National Israel is cursed forever !

[GodspromisesRyes]

isreal isnt the church if that was the case then why would the lord also tell the jews in jerusalem that you shall not see me unto you say

barruch bashem adonai

if that was mean to the church why?

notice that Jesus specifies " jerusalem"
Mat 23:37 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Paul tells us that:Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

THIS is the jerusalem that jesus spoke that too- those of the bondwoman, those who did not believe so their house was to be left to them desolate.:Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

What is this other than this:Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

But those who truly were Israel of them did believe and were saved and inherited the promises these are of heavenly jerusalem above which is free.and which we because of faith were grafted into.

Rom 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


See paul speaks two ways here: He speaks of Israel after the flesh- and Israel after the Spirit. those of the flesh are said to NOT be the children of God, nor to get the promises- but in isaac is the seed called(later shown to be JESUS). so that " they are not all israel which are of israel"

Those of the flesh, who were broken off because of unbelief, whose house was made desolate who are of the bondwoman and were to be cast out, who are in bondage- those are they that are " not all israel which are of israel" Paul shows yes they are israel after the flesh but they are not all israel. those who are all israel are those called in isaac- called in that seed Jesus Christ. We are from heavenly jerusalem and have recieved the promises the church.


So Jesus says to the jerusalem that is in bondage that they shall not see him until they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Why would they say that? Because a remnant of them will be saved and grafted back in! So some of them will say that! and be saved! and they will see him- just as we do. but not all will. And who will they be speaking of when they say " blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"? THEY WILL BE SPEAKING OF US! Pauls tells us that Gods plan is to use us, who were not his people but now are beloved to stir up jealousy in them to provoke them. When they see CHRIST IN US the remnant will believe and they will say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. then they will be grafted BACK IN to the same vien they came off of that we were grafted onto- making us all ONE. There is no seperate body of believers. We are the children of God- not those after the flesh. WE are Israel- those broken off who do not come to faith are those who " are not all israel who are of israel". " ALL ISRAEL" is all elect jews and gentiles saved by faith in Jesus Christ made united in one body by His Spirit.






Something to notice that helped me is that God has a way in the scriptures of calling people after the FLESH ( their carnal nature or fleshly line) by their flesh name " jacob""abram""sarai"""simon". But when He is speaking to them after the SPIRIT he calls them by the names He gave them " Israel" " abraham" sarah" peter" OO and " paul" instead of saul! amen This shows us if God is speaking to people of the flesh or sppirit.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Remember, the key to this study, is what Paul says in rom 9:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel [Israel of God], which are of Israel [ Nationally]:

Spiritual Israel [ The election of grace]

PS 106:


4Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

If scriptures like this one had only meant National Israel, the seed of Abraham according to the flesh [ rom 9:8a] we would not have any hope, for non jews would have no interest in them at all; However this psalm and many other scriptures of this nature, essentially apply to the election of grace [ rom 11:5], they never did apply in a essential way [ Just typically] to the Lords national people, but they did apply to them figuratively and are fulfilled fully and completely to that Spiritual Israel or Israel of God of whom Paul writes rom 2:

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

gal 6:

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Now notice David's request in vs 5 of ps 106

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

What Nation ? 1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

What inheritance ? Deut 32:

9For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

eph 1:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Now is not God's Inheritance in this context those chosen in Christ [eph 1:4] before the foundation of the world ? This people is the same Inheritance that belongeth to God in deut 32:9 For God has only one people as an Inheritance, and that people had been chosen in the Son of His Love.

Mic 7:

18Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

The NIV reads:

18 Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.

So David is eying The Spiritual chosen in Christ, Gods Inheritance, even in the OT times. For David already knew He was part of Israel of the flesh, He was it's King, but He dared not presume upon the Israel of God, Spiritual Israel...

 

[stranger]

But is Israel older than the church? Not at all- Israel IS the church!

Act 7:37 ¶ This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your

brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Hbr 4:1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hbr 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

The church has been for a very long time the mystery was that God would come live IN His people- And that God would graft the gentiles into the covenant with Israel by faith making them ONE and no longer strangers. The church is not new- just the new covenant to that church, Israel is new( in Christ Jesus) which brought us nigh to them and gave us access to everything they had in their covenant making US one of them united in the same Spirit.

Hi GodspromisesRyes,

'Israel is the church' won't sit well with replacement theology. On the basis of Acts 7:37,38 those assembled at Mt Sinai Luke calls 'the church in the wilderness' with (we could say) Moses being a type of Christ. That's fine.

The perspective that the church is older than Israel is more problematic because we have Pentecost (which many regard as the birth of the church and certainly the giving of the Spirit). Also Luke's comment 'church in the wilderness' is a far later historical reference while those assembled at Mt Sinai received the identity as 'Israel' much sooner. That would make Israel older than the church. But my argument in the previous post (without re-reading it) was about the Kingdom of God...

take care

 

[stranger]

Remember, the key to this study, is what Paul says in rom 9:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel [Israel of God], which are of Israel [ Nationally]:

Spiritual Israel [ The election of grace]

PS 106:


4Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

If scriptures like this one had only meant National Israel, the seed of Abraham according to the flesh [ rom 9:8a] we would not have any hope, for non jews would have no interest in them at all; However this psalm and many other scriptures of this nature, essentially apply to the election of grace [ rom 11:5], they never did apply in a essential way [ Just typically] to the Lords national people, but they did apply to them figuratively and are fulfilled fully and completely to that Spiritual Israel or Israel of God of whom Paul writes rom 2:

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

gal 6:

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Now notice David's request in vs 5 of ps 106

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

What Nation ? 1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

What inheritance ? Deut 32:

9For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

eph 1:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Now is not God's Inheritance in this context those chosen in Christ [eph 1:4] before the foundation of the world ? This people is the same Inheritance that belongeth to God in deut 32:9 For God has only one people as an Inheritance, and that people had been chosen in the Son of His Love.

Mic 7:

18Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

The NIV reads:

18 Who is a God like you,
who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever
but delight to show mercy.

So David is eying The Spiritual chosen in Christ, Gods Inheritance, even in the OT times. For David already knew He was part of Israel of the flesh, He was it's King, but He dared not presume upon the Israel of God, Spiritual Israel...

dialogue?

 

[jasoncran]

thanks stranger. and what of the unfufilled prophecies of all nations going to mt.zion to worship, hard to render that as the body of crist.

isreal will be used to bring men in to the fold during the millenial reign and also the 144,000 during the tribulation.

if they are only christian gentiles/ jew mix why name the tribes?

christianity isnt a tribe.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

thanks stranger. and what of the unfufilled prophecies of all nations going to mt.zion to worship, hard to render that as the body of crist.

isreal will be used to bring men in to the fold during the millenial reign and also the 144,000 during the tribulation.

if they are only christian gentiles/ jew mix why name the tribes?

christianity isnt a tribe.

jason that is a fulfilled prophesy! What happened when salvation came to the gentiles? ALL nations of people came to worship Christ! gentiles means nations it is the same word. watch this awesome thing:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So How do all these nations come to mt zion to worship????


Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.


See AMEN! when we come to Christ in the new covenant we COME TO MT ZION! the CHURCH!. That was not hard to make the body of Christ at all. See for some reason your flesh gets the idea that this prophesy meant that all literal nations, that is countries or individuals would come but that is not what it means, it means all nations of people will hear and have people who believe and worship there not just the jews anymore.. When the gospel began to come to the nations and we began to believe, of every tribe people language then this was fulfilled!

"isreal will be used to bring men in to the fold during the millenial reign and also the 144,000 during the tribulation."

No one comes to faith in the millenium. But we are used now to bring all nations to worship God through the preaching of the gospel. There are two seperate groups of 144,000. Both preach the gospel. Both are the hchurch but one is all jews the other is from " amoung men". The gospel will be preached continuing until the end of the tribulation and men will be saved of all nations including a remnant of jews but we are made ONE and we all come to MT ZION when we are saved. We all worship God in SPIRIT and TRUTH.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Hi GodspromisesRyes,

'Israel is the church' won't sit well with replacement theology. On the basis of Acts 7:37,38 those assembled at Mt Sinai Luke calls 'the church in the wilderness' with (we could say) Moses being a type of Christ. That's fine.

The perspective that the church is older than Israel is more problematic because we have Pentecost (which many regard as the birth of the church and certainly the giving of the Spirit). Also Luke's comment 'church in the wilderness' is a far later historical reference while those assembled at Mt Sinai received the identity as 'Israel' much sooner. That would make Israel older than the church. But my argument in the previous post (without re-reading it) was about the Kingdom of God...

take care

well I am not sure what is so hard about it. What promises did we inherit in Christ? Who were those promises given to? Well the first messianic promise was given to adam and eve, but even after that we see that the promise- before the law- was given to ABRAHAM.- In Christ we are told that WE are the children of abraham.Rom 4:13 ¶ For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:


Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.


Rom 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.


Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

If abraham is not the church then how is he our Father? How did he knowingly await the same holy city heavenly city as we and be partaker of it made perfect in us.
Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The gospel promises were given to abraham and His seed. He was saved by faith just as we are, He waited for the same thing that we obtain in Christ and Christ coming and salvation being by faith was fulfillment of what was promised to Him. Surely He is not sepeate from us, the promise was to abraham- and His seed Christ which we are now in and we inherit the same promise.

 

[jasoncran]

thanks stranger. and what of the unfufilled prophecies of all nations going to mt.zion to worship, hard to render that as the body of crist.

isreal will be used to bring men in to the fold during the millenial reign and also the 144,000 during the tribulation.

if they are only christian gentiles/ jew mix why name the tribes?

christianity isnt a tribe.

jason that is a fulfilled prophesy! What happened when salvation came to the gentiles? ALL nations of people came to worship Christ! gentiles means nations it is the same word. watch this awesome thing:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So How do all these nations come to mt zion to worship????


Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.


See AMEN! when we come to Christ in the new covenant we COME TO MT ZION! the CHURCH!. That was not hard to make the body of Christ at all. See for some reason your flesh gets the idea that this prophesy meant that all literal nations, that is countries or individuals would come but that is not what it means, it means all nations of people will hear and have people who believe and worship there not just the jews anymore.. When the gospel began to come to the nations and we began to believe, of every tribe people language then this was fulfilled!

"isreal will be used to bring men in to the fold during the millenial reign and also the 144,000 during the tribulation."

No one comes to faith in the millenium. But we are used now to bring all nations to worship God through the preaching of the gospel. There are two seperate groups of 144,000. Both preach the gospel. Both are the hchurch but one is all jews the other is from " amoung men". The gospel will be preached continuing until the end of the tribulation and men will be saved of all nations including a remnant of jews but we are made ONE and we all come to MT ZION when we are saved. We all worship God in SPIRIT and TRUTH.

actually yes, we saints are raised till after the millenial reign , so who is in it? the saved or the survivors of the tribulation. egypt? is there? what is that? if its only a spiirutal thing as in a literlay device then all why wite so poetically about something? who lot verses to describe a spiritually building.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Vs 17

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

This verse is extremely important, and will show that both ethnic jews and non jews are the Israel of God, or the Israel of promise, or the election of grace.

Paul is here saying, that if some of the branches be broken off [ The rejection of the Nation as a whole ] They were broken off the Israel of promise [ the remnant Israel of grace] and by their being broken off, and other branches from another wild olive tree were grafted in the good olive tree, then that would now make them that were grafted in, the same with those whom they were grafted into with, The Israel of God.

Thats pauls point in eph 2:

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

 

[veteran]

Why do so many brethren listen to false prophets today who treat everything the OT prophets wrote involving Israel like it is fulfilled history? There's multitudes of OT Scripture about Israel's restoration back to the lands of promise God gave their fathers, and with one King over them, The LORD Himself.

The very last phrase in the last verse of the Book of Ezekiel even gives the future new name of Jerusalem as "The LORD is there" (Yahaveh Shamah!). In that same Ezek.48 chapter is the specific layout of land where the twelve tribes of Israel are reestablished back in the land, and that establishing cannot be compared to any time since God split Israel in two after Solomon's days.

I can understand preachers in pulpits today who are called as evangelists to mainly preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ. But a lot of them don't know the Old Testament Books as well as they should. And the seminary schools don't stress that they should do that.

I tell you, you'll miss a whole lot of understanding in God's Word without understanding what has not been fulfilled in the prophets. You're not going to have that covered for you in most Churches today either. We have to do it for ourselves. And that's impossible if one is led to believe everything written in the Old Testament Books is already fulfilled history.

 

[jasoncran]

this will sound crazy to the gentile, but me and my bro and others being hebrews and christians have the internal witness that God is coming back to restore isreal.

i listen to paul wilbur's music and that reminds me of the day when i can worship with the men of the ot that are my family in the flesh, david,and many others.

thanks veteran,

i read the ot first then nt when i got saved.

i was a jw, and needed to relearn the bible but the lord did also say that i am a jew and need to know the history of my people.

i am glad that i have the ot in its entirety before the nt. that isnt to say that i am fully versed and infallible.

 

[adam332]

I haven't read all the pages. But, I did see people talking about the church this and Israel that, and this is gonna' happen to them, and something else will happen to those folks.

This may be kinda' fundamental to some of you, but my Bible is very clear. End times shows two groups. Wheat/Tares, Goats/Sheep, Righteous/Wicked, Damned/Saved, etc... Over and over, cover to cover, our Bible clearly portrays the good guys and the bad guys. It uses, parable, prophecy, foreshadowing, and often plain language. But one thing is consistent there are only two groups.

A particular fate for the good guys, and a particular fate for the bad guys. That's it. One body, one fate. All believers, Israelite, Gentile, and pre-Israelites, such as Adam, Enoch, Noah.

All believers...one fate at the same time. It's simple and it's one of the most repetitive messages in the Bible.

Adam

 

[jasoncran]

of course the little thing some here seem to miss is this, that God is going to use Isreal to destroy the devil!

 

[adam332]

of course the little thing some here seem to miss is this, that God is going to use Isreal to destroy the devil!

Really?
I guess I'll have to cut this section out of my Bible...
Rev. 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Kinda' looks like God's responsible but my visions iffy these days, maybe it actually says "Israel".

Adam

 

[jasoncran]

of course the little thing some here seem to miss is this, that God is going to use Isreal to destroy the devil!

Really?
I guess I'll have to cut this section out of my Bible...
Rev. 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Kinda' looks like God's responsible but my visions iffy these days, maybe it actually says "Israel".

Adam

ISREAL IS THE BAIT. what is the devil attacking. if you know anything the hebrew history, satan has always attempted to either persecute the jew or destroy them all

from the haman to hitler. the protestants and the catholics killed jews and also other so called christians as vengeance for them crucificying Lord.

please read up on your history, as that is what satan wants to do is destroy is isreal. the lord lets him get close and its done for him. of course , HE is bound for a thousand yrs.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

actually yes, we saints are raised till after the millenial reign , so who is in it? the saved or the survivors of the tribulation. egypt? is there? what is that? if its only a spiirutal thing as in a literlay device then all why wite so poetically about something? who lot verses to describe a spiritually building.

The wicked heathen nations that lived through the tribulation are the ones in the millenial reign being ruled over with a rod of iron by Jesus and the saints who were beheaded by the beast and did not take his mark or worship his image.- When speak about describing a spiritual building are you speaking of new jerusalem? If so the answer is all there contained in it. WE are a Holy Temple and a Holy City built of lively stones. but that will take us into a whole other conversation. So ok as for those in the millenium.

Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 ¶ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

So we see that the saints are ruiling on thrones, and after the enemy goes to decieve the NATIONS in the four corners of the earth. We are told more about these nations

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This is the time of Gods wrath. It is the day of the Lord. I suggest going to read the whole ps i am about to post from but here is where we see that these nations are heathen.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Not only does that psalm show us that this is Gods wrath and us with him ( remember we also shall judge the world) this is the end time desription of Jesus ruiling with a rod of iron over them

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[adam332]

ISREAL IS THE BAIT. what is the devil attacking. if you know anything the hebrew history, satan has always attempted to either persecute the jew or destroy them all

from the haman to hitler. the protestants and the catholics killed jews and also other so called christians as vengeance for them crucificying Lord.

please read up on your history, as that is what satan wants to do is destroy is isreal. the lord lets him get close and its done for him. of course , HE is bound for a thousand yrs.

You said that Israel would be used to destroy the Devil, I showed scripture that says God is responsible. You then say that Israel is the bait. When clearly the same scripture shows they are baited by the beloved city of the Saints. No mention of Israel anywhere.

You say that Satan has always wanted persecute or destroy Jews.

What about the first 2300yrs before a Jew existed?
What about the last 2000 yrs since their commission was stripped from the nation of Israel for not bearing fruit?

Why is Satan using Hitler etc... to persecute and destroy a people that God has cut off? Seems like he would be focusing upon those who received the commission, after it was taken from Israel.

In actuality there was only about 1700 yrs in all of human history, in which literal Israelites played part in Gods plan.

Where are you getting your information from?

Adam

 

[jasoncran]

the beloved city is jersusalem! why does paul say that we are pray for peace for jerusalem? and even after the destruction they ( the apostles) never say to cease praying for jerusalem. then theres the prophecy that isreal will be a heavy stone to all nations.

there is a revival during the tribulation , those saints are jews that come to christ.

that is what i believe. where is the final battle at? harmegiddo. and where is that? isreal?

 

[adam332]

The beloved city is Jerusalem, NEW JERUSALEM, Heaven, the city of God, etc....

This is the heavenly city that the Lord has prepared, the city that bears his name, the city that He abides in....

John 14:2-3 In my Father's HOUSE are many MANSIONS: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU. And if I go and PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU, I will come again, and RECEIVE YOU unto myself; that WHERE I AM, [THERE] YE MAY BE ALSO.

Heb. 11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath PREPARED FOR THEM A CITY.

Heb. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and UNTO THE CITY of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and IN JERUSALEM SHALL BE DELIVERENCE, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Mat. 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, COME, ye blessed of my Father, inherit THE KINGDOM PREPARED for you from the foundation of the world:

2Tim. 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his HEAVENLY KINGDOM: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Zec. 8:7-8 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COUNTRY, AND FROM THE WEST COUNTRY, AND I WILL BRING THEM, and THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

 

[jasoncran]

if its new jerusalem, then reconcile that with the last two chapters of revalation. as new jerusalem is in heaven at present and not the earth.