Butch5
Member
They start out not believing. If they start out not believing how can being blinded result in their not believing? How do you blind someone to something they don't believe?
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More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Butch5
Member
Right, but they had the truth. The Israelites had had God's word. They didn't accept their Messuah. They didnt believe Jesus was their Messiah. As I pointed out, Isaiah prophesied that they would be blinded. Paul states that blindness in part has happened to Israel. Part of the Israelires believed the other part didn't, they were blinded.
Everyone starts out as unbelievers sir because everyone is born spiritually lost and under the power of satan. So the Gospel is hid from everyone initially while they are in a lost state. As long as we remain in a lost state, the Gospel is concealed. Its permanent as long as we are in a lost state.
Truth is hid to them that are lost, jew or gentile ! Im not even going to keep going back and forth about it !
Butch5
Member
Only if one takes the passage out of context. As I said, Reformed theology is a system built on proof texts and you're making my case.
When the Gospel is preached it brings light to those who minds have been darkened.
However, each person who hears the Gospel, must believe in order to be saved.
- For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:3-6
JLB
When the Gospel is preached, its going to fall on the ears of either them which are in a saved state, or a lost state, to them which are lost its hidden, thats what scripture says 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
According to this passage, Mercy preceded Regeneration and any work of righteousness that we have done,
All which is the fruit of Christ giving Himself for us and redeeming us from all Iniquity Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
According to this passage, Mercy preceded Regeneration and any work of righteousness that we have done,
All which is the fruit of Christ giving Himself for us and redeeming us from all Iniquity Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Yes mercy and love preceded redemption, as the scripture so plainly says -
- For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
God first loved, before anyone was redeemed.
In order for anyone to take part in God's plan of redemption, they must first believe.
Believe comes first before redemption.
- whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
Whoever believes has everlasting life.
- How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10: 9-14
Paul asks these questions.
- How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
- And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
So the question remains, how is someone saved without ever hearing and believing in Jesus?
JLB
Christ applies redemption as well !
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Threefold Mediatorial Character as Priest, prophet and King, makes sure that the Salvation He accomplished for all those He died for, is experienced by them, that is, not only was His blood a bare purchase and then He sets back and offers it, but also by Him as King, He applies it to its subjects to give it effect, to bestow its benefits of grace, they being destined to be conformed into His image, which is their total salvation.
For this cause He was invested with all power in both heaven and earth as per Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give[apply] eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
The word power in Matt 28:18 and Jn 17:2 is the greek word exousia:
power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases
a) leave or permission
2) physical and mental power
a) the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises
3) the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)
Jesus made this point very clear, that He has all Power to His [Disciples] at their commission. This was not just to be saying that He has all power, but in and through their witness of the Truth of His death, He would be applying that which He purchased as Priest [His offering of Himself] by His own blood, their salvation. 3
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Threefold Mediatorial Character as Priest, prophet and King, makes sure that the Salvation He accomplished for all those He died for, is experienced by them, that is, not only was His blood a bare purchase and then He sets back and offers it, but also by Him as King, He applies it to its subjects to give it effect, to bestow its benefits of grace, they being destined to be conformed into His image, which is their total salvation.
For this cause He was invested with all power in both heaven and earth as per Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give[apply] eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
The word power in Matt 28:18 and Jn 17:2 is the greek word exousia:
power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases
a) leave or permission
2) physical and mental power
a) the ability or strength with which one is endued, which he either possesses or exercises
3) the power of authority (influence) and of right (privilege)
Jesus made this point very clear, that He has all Power to His [Disciples] at their commission. This was not just to be saying that He has all power, but in and through their witness of the Truth of His death, He would be applying that which He purchased as Priest [His offering of Himself] by His own blood, their salvation. 3
Christ applies redemption as well cont
In Christ's Threefold Character as Priest, Prophet and King, each plays a role in the salvation of those He died and rose, as their Priest, He offered Himself for them, purchases their liberty, their right to life. Heb 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Lk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Notice, the effect , Jesus said He is to set at liberty those that are bruised, not offer them liberty, not make it possible, but He actually sets them at liberty. Its the same word for send forth
Matt 13:41
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
You see, He is acting as King when He sends forth His Angels, to gather out of His Kingdom !
So He applies as King, His work as Priest, He applies the redemption of His blood that He offered..
He sets or makes them free Jn 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The word make means "to set at liberty" from the dominion of sin !
In Christ's Threefold Character as Priest, Prophet and King, each plays a role in the salvation of those He died and rose, as their Priest, He offered Himself for them, purchases their liberty, their right to life. Heb 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Lk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Notice, the effect , Jesus said He is to set at liberty those that are bruised, not offer them liberty, not make it possible, but He actually sets them at liberty. Its the same word for send forth
Matt 13:41
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
You see, He is acting as King when He sends forth His Angels, to gather out of His Kingdom !
So He applies as King, His work as Priest, He applies the redemption of His blood that He offered..
He sets or makes them free Jn 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
The word make means "to set at liberty" from the dominion of sin !
Christ applies redemption as well cont
We have seen that as part of His Threefold Character, that as Priest, He has offered Himself as an offering for sin. Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin[A sin offering] for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Now, as Prophet He makes known to those He died for their forgiveness, He publishes it.
One of things He was to do was to give Light to the gentiles. Lk 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
The word lighten here is the greek word apokalypsis:
a disclosure of truth, instruction
Its a communication of the Knowledge of God to the soul.
The Amplified bible reads :
32 A Light for [a]revelation to the Gentiles [to disclose what was before unknown] and [to bring] praise and honor and glory to Your people Israel.(A)
This was prophesied in the Prophet Isa Isa 42:6
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
This applied also to the elect Jews as well, He made known to them, The True God.
Jn 17:1-3
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
As Prophet, He made Known the True God to all whom the Father hath given Him, of both jews and gentiles..
This was a result of His shedding of the blood of the New Covenant , it ensured a proper and Spiritual knowledge of God Heb 8:10-11
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
So As Prophet, He Reveals the True God to those He died for.
This revealing also denotes making Known to them The remission of their sins. Lk 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
The word knowledge here is to make known as in Matt 13:11
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
As our Prophet, He makes Known unto us our Salvation in the remission of our sins that came through His shed blood Matt 26:28
28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
We have seen that as part of His Threefold Character, that as Priest, He has offered Himself as an offering for sin. Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin[A sin offering] for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Now, as Prophet He makes known to those He died for their forgiveness, He publishes it.
One of things He was to do was to give Light to the gentiles. Lk 2:32
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
The word lighten here is the greek word apokalypsis:
a disclosure of truth, instruction
Its a communication of the Knowledge of God to the soul.
The Amplified bible reads :
32 A Light for [a]revelation to the Gentiles [to disclose what was before unknown] and [to bring] praise and honor and glory to Your people Israel.(A)
This was prophesied in the Prophet Isa Isa 42:6
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
This applied also to the elect Jews as well, He made known to them, The True God.
Jn 17:1-3
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
As Prophet, He made Known the True God to all whom the Father hath given Him, of both jews and gentiles..
This was a result of His shedding of the blood of the New Covenant , it ensured a proper and Spiritual knowledge of God Heb 8:10-11
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
So As Prophet, He Reveals the True God to those He died for.
This revealing also denotes making Known to them The remission of their sins. Lk 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
The word knowledge here is to make known as in Matt 13:11
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
As our Prophet, He makes Known unto us our Salvation in the remission of our sins that came through His shed blood Matt 26:28
28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Christ applies redemption as well cont
Now it has been shown from scripture that Christ as Mediator, plays a Threefold role in the salvation He accomplished by and through His death of the cross, and present sitting on His Throne of Glory. He was the Priest that offered Himself, shed His blood for the sins of all His People, jew or gentile, and He is the Prophet that makes Known this salvation to His People that He died for, and finally, He is the Great King that applies and give effect to this salvation to all that He died. He applies His Salvation by sending the work of the Spirit unto each one He died for, that He [The Holy Spirit] will quicken them with New Life, that He would work in them to both will and to do of His good pleasure.
This is why it is immediately said upon His ascension to the Throne, that He received from the Father, as a reward for His cross work] the Holy Ghost Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
The Holy Ghost is the promise given to Christ that He may shed forth upon all His seed.
This is spoken of in Isa 44:1-3
1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Also alluding to this at the ascension of Christ and He having received in order to give gifts to men is Eph 4:8-11
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
The Holy Spirit embodies all the gifts needed for the completion and application of Christ redeeming work, and this is as King, having conquered, that He sends Him [The Holy Spirit] forth. It is the Holy Spirit whom Christ sheds or pours forth that regenerates and renews all those Christ died for, this is taught here Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Note, the word gifts in Eph 4:8 is the greek word doma, and its the same word used for gifts in Lk 11:13
when speaking of the giving of the Holy Spirit :
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
And thats what King Jesus applies or sheds forth to His redeemed Church !
All the Mediatorial Offices of Christ are essential, not one of them can be neglected. The Office of King can be supposed to supersede that of Prophet and Priest, as it could be supposed that Prophet and Priest could supersede that of King, for it would be meaningless to speak of applying what has not been procured or purchased, but even more senseless to speak of procuring or purchasing what would not be applied, by the Purchaser.
Now it has been shown from scripture that Christ as Mediator, plays a Threefold role in the salvation He accomplished by and through His death of the cross, and present sitting on His Throne of Glory. He was the Priest that offered Himself, shed His blood for the sins of all His People, jew or gentile, and He is the Prophet that makes Known this salvation to His People that He died for, and finally, He is the Great King that applies and give effect to this salvation to all that He died. He applies His Salvation by sending the work of the Spirit unto each one He died for, that He [The Holy Spirit] will quicken them with New Life, that He would work in them to both will and to do of His good pleasure.
This is why it is immediately said upon His ascension to the Throne, that He received from the Father, as a reward for His cross work] the Holy Ghost Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
The Holy Ghost is the promise given to Christ that He may shed forth upon all His seed.
This is spoken of in Isa 44:1-3
1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Also alluding to this at the ascension of Christ and He having received in order to give gifts to men is Eph 4:8-11
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
The Holy Spirit embodies all the gifts needed for the completion and application of Christ redeeming work, and this is as King, having conquered, that He sends Him [The Holy Spirit] forth. It is the Holy Spirit whom Christ sheds or pours forth that regenerates and renews all those Christ died for, this is taught here Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Note, the word gifts in Eph 4:8 is the greek word doma, and its the same word used for gifts in Lk 11:13
when speaking of the giving of the Holy Spirit :
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
And thats what King Jesus applies or sheds forth to His redeemed Church !
All the Mediatorial Offices of Christ are essential, not one of them can be neglected. The Office of King can be supposed to supersede that of Prophet and Priest, as it could be supposed that Prophet and Priest could supersede that of King, for it would be meaningless to speak of applying what has not been procured or purchased, but even more senseless to speak of procuring or purchasing what would not be applied, by the Purchaser.