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National Israel is cursed forever !

vet:

Assigning believing Israelites to the concept of a 'Gentile Church' is ignorance. It is believing Gentiles that are graffed into the Root (Christ) that believing Israel is already attached to.
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I can agree with that, but however, that Israel, The true Israel is comprised of both believing jews and believing gentiles is how all Israel shall be saved.

The Nation of Israel is still cut off..
 
National Israel is no more God's covenant people ! This much is clear from Jesus statement matt 21:


42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.



Also no more technically the covenant children of God rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

That covenant that God had with national Israel, has terminated [cause to cease] at the cross of Christ, the rending of the veil of the temple signified this very thing, yet with that said, ethnic jews are still by the flesh, Abraham's seed, that is, His fleshly descendants, but they are no more now in any covenantal relationship with Jehovah God than Abraham's other fleshly descendants like ishmael and esau.

In fact Paul uses an analogy with Ishmael and his mom hagar the handmaid of Sarah, to describe the now then national Israel at His present, which was rejected from covenant privileges as ishmael and hagar were !

Gal 4:

22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.


23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

One must be blind as a bat not to see that Paul is describing the National of Israel in the above passage, and was in bondage with her children, that is, the majority of the ethnic jews in her.

Paul equates that Israel as having been born after the flesh vs 23 meaning Abraham's physical descendants, after the flesh as Paul calls them in rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

Abraham's fleshly descendants[National Israel] were not under the New Covenant, the Children of God or promise, no more than Ishmael and hagar were admitted into the Covenant, but rejected as here:

gal 4:30

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Again, National Israel, the national people of Paul's day, were said to be cast out and declared not to be heirs with the freewoman and her Children.

Now if National Israel , Abraham's physical descendants according to the flesh, some how do partake of the heirs of promise, then we find Paul here and Gen 21 :10

Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

Both of these witnesses of scripture would be found false witnesses if National Israel according to the flesh has a future restoration into spiritual and national prominence as Gods special people.

National Israel is the equivalent of Ishmael and his descendants now.
 
Read the Old Testament. Read the words of the Prophets. Aside from the redemption, the New Testament is misunderstood by those who never bother to understand it's foundation.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
vet:

Assigning believing Israelites to the concept of a 'Gentile Church' is ignorance. It is believing Gentiles that are graffed into the Root (Christ) that believing Israel is already attached to.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that, but however, that Israel, The true Israel is comprised of both believing jews and believing gentiles is how all Israel shall be saved.

The Nation of Israel is still cut off..
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When God gave Jacob the new name of Israel, there was no specific nation associated with land called Israel. When the Israelites were captive in Egypt, they were called the children of Israel, even though no specific nation associated with land was named Israel.

Israel is the name God gave through Jacob to represent His Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ. That's the spiritual Israel concept Paul was talking about back at Romans 9. That Promise of Salvation was not offered to the Gentile nations as a whole until after Christ came in the flesh to die on the cross.

As for the idea of a 'nation' called Israel, that's still about God's promises to the seed of Israel for this present world. He promised He would always leave one tribe of Israel at Jerusalem for His servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake (1 Kings 11). Even when Israel was no longer known as a nation state in the holy land prior to 1948, that one tribe in Jerusalem was still there, even as they are today.

So how can one say that the nation of Israel is cut off? The fact that there is... a nation state in the holy land today called Israel is proof of what God promised in 1 Kings 11. God's promise to the seed of Israel for this world, is that they would always remain a nation BEFORE HIM (Jer.31). That means a 'people' before Him even through their being scattered among us Gentiles!

Did God preserve a remnant of Israel after the Babylon captivity? Yes; He even increased them! Yet the nation state then called Israel ended by the king of Babylon destroying it. What about when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D., did God still preserve the seed of Israel? Yes. Even with the ten tribes of Israel which He divorced for their false worship against Him, and scattered them through the nations, He promised He would bring them back to the holy land one day, as corn through a sieve, and not one grain would fall to the ground (Amos 9).

So no, the nation of Israel will never be cut off from God, for that's His promise. Whether they exist in the holy land as a nation state called Israel or not, He promised they would always be a nation before Him.
 
rom 11:

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Before the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, gentiles [save for a few of the election of grace] were in the same blindness and ignorance [ eph 4:18; acts 17:30] that the now National Israel is in. Even though National Israel had many advantages [ rom 3:1-2] they were just as spiritually Ignorant of God as gentiles who had not the same advantage.

The Jews are called Ignorant here rom 10:

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

They were just as ignorant as these acts 17:


23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Ignorance of God is Ignorance of God, does not matter if you are really religious and pious in your ignorance, as its seen here with both jews and gentiles.

But God was [by plan and purpose] using Israel's unbelief and grafting in Gentiles who do believe, So God's Justice on one group was His mercy on the other [ see rom 11:22]; And Just as God used the unbelief of National Israel to fulfill His purpose for the ingrafting and call of the elect gentiles into Covenant Israel [ see eph 2:19], So likewise He can and will call the elect Jews back into Covenant Israel [ as Individuals not as the whole Nation] it is a remnant. All ethnic Jews are not cursed and ct off from God's covenant promises, just because the nation as a whole is; However their conversion[ elect jews] will come about primarily through the Gentiles as predicted here Isa 61:

6But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

compare with rom 11:

12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
 
To say that Abraham did not have a Spiritual seed is absolutely nonsense, for was not Paul writing to gentiles when he wrote these words gal 3:

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now we know that Gentiles could never be Abraham's seed physically! So this must be Spiritually, so , if Abraham has a Spiritual seed, why not there be a Spiritual Israel ? Is not physical Israel, Abraham's physical seed ? Then I see no reason why His Spiritual seed is not Spiritual Israel !


Are not the Jews the children of Abraham by being of His physical seed ? Matt 3:

9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. [ These stones would be gentile elect]



God was not Limited to physical jews being the seed of Abraham.

Jn 8:

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed [Physical children]; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Now, are not Gentiles children of Abraham by Faith in Christ ? Gal 3:

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

If so, then its appropiate to say they are Jews by Faith in Christ, for they are the children of Abraham.



For the whole reality of being called Israel or a Jew, is founded upon being Abraham's children of seed, whether physically or Spiritually, and for this reason we have scriptures like rom 2:

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



Notice now, paul is saying in essence in vs 28a, mere physical descent of Abraham, no more constitutes one a Jew in Gods sight.

rom 9:

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God [Or Israel]: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed [Israel].

Gal 6:

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
 
shad said:
If we don't accept Jesus as the Lord and the Savior, we will be cut from God forever.
.
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You better hope God accepted you, or you will be cut off forever.
 
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Romans 11:25-26



22Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. Zechariah 8:22-23
 
I read and comprehended all the subliminal messages up to the 2nd page of this O.P.P.. Here's my thoughts/pearls on the subject:

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
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Yet the anti-christ-ians teach an earthly kingdom regardless :guitar of the word. :pray
 
Food for Thought:
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgement I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Jhn 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
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In Isaiah's message of judgement on Jerusalem:
Isa 29:10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: And he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Isa 29:17 Is it not yet a little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
Isa 29:19 The meek also sall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 29:20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
Isa 29:21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
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:study
 
rom 11:31

rom 11:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

As God used the jews unbelief [ national israel] as the occasion to graft into Covenant Israel, the Elect Gentiles [see acts 15:14] God will also use the preaching of the gospel to reach Elect Jews, remember Paul said 1 cor 9:

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So through the mercy of the gentile church, a elect remnant of ethnic jews will come to a Saving Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ
 
rom 11:32

rom 11:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

For God hath concluded all men [jew and gentile] in unbelief, in order that He can demonstrate His Sovereign Mercy upon all men [ Jew and Gentile], for it was always God's purpose to have His Sovereign Mercy Glorified outside of National Israel.

You see, what Abraham's physical offspring did not know, was that God had given Abraham a seed [spiritually] that was comprised of all nations Gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

That was the First seed God called Him to believe in !
 
rom 11:33

rom 11:

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


Paul after musing upon this great Mystery of Israel, the Israel of God, and how God was able to graft in the world [ gentiles] into Covenant Israel [The Spiritual seed of Abraham] , and Save all Israel was a matter of High Praise and admiration of Gods Judgments and Wisdom.

Rev 7:

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
 
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
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I think modern day Israel falls under this definition. :clap

Luk 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed [is] he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one [consent] began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
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