Nephilim

[jasoncran]

This is starting to sound like we can't say anything in disagreement about Obama because it is racist. Who here is saying we need to become Giant slayers? Or racist towards big people?

Just what do you mean by ramifications Sparrow? Everyone Here, that I have read knows the surface meaning of the Flood. Just some have dug a little deeper after that.

But I want to know what ramifications you are placing on us because we believe the Angel theory?

I may be wrong but some seem to want to "elude" that we are somehow racist for believing this or we are headed in that direction.

some have said that the nephilum would be known by having six toes and accursed. so when they see a giant like andre the giant as a teen they would assume that he might be nephilum. and ostracize him. if you want to know why im saying this pm stovebolts about this topic and ask him why he sees it that way. I cant speak all that he has said to me.

 

[Edward]

I'm trying to not take sides too much. Personally? I don't like the ideas of angels mating with women any more than I like daffodils cross-pollinating with Chihuahuas. But that doesn't mean that others can't believe what they think is right. I do see how many can conclude that angels were what the Scripture talks about.

It's just strange that they can't see why anybody would object. When another Member asked for speculation about "how" such a thing like giants or mighty men or men of renown could continue past the flood without angelic assistance? Well, that's when I remembered the story about Og. It's a good story. I'm very visual so I can almost picture it. He was a giant, right? I bet he could hold his breath for a really long time. Who knows? Maybe his angel daddy helped him too?

I should be careful though because I'm taking about stuff that I know nothing about. That's clear enough, isn't it?

Well, I think that it's fairly obvious that no normal human being could survive the flood. I'm personally perfectly willing to consider alternate explanations to the Angel theory, but as yet, I've heard none. Opinions are widely varied, but we need more than mere opinions and feelings to take serious consideration, wouldn't we?

 

[Edward]

some have said that the nephilum would be known by having six toes and accursed. so when they see a giant like andre the giant as a teen they would assume that he might be nephilum. and ostracize him. if you want to know why im saying this pm stovebolts about this topic and ask him why he sees it that way. I cant speak all that he has said to me.

No one has really said in the thread that they would ostracize large people. I'm not sure where that's coming from here.

My understanding, from listestening to others teaching on the subject, who are more learned than you or I, has been that the modern day Nephilim are genetically making changes so that they are not giants or large in size, but normal looking.

There are many documented accounts of Giants from the past. Even in Buffalo Bills biography, he recounts some Pawnee indians coming into camp with large bones, and him inquiring what are those? He was told that long ago, there were a race of giants who inhabited America , and they had 6 toes and fingers. Whic is suposedly why the indians used to throw their hand up to strangers (and say "how) with the idea being so that they could ensure that the stranger had 5 fingers and not 6. It's in his biography, I'm not making this up.

 

[reba]

I knew a girl....who was born with 3 fingers on each hand and her thumbs... and 4 toes on each foot

 

[King James]

These are all of the Bene Elohim sons of god in the bible.
Different source versions of Genesis 6:1-4 vary in their use of "sons of God". Some manuscripts of the Septuagint have emendations to read "sons of God" as "angels". Codex Vaticanus contains "angels" originally. In Codex Alexandrinus "sons of God" has been omitted and replaced by "angels".[23]
Genesis 6:2
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim[b] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Job 2:1-2
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Job 38:7
when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Psalms 29:1
Ascribe to the Lord, O heavenly beings,[a]
ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.
a. Psalm 29:1 Hebrew sons of God, or sons of might

I'll rest with this post. Fill in sons of seth or angels where it says sons of god. Make up your own mind which fits.

 

[Edward]

Wasn't it quite a few chapters later in scripture that the admonishment (commandment?) to not wed Cannanites was given? I think it was...Chapter 11 for that IIRC?

 

[gr8grace3]

I am with the view of Angels. Anybody on here that believes otherwise, would you lay out what you believe the "sons of God" are instead of attacking the angel view.

 

[reba]

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are we not Sons of God.... and who here is an angel ...

 

[JLB]

JLB,

In his most recent post, Jasoncran included a link to scholars who believe that Angels were involved as the sires of the Nephilim. You have asked for others to speculate on how they may have survived the flood? Footnote #8 from the quote from chabad.org (that Jason provided above) gives us one such explanation:



If we think that the term means "men of renown" or "mighty men" -- I would venture to say that there are many here even now. If we think the terms means "Giants" then there are also many here even now. If the term is defined to mean "the offspring of angels and human women" then you're right, it must be angels. Are there any here now? I don't see it.

I don't know how to accept opinions about disputed meanings as the ultimate authority.

~Sparrow

The Talmud, Niddah 61a, explains that Og (who was a giant, and one of their descendants) survived the great flood by holding onto Noah’s ark and staying close to it.

Og was a giant, which is the offspring.

Giants were created when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them... Genesis 6:4

Og was not a called a son of God. Og was a giant.


Sparrow, do you believe that a giant survived by hanging on to the Ark and staying close to the boat for 40 days with no food?


21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man.
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. Genesis 7:21-22

all flesh died that moved on the earth...and every man.


Anything in that Talmud about Jesus being the Messiah?


JLB

 

[Edward]

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are we not Sons of God.... and who here is an angel ...

That's a very good question, reba. No man is an Angel. No man is born a "son of God". My belief is that we may become a "son of God" after some re-newing...a "new birth" if you will. Would you agree with this?

 

[Edward]

JLB...."AND, every man" Interesting how that is phrased, is it not? ;)

 

[JLB]

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are we not Sons of God.... and who here is an angel ...

So, is it your belief that Godly men saw that women were beautiful and took for themselves wives of who they choose and had intercourse with these daughters of men, and the result is there children were hideous giants that God chose to wipe out by flooding the whole earth?

Is that what you believe Reba?

Godly men and women produce giants like Goliath?




JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB...."AND, every man" Interesting how that is phrased, is it not? ;)

Yeah, Its almost as if The Holy Spirit were trying to teach us something.


JLB

 

[King James]

These are all of the Bene Elohim sons of god in the bible.
Different source versions of Genesis 6:1-4 vary in their use of "sons of God". Some manuscripts of the Septuagint have emendations to read "sons of God" as "angels". Codex Vaticanus contains "angels" originally. In Codex Alexandrinus "sons of God" has been omitted and replaced by "angels".[23]
Genesis 6:2
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim[b] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Job 2:1-2
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Job 38:7
when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Psalms 29:1
Ascribe to the Lord, O heavenly beings,[a]
ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.
a. Psalm 29:1 Hebrew sons of God, or sons of might

These examples cannot be connected with the new testament or other parts of the old testament that use the term sons of god. To argue with anything that is not translated from Bene Elohim is not the same sons of god, and is not a scripturally based argument and is a poor attempt to side step these quoted verses.

 

[Edward]

Yeah, Its almost as if The Holy Spirit were trying to teach us something.


JLB

Interesting how the Lord does that in His Word.

 

[agua.]

agua, you're correct when you say that it is interesting. Are you convinced that it is relevant? In other words, have you been able to prove that the word folly describes sexual misconduct in every case?

Gday SparrowHawke,

Whether it's relevant depends on if it supports the hypothesis imo. Since folly may imply sexual It doesn't matter if it's only used once in that way because it allows for the option. There are many words which are used differently and few which have only one use.

I'm trying to not take sides too much. Personally? I don't like the ideas of angels mating with women any more than I like daffodils cross-pollinating with Chihuahuas. But that doesn't mean that others can't believe what they think is right. I do see how many can conclude that angels were what the Scripture talks about.

It's just strange that they can't see why anybody would object. When another Member asked for speculation about "how" such a thing like giants or mighty men or men of renown could continue past the flood without angelic assistance? Well, that's when I remembered the story about Og. It's a good story. I'm very visual so I can almost picture it. He was a giant, right? I bet he could hold his breath for a really long time. Who knows? Maybe his angel daddy helped him too?

I should be careful though because I'm taking about stuff that I know nothing about. That's clear enough, isn't it?

I don't think it's strange when people don't accept the hypothesis but I do think it's strange when people dismiss it because they think it's a disgusting thing to contemplate.There's nothing that surprises me considering the evil of satan and men.

Here's some ideas of how the Nephilim continued after the flood.

1. The sons of God who were disobedient before the flood did not die, because they were angels, and continued procreating after. ( I don't like this idea though because 2 Peter 2:4 suggests these Angels were cast into Tartarus ( interesting this special place for some angels for some reason ) )

2. More angels fancied women after the flood.

There are very real ramifications to the belief, yes.
Pitfalls that need to be avoided. The warning about the flood and the reason is "ungodliness" -- sormething that none of us want to fall to. It's always easier to assign fault to an outside source, but really? How can that help?

The Nephilimn hasn't been presented as the only reason Yahweh flooded the Earth; or at least I don't suggest that. We know that satan has many followers today with only a portion following knowingly and it makes no difference who someone blames because there's only one way to avoid the next "flood". Sparrow do you believe devils are upon the Earth today ?

There's more interesting things which may show why God was sorry He made animals as well in Gen 6 but I won't get carried away some people might stone me :biggrin.

 

[King James]

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are we not Sons of God.... and who here is an angel ...

ACTS 12:15

View attachment 4133

Based off of your post, what do you make of this verse? Is our ghosts/spirits/souls angels? One could argue that it was the same angel that let him out of prison that the woman thought it was even though it doesn't make any sense. Why would it sound exactly like him? Off course, even when we talk about angels, aren't there at least a half a dozen types of them in the bible?

 

[reba]

Act 12:14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate.
Act 12:15 And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel.
Act 12:16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw him, they were astonished.
Act 12:17 But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren. And he departed, and went into another place.
Those guys didnt believe it was/could be Peter.

 

[Edward]

2. More angels fancied women after the flood.

Maybe. This could be, because only a small group of the Angels defiled themselves with Women to begin with. however, I don't think they did it the same way after the first batch were punished, and for that reason.

The book of Enoch says that the spirits of the nephilim which were killed, were the very ones which became the so-called "evil spirits" which roam the earth today (seeking embodiment as they do). This makes sense to me, since the fallen Angels "petition for mercy" through Enoch to God was denied and they are not redeemable it says.

 

[agua.]

Maybe. This could be, because only a small group of the Angels defiled themselves with Women to begin with. however, I don't think they did it the same way after the first batch were punished, and for that reason.

The book of Enoch says that the spirits of the nephilim which were killed, were the very ones which became the so-called "evil spirits" which roam the earth today (seeking embodiment as they do). This makes sense to me, since the fallen Angels "petition for mercy" through Enoch to God was denied and they are not redeemable it says.

How do you reconcile this with 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 and what do you think Tartarus is ? Oh hang on are you suggesting the sons of God who sinned before the flood are in Tartarus but the spirits of the pre-flood Nephilim are the devils of today ? hmmm how do you explain the post-flood Nephilim of Numbers 13:33 ?