More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

[Butch5]

Chapter 4 states that the Lost are blinded. Read it, 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Being lost has no respect of persons, all men whether jew or gentile are born lost sinners sir. Read Paul here Rom 3:9

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Another passage out of context. The passage doesn't say they're born sinners. It says they are under sin.

Can you not see how your theology affects how you see Scripture? You're interpreting both of these passage based on preconceived ideas.

You're ignoring the context of chapter 3 to impose a preconceived idea onto chapter 4 that Paul is not saying. A while back I said that Reformation theology is built on proof texts. This is exactly what I was talking about. In order to support the idea that all are blinded one must ignore the context in which the statement was made and apply it in a way the apostle didn't intend. He clearly states in chapter 3 who was blinded. It was Israel. He states elsewhere that Israel was blinded. It was prophesied by Isaiah that Israel would be blinded.

This is probably the biggest problem in Christianity, that Christians are taught to proof text rather than study the Bible as a cohesive whole. The problem is that Christians read these "leaders" who don't have a good grasp of the Scriptures and then they buy into the theologies that these "leaders" promote. Then instead of seeing the Bible as whole they are simply shown certain passages that supposedly support the theologies of these "leaders".

One thing every Christian should understand is that when we find passages of Scripture that run counter to our theology, our theology is wrong. Change it, not the Scriptures.

 

[brightfame52]

Another passage out of context. The passage doesn't say they're born sinners. It says they are under sin.

Can you not see how your theology affects how you see Scripture? You're interpreting both of these passage based on preconceived ideas.

You're ignoring the context of chapter 3 to impose a preconceived idea onto chapter 4 that Paul is not saying. A while back I said that Reformation theology is built on proof texts. This is exactly what I was talking about. In order to support the idea that all are blinded one must ignore the context in which the statement was made and apply it in a way the apostle didn't intend. He clearly states in chapter 3 who was blinded. It was Israel. He states elsewhere that Israel was blinded. It was prophesied by Isaiah that Israel would be blinded.

This is probably the biggest problem in Christianity, that Christians are taught to proof text rather than study the Bible as a cohesive whole. The problem is that Christians read these "leaders" who don't have a good grasp of the Scriptures and then they buy into the theologies that these "leaders" promote. Then instead of seeing the Bible as whole they are simply shown certain passages that supposedly support the theologies of these "leaders".

One thing every Christian should understand is that when we find passages of Scripture that run counter to our theology, our theology is wrong. Change it, not the Scriptures.

No its not out of context, its in the context. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4 and you cant wiggle out of it !

 

[Butch5]

No its not out of context, its in the context. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4 and you cant wiggle out of it !

You're claim is using the passage out of context. The passage doesn't say that anyone who doesn't believe is blinded.

You should be careful here. You are dealing with the word of God. You are teaching. Remember what Paul said, don't be a teacher because you'll be held to a higher standard.

 

[brightfame52]

You're claim is using the passage out of context. The passage doesn't say that anyone who doesn't believe is blinded.

You should be careful here. You are dealing with the word of God. You are teaching. Remember what Paul said, don't be a teacher because you'll be held to a higher standard.

The scripture Im referring to is in the context. 2 Cor 4:3-4 Sorry you cant dismiss it, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, resulting in unbelief.

 

[for_his_glory]

Huh ? Well what does the post says ? How do i seek to explain my view with scripture ?

By using scripture to support that of what you believe!!!

 

[for_his_glory]

Your questions are diversions from discussing my posts. You want me to put effort into answering your verses you go find, and yet put zero effort in the posts I have already put effort into.

I don't see that as you avoid answering others also and divert the conversation to something else. Why is that? There is no shame in not knowing certain things as we are all still learning and can learn from one another if we are opened to learn as long as what others teach us lines up with scripture and not the other way around.

 

[for_his_glory]

No its not out of context, its in the context. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4 and you cant wiggle out of it !

Here is the full context that Jesus is the light, but Satan has blinded those from the truth of the Gospel of light. None of us are born sinners, but are born with a nature to sin when we learn that of good and evil.

2Cor 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Cor 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cor 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[Butch5]

The scripture Im referring to is in the context. 2 Cor 4:3-4 Sorry you cant dismiss it, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, resulting in unbelief.

I haven't dismissed it. I've pointed out numerous times that you're taking it out of context to try and make it say what it doesn't say.

We're dealing with the word of God here. This isn't some storybook written by Joe Smoe. It's the word inspired by God Himself. We really ought to stop and think about that. Are we really willing to be that flippant with God's word that we don't even consider the context in which He had it written?

 

[brightfame52]

Here is the full context that Jesus is the light, but Satan has blinded those from the truth of the Gospel of light. None of us are born sinners, but are born with a nature to sin when we learn that of good and evil.

2Cor 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Cor 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cor 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

I know the context, been knowing it for years.

 

[brightfame52]

I haven't dismissed it. I've pointed out numerous times that you're taking it out of context to try and make it say what it doesn't say.

We're dealing with the word of God here. This isn't some storybook written by Joe Smoe. It's the word inspired by God Himself. We really ought to stop and think about that. Are we really willing to be that flippant with God's word that we don't even consider the context in which He had it written?

After all is said and done, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, which results in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[Butch5]

After all is said and done, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, which results in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

Look at what you're saying, it doesn't even make sense. This should show you that you've got something wrong. The lost already don't believe. So, what you're saying is, the Gospel is hidden from people who don't believe and that leads to them not believing. They didn't believe in the place, they were lost.

You just refuse to a knowledge the context? There's only reason I can see for refusing to acknowledge the context. That being that one doesn't want to be wrong. Remember what James said, God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.

So, you're teaching others yet you refuse to acknowledge the context. That can only lead to people being lead astray. Remember, we answer to God in the end.

 

[JLB]

No its not out of context, its in the context. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4 and you cant wiggle out of it !

But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:2-6

• But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord

Those whom the god of this world has blinded, need the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is why the preaching of the Gospel, the. light and glory of Christ is the only way for them to be saved; by have the light and glory of Christ, shine forth on them through the preaching of the Gospel.


This is what Paul is teaching.


Do you understand?




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Look at what you're saying, it doesn't even make sense. This should show you that you've got something wrong. The lost already don't believe. So, what you're saying is, the Gospel is hidden from people who don't believe and that leads to them not believing. They didn't believe in the place, they were lost.

You just refuse to a knowledge the context? There's only reason I can see for refusing to acknowledge the context. That being that one doesn't want to be wrong. Remember what James said, God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.

So, you're teaching others yet you refuse to acknowledge the context. That can only lead to people being lead astray. Remember, we answer to God in the end.

Sure it makes sense, its as simple as the Gospel is being hidden [permanently] to them that are lost ! 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[brightfame52]

But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:2-6

• But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord

Those whom the god of this world has blinded, need the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is why the preaching of the Gospel, the. light and glory of Christ is the only way for them to be saved; by have the light and glory of Christ, shine forth on them through the preaching of the Gospel.


This is what Paul is teaching.


Do you understand?




JLB

Okay, nothing changes, the Gospel is hidden to the lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[Butch5]

Sure it makes sense, its as simple as the Gospel is being hidden [permanently] to them that are lost ! 2 Cor 4:3-4

People that don't believe are then blinded and that being blinded causes them not to believe? You think that makes sense? If you think that makes sense I'd be leaving the class you're teaching.

Seriously, how does that make sense?

 

[brightfame52]

People that don't believe are then blinded and that being blinded causes them not to believe? You think that makes sense? If you think that makes sense I'd be leaving the class you're teaching.

Seriously, how does that make sense?

Why do you resist this truth ? The Gospel is hidden to them that are Lost. 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

One cannot believe that which is concealed to them. The word hid kalyptō:

1. to hide, veil
   1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing

The word is in the perfect tense so its permanently hid, concealed !

 

[Butch5]

Sure it makes sense, its as simple as the Gospel is being hidden [permanently] to them that are lost ! 2 Cor 4:3-4

How does saying people who don't believe are then blinded and that blinding is the cause of their unbelief? I mean come on man. This is why so many people reject Christianity. Too many many Christians believe things that don't make sense and then they wonder why people reject what they say.

 

[Butch5]

Why do you resist this truth ? The Gospel is hidden to them that are Lost. 2 Cor 4:3
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

One cannot believe that which is concealed to them. The word hid kalyptō:

1. to hide, veil
   1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing

The word is in the perfect tense so its permanently hid, concealed !

Firstly, the perfect tense doesn't mean it's permanent. It means that they were blinded in the past and they remain blinded to the present, which would be when Paul write the letter. However, again, the context shows us that he is referring to the Isrselites.

 

[brightfame52]

How does saying people who don't believe are then blinded and that blinding is the cause of their unbelief? I mean come on man. This is why so many people reject Christianity. Too many many Christians believe things that don't make sense and then they wonder why people reject what they say.

So it doesnt make sense to you that the Gospel is hid to the Lost, resulting in their unbelief ? 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[brightfame52]

Firstly, the perfect tense doesn't mean it's permanent. It means that they were blinded in the past and they remain blinded to the present, which would be when Paul write the letter. However, again, the context shows us that he is referring to the Isrselites.

It does mean its permanent, a once and for all completed act in the past with results into the present. Now as long as one remains in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden, concealed. That word hid also means

1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing

You cant be saved without the knowledge of the Truth, 1 Tim 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.