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New guy intro

J

Jonathan

Member
Sorry for that long title. Just wanted to introduce myself before I start asking questions and causing a ruckus. Let's get down to the nitty-gritty. I'm an unbeliever who loves to study the bible but from a historical/critical perspective. By that I mean that I really want to know what Jesus REALLY said and did. I was raised Christian but I lost my faith once I became interested in the Bible and began reading it seriously. On one hand, I wish I could be a Christian. It provides somewhat of a "unified theory" in which you can explain all things in life. However, I also love the fact that I don't have the answers to everything and I have a lifetime to search out those answers without the constraints of dogmatism that I think all religions can't help but to create.
I look forward to respectful and enlightening discussions about God, the Bible, philosophy etc. with those whom undoubtedly are more knowledgeable then myself.

Jonathan
 
reba said:
You are welcome here Jonathan... ask away .. Do keep in mind this is a Christian site... Thanks reba
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Oh yes, I realize this is a christian site. Even though I'm a non-believer I feel like I'm a kindred spirit with most Christians. Thank you for your warm welcome.
 
Jonathan said:
By that I mean that I really want to know what Jesus REALLY said and did. I was raised Christian but I lost my faith once I became interested in the Bible and began reading it seriously. On one hand, I wish I could be a Christian. It provides somewhat of a "unified theory" in which you can explain all things in life.
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Welcome.

Faith in God starts with the conviction of one's sins. That is the 'proof' God sends into the world to testify that he is real.
 
So...... it sounds like you actually do believe in a God... just not in the religious version of Him sold to us?

Me too.
 
Hi Jonathan, welcome, glad to have you.

I'm just curious as to what your definition of a Christian is. I'm hearing more and more statements made that are along the same lines as yours. Raised in the church or formerly in church fellowship, study the Bible, believe in God, looking for answers, etc. That is why I am curious about it.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Let me help...

'Says one thing, does another'.

(Hey, what are those three fingers pointing back at me? Oh, my bad. They're pointing to the guy behind me.)
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And I laugh but it isn't funny. Johnathon, were I not so dedicated to straightening this mess out I would not enter the Church either. Te trouble is I surrendered all of me to God and He loves, even, the pretenders.

l was filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and was very disturbed by the mixed messages I was feeing feeling from people claiming the name of the Christ for their own. With a few teacher led Bible studies, coupled some continuous study of my own, I soon began to understand that few that are members are saved, I call them pretenders.

I'll know more as you reveal yourself here but I am leaning toward you are also Indwelt, saved. I think you have been put upon by some members of a local Church Body and are in need of honest fellowship. I pray you find that here.
 
th1b.taylor said:
l was filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and was very disturbed by the mixed messages I was feeing feeling from people claiming the name of the Christ for their own. With a few teacher led Bible studies, coupled some continuous study of my own, I soon began to understand that few that are members are saved, I call them pretenders.
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Same here. I got saved--for real--and realized there's the 'church of the world' and the real church of born again believers. It was a profound realization for me.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and desire to understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer everyone's questions in this single post.

What I do believe is that there is a God and that he cares most about how we treat our fellow man. Rather than faith being the most important attribute that God wants from us, I believe it's love. Love for God and love for each other. Here are the reason's I'm not a Christian....

1. There are many barbaric passages in the OT that I believe are impossible to explain away. For example, the All Perfect Creator of the Universe would not tell us it's OK to beat our slaves as long as they are not bedridden for more than two days. He would also not tell us that the punishment for a rapist is that he must marry his victim and pay her Father 50 shekels. This leads me to believe it's more likely the Bible was written by flawed men rather than being inspired by God.

2. The many historical errors and contradictions in the NT lead me to believe that the Bible was not inspired by God.

3. I think Paul's teachings contradict Jesus's teachings. Paul never met Jesus and never quotes him.

4. I am not sure we can know exactly what Jesus said because of the way in which the gospel transpired. Fore example, the earliest Gospel is Mark, written in Greek but the disciples spoke Aramaic. Mark wasn't written for 30 years after Jesus' death and the earliest manuscript we have is 150 years after the death of Jesus. How can this situation allow for accuracy in transmission of the words and deeds of Jesus?

5. According to Biblical scholars, around half the books of the NT are either forgeries (authors claiming to be someone they aren't to gain authority) or anonymous. This is widely accepted by virtually all biblical scholars, most of whom are Christians.

You are probably wondering at this point why I'm not a member of a skeptic forum rather than Christian forum. Even with the hang-ups above, I think there is something special about Jesus. I still don't think he is just a particularly enlightened man, I think there is more to it. The problem is that I don't have a high view of scripture so I just don't accept everything written as "gospel". I am hoping that I can somehow resolve the issues I have raised so that I can fully understand and know Jesus. No, I don't want to be a "Christian" but a follower of Jesus.
 
imo, Christian is just a name that was given to followers of Jesus, who by faith believed He was/is the Son of God (God in the flesh) and obeyed Him as their Lord, to distinguish them from those who did not.

One of my long time and dearest friends thinks the way you do. She loves God and lives imitating the moral values of Christ and love for her neighbor. But she lacks the faith to believe He was/is God come in the flesh and the literal Son of God. She lacks the faith to believe that it was by His death on the cross that her sins can be forgive and only by this.
 
Jonathan said:
Thanks for the warm welcome and desire to understand where I'm coming from. I'll try to answer everyone's questions in this single post.

What I do believe is that there is a God and that he cares most about how we treat our fellow man. Rather than faith being the most important attribute that God wants from us, I believe it's love. Love for God and love for each other. Here are the reason's I'm not a Christian....

1. There are many barbaric passages in the OT that I believe are impossible to explain away. For example, the All Perfect Creator of the Universe would not tell us it's OK to beat our slaves as long as they are not bedridden for more than two days. He would also not tell us that the punishment for a rapist is that he must marry his victim and pay her Father 50 shekels. This leads me to believe it's more likely the Bible was written by flawed men rather than being inspired by God.

2. The many historical errors and contradictions in the NT lead me to believe that the Bible was not inspired by God.

3. I think Paul's teachings contradict Jesus's teachings. Paul never met Jesus and never quotes him.

4. I am not sure we can know exactly what Jesus said because of the way in which the gospel transpired. Fore example, the earliest Gospel is Mark, written in Greek but the disciples spoke Aramaic. Mark wasn't written for 30 years after Jesus' death and the earliest manuscript we have is 150 years after the death of Jesus. How can this situation allow for accuracy in transmission of the words and deeds of Jesus?

5. According to Biblical scholars, around half the books of the NT are either forgeries (authors claiming to be someone they aren't to gain authority) or anonymous. This is widely accepted by virtually all biblical scholars, most of whom are Christians.

You are probably wondering at this point why I'm not a member of a skeptic forum rather than Christian forum. Even with the hang-ups above, I think there is something special about Jesus. I still don't think he is just a particularly enlightened man, I think there is more to it. The problem is that I don't have a high view of scripture so I just don't accept everything written as "gospel". I am hoping that I can somehow resolve the issues I have raised so that I can fully understand and know Jesus. No, I don't want to be a "Christian" but a follower of Jesus.
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Dear Jonathan, you have listed an abundance of different things wrong with the word of God we put our trust in, and though we would attempt to address each question or statement you make, it would be better to take them individually to our “Questions for Christians sub-forum of Apologetics & Theology” at the following URL. Thanks.

@ http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?forums/questions-for-christians-q-a.10/
 
Eugene said:
Dear Jonathan, you have listed an abundance of different things wrong with the word of God we put our trust in, and though we would attempt to address each question or statement you make, it would be better to take them individually to our “Questions for Christians sub-forum of Apologetics & Theology” at the following URL. Thanks.

@ http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?forums/questions-for-christians-q-a.10/
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Sorry Eugene, I was one who kind of lead him into making a statement here of what he believes.
 
Deborah13 said:
Sorry Eugene, I was one who kind of lead him into making a statement here of what he believes.
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No problem dear sister. I just thought that there are so many aspects to his opposition of understanding Christianity that he will receive much better responses there. At least I hope he does. :)
 
Jonathan said:
No, I don't want to be a "Christian" but a follower of Jesus.
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That's what 'Christ-ian' means.

And I'm not going to give up the name to the 'church of the world' which has misrepresented it and thus be ashamed of it and avoid persecution just because so many who really aren't Christians have distorted and misrepresented that name.

"...if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name." (1 Peter 4:16 NASB)

I for one will continue to glorify God in this name and not be ashamed of it.

.
 
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