No conditions to be reconciled !

[Jim Parker]

Rom 5:10 says that some were reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of Christ. However that doesn't apply to all mankind.

It does not say that it does not apply to all mankind.
There is nothing in the passage that suggests that Jesus atonement was limited in any manner.
Removed personal comment

 

[beloved57]

It does not say that it does not apply to all mankind.
There is nothing in the passage that suggests that Jesus atonement was limited in any manner.
That is your addition to scripture.
Try not to confuse it with the real thing.

How could it apply to all mankind when many in mankind are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation John 3:18,36 !

 

[Mike]

To all, please stop with the personal remarks. Good content is marred by parting shots.

 

[OzSpen]

j parker

No they havent demonstrated it with scripture. They have quoted scripture and thats about it. After all that, the truth still remains that some sinners are reconciled to God by Christ's death Rom 5:10, and some are not Jn 3:18,36.

I have demonstrated it several times with Scripture but you haven't demonstrated an openness to receive those Scriptures.

 

[OzSpen]

How could it apply to all mankind when many in mankind are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation John 3:18,36 !

ALL are under God's wrath, not MANY, but Jesus has appeased God's wrath for ALL (1 John 2:2 ESV).

 

[OzSpen]

Rom 5:10 says that some were reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of Christ. However that doesn't apply to all mankind.

That's not what Rom 5:10 (NIV) says. Here is what it states: 'For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!'

 

[Cygnus]

That's not what I read in the Scripture: 'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance' (2 Peter 3:9 NIV).

From God's Word we know that God wants all to come to him and none to perish. On that basis, God is making salvation available to all. Why would He make salvation available to all if 'God owes no person salvation'?

Oz

One has to ask...who is the anyone?
..Anyone of the Jews?
Anyone of the Gentile?
Anyone of the...elect?

You then asked "Why would He make salvation available to all if 'God owes no person salvation'?"
You're saying God owes mankind salvation? Why?

 

[reba]

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

 

[Jim Parker]

One has to ask...who is the anyone?

That's very much like Bill Clinton's "It depends on what "is" means."
That straw won't keep you afloat.

 

[Cygnus]

That's very much like Bill Clinton's "It depends on what "is" means."
That straw won't keep you afloat.

All I have to ask is who was Paul talking to and under what context?

 

[Jim Parker]

All I have to ask is who was Paul talking to and under what context?

Slick Willie would be proud of you.

 

[beloved57]

I have demonstrated it several times with Scripture but you haven't demonstrated an openness to receive those Scriptures.

No you haven't demonstrated it. The Truth still remains that some enemies are reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and some are not Jn 3:18,36.

 

[beloved57]

That's not what Rom 5:10 (NIV) says. Here is what it states: 'For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!'

I know what it says. Paul says that believers were/had been reconciled to God while they were enemies. However that does not apply to all, because some while enemies are under Gods condemnation and wrath Jn 3:18,36!

 

[Jim Parker]

No you haven't demonstrated it.

So, I'll correct my statement. The scriptures which demonstrate the fallacy of your position have been repeated posted for you to peruse. The choice for you to actually consider them is out of the posters hands. That is your responsibility.
Nothing can be demonstrated to you that you don't want to know.

 

[Cygnus]

Slick Willie would be proud of you.

I would venture to say hermeneutics isn't in your biblical vocabulary.

You seem to force the bible to say what you think it should say. Sometimes you get it right...but not always.

 

[Jim Parker]

oops

 

[Jim Parker]

I would venture to say hermeneutics isn't in your biblical vocabulary.

You seem to force the bible to say what you think it should say. Sometimes you get it right...but not always.

True. I actually know what "is" means.

 

[OzSpen]

I know what it says. Paul says that believers were/had been reconciled to God while they were enemies. However that does not apply to all, because some while enemies are under Gods condemnation and wrath Jn 3:18,36!

It doesn't say some people who were enemies of God were condemned and some were not condemned because of limited atonement.

John 3:18 (ESV) states, 'Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God'. This does not teach that some enemies of God are under condemnation and wrath because they were forced to be that way because of God's predestination to damnation.

John 3:36 (ESV) states: 'Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him'. Nothing is said here about how they came to believe or disbelieve. It tells what happens to those who believe and those who don't believe.

A repetitious quoting John 3:18, 36 throughout this thread, I do not find convincing.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

No you haven't demonstrated it. The Truth still remains that some enemies are reconciled to God Rom 5:10 and some are not Jn 3:18,36.

Repetition of the same as, same as verses has no more impact.

 

[OzSpen]

I would venture to say hermeneutics isn't in your biblical vocabulary.

You seem to force the bible to say what you think it should say. Sometimes you get it right...but not always.

One has to ask...who is the anyone?
..Anyone of the Jews?
Anyone of the Gentile?
Anyone of the...elect?

You then asked "Why would He make salvation available to all if 'God owes no person salvation'?"
You're saying God owes mankind salvation? Why?

This is a standard Calvinistic reply to the content of 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV), 'Not wanting anyone to perish'. ANY means ANY not ANY Jews, ANY Gentiles, ANY of the elect. It means ANY people.

2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) states, 'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some [Gk. tines] understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone [Gk. tinas] to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The Greek tells me that 'some' (tines) understand slowness BUT God does not want anyone (tinas) to perish. As A T Robertson, an eminent Greek scholar of the 20th century, put it,

'Some will perish (verse 7), but that is not God's desire. Any (tinas). Rather than "some" (tines).... God wishes "all" (pantas) to come.... See Acts 17:30; Rom. 11:32; 1 Tim. 2:4; Heb. 2:9 for God's provision of grace for all who will repent' (Robertson 1933:176).

Oz

Works consulted
Robertson, A T 1933. Word Pictures in the New Testament: The General Epistles and The Revelation of John, vol 6. Nashville, Tennessee: Broadman Press. Also available HERE.