My latest understanding of who is going to heaven

[GodsGrace]

No need to put “IMO” before most of the points below, right?

The NT often mentions those who were chosen and called.
So, logically we assume that NOT everyone is chosen and called.

Man is totally unable to believe in Jesus and the gospel
because he is:
1 ● a slave to his inherited “fallen” sin nature
2 ● a slave to Satan, in bondage to him, in captivity, etc.
Therefore, God must ENABLE man to believe.

When God says it is not His desire that any man should perish,
He wishes that He didn’t have to reject some people for salvation.
Father God has His reasons for whom He chooses and calls.

The question is:
When EVERY man hears the gospel,
does the Holy Spirit convict him to believe?
And, does God block EVERY man’s 2 hindrances (above)
momentarily … so he is able to believe?

Verses such as John 3:16 are nets to catch the little fishes!
The NT word “believe” cannot possibly just mean to believe – because all of the rest of the NT teaches us
there is MUCH more to it than that.
This just “merely believing” is for the benefit of baby believers.
The Holy Spirit comes in … and they are ready to begin …
the sanctification process, which really is the process of salvation.

The vast majority (or all?) of the chosen and called
become Born Again Christians (BACs).

The NT is written ONLY to BACs
(and to those who will become BACs).
It is for their benefit because all others
have NO hope of salvation.

In the NT, there are many verses which threaten loss of salvation.

So, it’s all about the BAC’s free-will choices to have continuing (enduring) belief, faith, trust, co-operation with the Holy Spirit, obedience, etc.

So, the BAC’s salvation is conditional.

THEN …
Because the vast majority of today’s BACs ignore or reject the NT warnings, along come God’s prophets/watchmen who CONFIRM the NT warnings with their messages from Father God and Jesus.
And then, a blockbuster …
In some of these messages, They have said: BACs have been given
the OPPORTUNITY to walk the narrow path unto salvation!
(It appears They mean that only BACs are given this opportunity.)

So, there are 3 categories of human beings:
BACs going to heaven, BACs not going to heaven,
and non-believers.

I can already hear the cries of outrage!

BAC are NOT going to heaven?
And the above is a mixture of different theologies and is not clear at all.

We can please some of the people some of the time, but we cannot please all of the people all of the time....
WHO are YOU trying to please?

 

[ezra]

That I don't share in your opinion.

wow all that to say you dont share my opinion ..next time say you disagree

There are many others that don't either but you have yet to listen to them (as evidenced by the things that you have posted)

so its your opinion and yours only that counts? i was not aware i had to agree with everything or even you . it seems i am being told i have to be so open minded my brain falls out .gosh its nice to know every thing i post is wrong . thank you so much for pointing out all my faults

 

[Senior]

BAC are NOT going to heaven?
And the above is a mixture of different theologies and is not clear at all.
We can please some of the people some of the time, but we cannot please all of the people all of the time....
WHO are YOU trying to please?

Perhaps the mixture you see is because ...
the churches are NOT preaching the true word of God.
They are preaching false doctrines such as:
grace only, OSAS, prosperity, etc.

I am just trying to please my Lord and Savior,
who called me to be an evangelist 30+ years ago.

 

[ezra]

the churches are NOT preaching the true word of God.
They are preaching false doctrines such as:
grace only, OSAS, prosperity, etc.

no not all are that way

 

[for_his_glory]

Do we scrutinize the scriptures by the doctrines of a persons denomination or non-denomination (flavor of religion) doctrinal traditional teachings or do we study the full context as we read what has already been written. We need to pray first and ask the Holy Spirit teach us by confirming the teachings we are given are truth or error.

A stubborn minded person will fall to their own foolishness if they are not teachable or humbled for correction. We all fail in knowledge at times until someone else brings a new light to the scriptures we did not see before. None will ever be able to exhaust all the teachings in the Bible nor come to full knowledge as we are ever learning, 2 Timothy Chapter 3.

 

[ezra]

the way i see it and might i add i been told i dont listen hmmm there are many denom doctrines i do not agree with . but they all have good points with the exception of j.w Mormons . everybody is trying to do the best they can .the church cong and body of Christ is divided . seldom do we hear of the days of community services .. why is that ? when was the last time you heard of a Pentecostal minister invited to a baptist church to preach? were so busy arguing over osas losing salvation ,is tongues for today are we predestined to the point some people will never have a chance to be saved . the list grows and grows

 

[Bull of the Woods]

As I see it, the view you present here creates another problem. It eliminates the need for repentance, belief, evangelism, and yes, even a Savior because if God predetermines who will or will not be saved, there's not point to any of this. Our fate has already been determined.

I assume you see the view I presented is not mine but others'.

 

[ezra]

WISDOM FROM OSWALD CHAMBERS

It is perilously possible to make our conceptions of God like molten lead poured into a specially designed mould, and when it is cold and hard we fling it at the heads of the religious people who don’t agree with us.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps the mixture you see is because ...
the churches are NOT preaching the true word of God.
They are preaching false doctrines such as:
grace only, OSAS, prosperity, etc.

I am just trying to please my Lord and Savior,
who called me to be an evangelist 30+ years ago.

I had a thread on whether or not believing the incorrect doctrine causes some to be lost.

Is this what you're saying?
I agree that grace only (or faith only) is not in scripture and neither is eternal security or osas, and the prosperity movement is also not biblical...but are you saying those that believe this are lost?

Or maybe those that teach it are?
James 3:1
1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

 

[stovebolts]

The way I understand it, God desires all to be saved (1Timothy 2:4), but there are those who will not believe (John 3:18). It is not Jesus who condemns them, but its their own unbelief and hardness of heart which brings about God's wrath (Romans 2:5).

But for God's elect, is it possible that these are the ones called for the harvest? We are all called to God's good works (Ephesians 2:12) and we all have spiritual gifts, but not all who are called will respond as they bury the talents given freely to them

 

[GodsGrace]

The way I understand it, God desires all to be saved (1Timothy 2:4), but there are those who will not believe (John 3:18). It is not Jesus who condemns them, but its their own unbelief and hardness of heart which brings about God's wrath (Romans 2:5).

But for God's elect, is it possible that these are the ones called for the harvest? We are all called to God's good works (Ephesians 2:12) and we all have spiritual gifts, but not all who are called will respond as they bury the talents given freely to them

What do you mean by God's elect?

 

[ezra]

What do you mean by God's elect?

that just it we fully dont understand God elect the answer depends on who you ask john MacArthur would have one answer and he would say he is correct ask someone else different answer .much like the osas debate {yes debate } every group has a different answer

 

[GodsGrace]

that just it we fully dont understand God elect the answer depends on who you ask john MacArthur would have one answer and he would say he is correct ask someone else different answer .much like the osas debate {yes debate } every group has a different answer

I know this. But we cannot all be right.
I asked StoveBolts what he meant be "elect" because it's a word used by calvinists and I don't think he's a believer of that theology.

Elect just means chosen. We ARE God's elect but it means we are chosen by Him because we've decided to follow in His conditions. This is conditional election. Our election is conditional on the fact that we choose God and to follow Him.

Unconditional Election, the U in TULIP, means that God chooses whom He will saved based on nothing...no conditions...just on a whim of His will based on nothing at all.

This does not seem to me to be what the bible teaches.
To me it teaches:
1. God reveals Himself to all men.
Romans 1:19-20
2. Man decides whom He will serve.
John 3:16
3. This belief in Jesus must endure to the end of our lives.
Mathew 24:13

 

[ezra]

once again it depends on who you ask bolts is church of Christ they definitely are not calvinist

 

[WIP]

I assume you see the view I presented is not mine but others'.

Yes, I was agreeing with you and adding to what you said. My apologies for not be clear.

 

[Senior]

I agree that grace only (or faith only) is not in scripture
and neither is eternal security or osas,
and the prosperity movement is also not biblical
...but are you saying those that believe this are lost?
Or maybe those that teach it are?

I am saying that false doctrines from Satan often cause
a false sense of security for those deceived by them!
These deceived believers then fail to carry out God's plans
for them, which includes obedience to God's commands.
E.G. several NT passages warn of the dire consequences
of being a habitual (unrepentant) sinner, such as in:
1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5, Revelation 21:7-8.
These warnings are written to believers in the churches.

 

[stovebolts]

What do you mean by God's elect?

I believe God elects certain people for certain and specific tasks and roles. It is up to those elected to follow through.

Jacob was elected to become Israel, the tribe of Judah was elected to bring about the Messiah Moses was elected to lead the Israelites out of bondage, Jonah was elected to preach to Niniva. The 12 apostles were elected to spread the Gospel The Bible is full of God's elect and describes their mission as well as their failures and they are testiments to faith that we can take courage from through your own election.

God choose, created and nurtured His elect nation Israel for a purpose ( Deuteronomy 4:6 ) . We Christians now carry that responsibility. Matthew 28:19-20

In short, the Pharisees and some nationalists believed that since they were sons of Abraham, they were automatically "in". They took their election for granted and lost site of their true purpose.

 

[Senior]

john MacArthur ...

MacArthur wrote a book titled "The Gospel According to Jesus"
in which he expounded on many of Jesus' "hard sayings",
which most people are very uncomfortable with.
Truly, the whole book was AGAINST eternal security!
This book is extremely impressive, and was instrumental
in forming some of my current understanding, etc.

To the best of my recollection ...
Some time later, his denomination threaten to banish him
unless he retracted his book, which he did (as far as I know).
(This info is open to review and correction.)

 

[Senior]

I'd like to offer a suggestion as to who/why
God chooses and calls some, but not others.
Several times in the OT, God says He desires to dwell
with those who have humble and contrite hearts.
IMO, these people choose to live this way;
God didn't create them with these attributes.

 

[ezra]

johm mac believes in pos perseverance of the saints those truly saved will stay saved . i have not listened to john mac in a while . i enjoy him but have some differences with him on who can be saved . i will say he is a more milder calvinist and the only one i care to listen to