CONNECTED TO HIS SON BY BELIEF IN WHO HE IS WITH INTENT TO FOLLOW?

ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD FOR A SON AND GOD CREDITED HIM AS RIGHTEOUS. HE HAD A LEGAL STANDING.



is it a truth?

Yes God loved the world and died for all and those who believe receive the benifits of His death and resurrection.

Read the Net version:

NETBible: Hebrews 10

And check out these versions

NETBible: Hebrews 10:10

The words " for all" look like they are added

You still seem confused on what Im saying, keep reading though, it may become clear.