National Israel is cursed forever !

[savedbygrace57]

vet:

You're not heeding what God's Word says

Apparently you are not. Abrahams physical descendants are not of the children of God rom 9:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:21

rom 11:


21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.



Paul was warning the gentiles, the new corporate Representative of the Covenant Israel [ see Matt 21:43], this privilege was taken from National Israel permanently, and given to the gentile Church; But the gentiles must not become highminded, because this privilege to them is solely by Sovereign Grace, and not of their own doing. The ethnic jews were the natural branches, in that God established a National Covenant with them [ ex 20-24] also see heb 9:16-20. This National Covenant was temporal[by design] external, and conditional on National obedience, and served only as shadow or type of the Everlasting Covenant secured by the blood of the Great Shepherd, a Covenant confirmed before in Christ Gal 3:17. For it was the Everlasting Covenant with Christ, that formed the basis of the Gospel being preached to Abraham in Gen 12:3-4 ; Gal 3:8

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:21 cont

Rom 11:21 cont

The Promise God gave to Abraham, " In you shall all nations be blessed" was the gospel [a purse unconditional promise of grace to Abraham], this gospel promise was proclaimed to Abraham not only before the death of Christ, but before also the giving of the Law to Moses [which established National Israel as a Covenant People];

What God promised Abraham correlates with what God accomplished through Jesus Christ, which is God's fulfillment of His promises to Abraham, all the promises of God are yeah and amen by Christ 2 cor 1:20. All the promises to Abraham and His seed are fulfilled by Christ and believers in Him [ who belong to His body and are one with Him] of both jew and gentile, because Abraham was not the Father of just one nation, but of many Nations, and that is why His name became Abraham gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

This even takes precedence over the ethnic jews as Abraham being their Father by the Flesh.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:22

rom 11:

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Paul here brings to us a sobering reality, or at least it should, that God is Love to some, but to others [the rest] He is quite severe [ to cut off] and vengeful. All those outside of elective Love, jew or gentile, and trample under foot, the Son of God, beware Heb 10:


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Though this exact sin is not committed as Israel of old, its twin sister sin is being committed today by the religious and the profane world by rejecting the True Gospel of the Son of God and everyone believing a gospel of their own devising.

On those who fell [ in unbelief] God was severe, that is, on those who were not of the election rom 11:7, God had no mercy on them, but they were vessels of wrath [ rom 9:22]; But to the elect gentiles, Gods Mercy or Goodness has been shown, if they indeed continue in His good ness, else they to shall be cut off.

Note, perseverance in good ness or the Love of God is not a condition one must of themselves meet to partake of His saving Mercy, but rather perseverance is a evidence that one has partaken of Gods goodness and Love, even the sure mercies of David. We are of Christ house if we evidence it by continuing to hold fast the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end, if not, then we really never were made partakers of Christ Heb 3:

14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Because He is faithful over His own House [ which He builds] heb 3:

6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

In OT times the house of God was the house of Israel lev 22:18; num 12:7 heb 3:5; symbolized by the Tabernacle and Later the Temple, which were in Israels midst ex 25:8 and ezk 37:26; Now in NT times the house of God was represented by by the church, the local congregations [ see rev 2-3] 1 tim 3:15, for the children of Israel or Nation of Israel served as a type of the church in the NT [ 1 cor 10:1-11] their history prefigured the church.

And Just as that wicked Nation was cut off, in the Last time the church because of apostasy will also be cut off..

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:23

Rom 11:

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Paul here is saying, not that the nation as a whole is to be grafted back in as God God's National Covenant people again, for that is over and done with, its purpose has been served, but as alluded to earlier, if individual ethnic jews [ like Paul himself 1 tim 1:13], continue not in unbelief, then those individuals will be grafted back into the Covenant Israel [rooted in Christ], which of course meant they were of the election of grace, but just being converted at a later time.

For God is able to graft them in again, not freewill, for Faith is by God's power, His ability, its not of ourselves, but the gift of God's power working in us both to will and to do of God's good pleasure, this gift is to His elect. eph 2:8; titus 1:1 1 pet 1:5; phil 1:6..

When Paul prayed for Israel to be saved rom 10:1, He certainly was not praying for the whole Nation to be saved, for He just concluded that only a remnant shall be saved [Rom 9:27] but for that part of the rejected Nation that belonged to the election of grace [the remnant], for remember [rom 9:6], also the same is True of rom 9:1-5,

Paul's burden was not for the whole nation of Israel, but only His brethren within her, that was like himself, of the election of grace, of that Israel which was in National Israel [rom 9:6]. It is nothing wrong with praying for and desiring the conversion of people of our own ethnicity, but understand, their conversion is only possible if they belong to the election of grace, that elect world Jesus came to save Jn 3:16-17.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:24

Rom 11:

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Paul here is again reemphasizing that just as the elect gentiles had been grafted into the Olive Tree [ The True Israel of God] so too those ethnic jews who believe, will also be grafted into the True Israel of God. National Israel's rejection and covenant privileges were not taken away because of their ethnicity, but because of her overall unbelief.

Also before that, Paul points out how even the gentiles had once been ignorant of God through Christ, and strangers to the covenant of promises, and Just as God hath made a way to graft us into the Covenant Israel, he can also do the same for ethnic jews who may presently be in unbelief. This is not a national thing however, but a individual thing, just like the grafting in of the gentiles was not a national thing but individuals.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Paul has been preaching on the Mystery as per eph 3:

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

eph 1:

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

eph 3:

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

col 1:

26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


rom 16:

25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

{Note, The Mystery is a intricate part of Paul's Gospel He preached for God and Christ}

1 cor 2:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

No doubt Paul refers here to God's wisdom in the formulation of the Church, Jew and Gentile Israel as He did in romans 11 where He concludes with these words:

rom 11:

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:25 cont

It is no secret that the larger part of the Nation of Israel has been blinded, and only a small remnant in her shall be saved [ rom 9:27] which remnant is the Israel which the promises were unto, but this blinding would continue until the fulness of the gentiles be come in [ which completes the Israel of God, the gentile aspect of Abraham's Seed],

For this was the Mystery, that the Gentiles [Abraham's seed] would be fellow heirs and of One Family [ Abraham's seed or children] the Family of God, with the ethnic jews [ the remnant rom 9:27] who had been the True Israel of God, and so, when God has completed converting all the elect gentiles and whatever elect ethnic jews, and grafting them into the True Israel of God, then [ in that manner] all Israel [ the whole seed of Abraham] shall be saved.

So National Israel's blindness will never be ended, but it will remain in part [ practically the whole nation] all the way up to the fulness of the gentiles, and that will usher in the end; hence, for those of you who are expecting the Nation of Israel will be converted and bear fruit, you are greatly deceived see Matt 21:

19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Forever means forever folks, straight out of the mouth of Jesus Christ.

The fig tree here is a symbol of the Nation of Israel Jer 24:

2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

5Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

8And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:

This fig tree [ matt 21:19] was full of leaves, but without fruit unto God, meaning that at the time, the Nation as a whole [ except some] was nothing but show [ matt 23:24,25] but had no fruitful relationship with God, nothing about that Nation pleased God, generally speaking.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:26

Rom 11:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

And so [ in this manner] all Israel [ the spiritual seed of Abraham] shall be saved. That is, in the manner that is dictated by the Mystery, that the gentiles, who in times past, in the flesh, the uncircumcision [ the wild olive tree] who were typically without Christ, aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, strangers apart from the covenants of promise, without God in the world, being made nigh by the blood of Christ, and now no more strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints [ the OT Saints, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob] and the Household of God [ the elect remnant of jews] The commonwealth of Israel [ they are Israel of God too] this is how all Israel shall be saved. Its not by a national ethnic Israel conversion, but by the grafting in of the gentile elect into the commonwealth of Israel with the elect remnant of saved Jews.

What must be remembered is that all the seed of Abraham is intended, which is comprised of both Jew and gentile believers. rom 4:


10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 11:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The Apostle in summing up that it was in the manner of God converting the elect gentiles and placing them along side the elect Jews, that this is how all Israel shall be saved, He then calls his readers to understand, that it was Christ coming into the world and redeeming His People as the foundation for their deliverance.

This is not a future coming, but a coming that already took place. Israel has been redeemed from all her iniquities already ! Lets look at look luke1:

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Paul is quoting a Prophecy from Isiah of the New Covenant Isa 59:

20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

see heb 8:10;10:16 referring to the New Covenant, which was in Christ blood Matt 26:28 !

Isaiah 60

1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [ grafting in of gentiles into Covenant Israel]

4Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. [grafting in of the gentiles]


Of particular interest is a significant change Paul made in Isa. 59:20, which reads thus in the Old Testament:


And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and to them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

Paul quoted it, "shall come out of Zion." This change by Paul was due to his avoiding a misunderstanding.

Isaiah's prophecy referred to the first coming of our Lord, in which the Lord both came out of Zion, and also to Zion; and without the change he made, the passage would have seemed to refer to the second coming. By the change, Paul said that the Lord has already come to Zion, and also has already come out of it.

This forbids any supposing that Christ will return "to Zion," as some vainly suppose will be the case when all the Jews are converted! Paul's use of Isaiah's prophecy makes it necessary to understand it as already fulfilled !

When did God take away Jacobs sins ? It had to be at the cross, when Christ came the first time to take away the sin of the world, when Christ came to save His people from their sins, when He came and was raised up a Saviour unto Israel..

Jn 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

acts 13:

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel [Jacob] a Saviour, Jesus:

acts 3:

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
__________________

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:27

Romans 11:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Which Covenant can be none other than the Everlasting / New Covenant; That promises forgiveness of sins, that they will be remembered no more heb 8:

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Which Covenant that has been established by the blood of the New Testament Matt 26:

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The taking away of sins as in rom 11 27 and the remission of sins as in Matt 26 28 are closely the same.

To take away sins , the word is aphaire? which means to:


to take from, take away, remove, carry off

2) to cut off

and the word for remission in matt 26 28 is aphesis:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

The root word is aphi?mi:

to send away

So its easy to understand Paul to be talking about the blood of the New Covenant that is what takes away their sins in rom 11:27.

There is no other way God takes away the sins of any people, save through the blood of Christ.



This therefore is not something that is yet future for the Nation of Israel, but it has already taken place for that Nation [ The elect remnant in it] and for the rest of the elect gentiles in the world. Jn 11:

50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Lets look at vs 52 and notice the phrase " The children of God", now lets look at rom 9:

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

What do we notice ? That the same phrase " The children of God" being contrasted to the children of the flesh [ Abraham's seed according to the flesh] but His [ Abraham's seed according to promise] that are the children of God.

The same difference as in Abraham's son by the flesh [ Ishmael] and Abraham's Son according to the word of promise [ Isaac], So back in jn 11 52, the prophecy is that He [ Jesus Christ] should die for the children of God or Promise [ in National Israel] and for the children of God or promise [ scattered out into the gentile world]; And so it was this death of Christ, for the children of God, that took away the sins of Jacob or Israel.

Many are deceived into believing that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming again to take away the sins, the blindness of National Israel, but those people are going to be disappointed to say the least.

 

[Drew]

Re: rom 11:21

rom 11:


21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.



Paul was warning the gentiles, the new corporate Representative of the Covenant Israel [ see Matt 21:43], this privilege was taken from National Israel permanently, and given to the gentile Church; But the gentiles must not become highminded, because this privilege to them is solely by Sovereign Grace, and not of their own doing. The ethnic jews were the natural branches, in that God established a National Covenant with them [ ex 20-24] also see heb 9:16-20.

Although I have not read others posts yet, I agree with this analysis. The nation of Israel served a vital function in the plan of redemption. However, as of the cross, any "special status" for the nation of Israel has been dissolved.

 

[savedbygrace57]

drew:

,

any "special status" for the nation of Israel has been dissolved.

Thats right. God was gracious in that He reserved within her a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:28

rom 11:

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Paul here is back to identifying the Two Israels as in rom 9:6; As concerning the Gospel [Israel according to the flesh] which was comprised mostly of National Israel as a whole, concerning them, they are enemies for your sake [Elect Gentiles],

but as touching the Election [ Israel according to promise, the small Jewish remnant] they are Beloved for the Father's sake, that is Abraham, Issac and Jacob, who were related to Jesus Christ [spiritually] .

So again, God hath not cast away the entire race of jews, for Paul keeps reminding, that some in that nation as he himself are of the foreknown [ rom 11:1-2], and those are Gods real Covenant People, those foreknown in Christ and who eventually believe on Him.

Most who oppose this teaching, that National Covenant Israel has been rejected, set aside, and cursed, charge us with being anti semitic, but that is not the case at all, because all people who are not foreknown in Christ, regardless of ethnicity [ jews no exception] are rejected of God and Christ and accursed. Matt 7:

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew[foreknew] you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now it is those who believe that because of race, being a ethnic jew, that they are special to God in some kind of way, especially spiritually, it is they who practice racism, and racial pride, which is evil before God, for it is nothing but the hateful sin of pride.

So remember, any people who are not of the foreknown of God, having been chosen in Christ [ God's Beloved Son] before the foundation of the world, they are a hated, rejected people, no matter what your race is, or where you live geographically.

The blinded Nation was the means by which God grafted in the Elect Gentiles, So National Israel were enemies for that cause, and there are yet in National Israel, that were beloved [ like Paul] for the Fathers sake, like Abraham, whom Himself was beloved of God, having been Chosen in the Beloved Son, that is what makes any People beloved, not race !

 

[savedbygrace57]

You guys trying to understand all these OT scriptures, when God has given Paul the wisdom to understand them and apply them to the New Covenant. I don't believe non of you have the wisdom that Paul has of the OT and Israel, so it would be wise to follow His Teaching on Israel, especially rom chapter 11, instead of trying to fit them into your own natural understanding. A lot of the things the OT Prophets uttered, they did not themselves understand, and things that were met for those under the New Covenant.

1 pet 1:

10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[Ashua]

Replacement theology is such an ugly demonic doctrine of devils. Gentiles do not replace Israel. Gentiles become part of Israel.-- They become naturalized by the adoption of sons. The native sons are not cast out. They become brothers.

 

[veteran]

Jer 31:35-36
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
(KJV)

That's right, no amount of well-wishing by those who think God has cast the seed of Israel off forever can change what God has OPENLY DECLARED there in His Word. The seed of Israel shall be a nation before Him for ever.

There is no such thing 'The Gentile Church' written in God's Word. There is only the Church of God, which is the Body of Christ's believers of both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles. Apostle Paul also called it "the commonwealth of Israel"...

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(KJV)

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 11:

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So Paul tells the elect gentiles that National Israel [most of the ethnic jews in the nation] they are enemies to the Gospel, in the purpose of God, in order that He may Justly graft them into Covenant Israel [ The election of grace of ethnic jews] and then he adds that according to the election [ The election of grace of ethnic jews] they are Beloved for the Father's sake.

Now even though the Nation of Israel has been broken off as God's national covenant people, this by no means will cause God not to be Faithful to those ethnic jews who are the called according to His Purpose [ rom 8:28,29 ; 9:24 ], those who are foreknown [rom 11:2] God's cutting off of the Nation did not mean He no longer had those that He loved [as individuals] with an everlasting Love through Christ, in the Nation, No as was mentioned earlier, there is even now within her a remnant according to the election of grace [ rom 11:5] For God providentially arranged that for the Father's sake [ Abraham] there is still a remnant of Abraham's natural seed, remaining in the election of grace.

Also in the same balance, because of the long ago prophecy of the conversion of the gentiles, the hardening [ also prophesied] of the greater portion of Abraham's natural seed was also without repentance, for that is how God purposed [ acts 15:17-18] to Give His Gift of Salvation to the Gentiles, through their hardening and unbelief. So God is being Faithful to His gifts and callings towards both the Jews and the Gentiles. Within the cut off nation there would remain a remnant of the election of grace, and because of the cutting off of the nation, God grafted in the election of grace from among the Gentiles, Oh what Wisdom God has displayed.

 

[jasoncran]

that verse on the gentiles, the gentiles are used to provoke the hebrew to jealousy in order that they might return to him.

 

[veteran]

Assigning believing Israelites to the concept of a 'Gentile Church' is ignorance. It is believing Gentiles that are graffed into the Root (Christ) that believing Israel is already attached to. That's what Paul is showing in Romans 11:1-5 about the seed of Israel which God preserved, the remnant according to the election of grace is how Paul described them.

Apostle even goes so far as to say that if believing Gentiles that are graffed in fall away like the unbelieving of Israel did, then those Gentiles also shall be cut off like unbelieving Israel. And for that reason Paul commanded believing Gentiles not to boast.