*** No one actually makes choices

[Danus]

This might ultimately get moved, or locked, or computers might just get thrown through windows, but I thought it'd be fun to post it anyway with a bold statement to say that NO ONE MAKES CHOICES. We only think we do, but all we are actually doing in life is stepping into our own fates to-which there is no alternative.

I've brought this up before, and some of my friends hate it, but others have started to see it as true also.

BALDERDASH! , you say? (or whatever you say to reflect Senseless talk or writing; nonsense) :

Well then what do you say?

 

[ColdBlooded]

Prove it.

 

[Danus]

Prove it.

I'll try, but it will ultimately be up to you to accept or deny it.

past, present, future.

We are aware of the past
We are aware of the present
But, are we aware of the future? If Yes, how?

Come on someone....we have to lay some ground work for this.

 

[Danus]

I'll try, but it will ultimately be up to you to accept or deny it.

past, present, future.

We are aware of the past
We are aware of the present
But, are we aware of the future? If Yes, how?

Come on someone....we have to lay some ground work for this.

Here are some finishing questions to lay out the foundation.

Would you agree that there is a moment in time where time is now past, and that we've no means of altering what's past, by the present or the future?

Would you agree that we can not also predict, or alter the past since it is effectively past, and written; done over and said?

Can the future can be altered or predicted by the past?

Can the future be altered or predicted by the present?

Would you agree that the present is yesterdays future? fair enough? What is happening today is what was going to happen yesterday, and what will happen to morrow is today's future? :eeeekkk

 

[felix]

This might ultimately get moved, or locked, or computers might just get thrown through windows, but I thought it'd be fun to post it anyway with a bold statement to say that NO ONE MAKES CHOICES. We only think we do, but all we are actually doing in life is stepping into our own fates to-which there is no alternative.

I've brought this up before, and some of my friends hate it, but others have started to see it as true also.

BALDERDASH! , you say? (or whatever you say to reflect Senseless talk or writing; nonsense) :

Well then what do you say?

You are essentially saying "fate" a hindu/pagan concept - not a Christian concept.

If you are not making choices, who is making those choices (or made those choices) for you? God? So, if you sin, is God making you do the sin?

Please clarify.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Total nonsense. I was raised by a mother who honestly believed that life just happened to you and that trying to pursue your dreams was a mistake if you "were not born into those dreams like other people".

Oddly, dad did not think like this, but he did start LIVING like this after meeting mom. He had owned several businesses and actually started his first one from NOTHING just after his return from World War II. A life with mom did not change his thinking, but he did alter his behavior to stay with her. (Sad, I know.)

I did not realize just how much my mother's thinking had become a part of me until after her death in 1996. (Dad died in 1995 and this was part of it too, in an odd way - 'cause I no longer had him trying to "save me" from this thinking and SOMEHOW from beyond the grave I heard him louder than when he was sitting next to me).

Soon after Mom died, I realized it was time. I was going to move south, advance my income and career, and distance myself from the mental illness that I had been a part of for 40 years.

Today, I am proud to tell you that (oddly, just 1/2 hour ago) my Facebook page proclaims I am an "Overpaid, Underworked Bystander at Kenwood, USA". Yea, my success is still too limited, but I AM making WAY more money than I ever did before coming down here.

And I am happier, I've done things and been a part of activities here that I'd always wanted to do, but had no opportunity back up north. I made up my mind to totally change my life, and have done so.

Stay tuned, because I am in negotiation for yet another (and quite bold) career move. Give me another month or so, and I'll keep ya posted. :yes

I could post all of the verses that support all I have written, but I seldom do that here. WHY? Because I find it distasteful for Christians to sit around and argue about what the Bible "really" means. So if you are waiting for me to quote verses, you can give up.

We make choices every day. And we live with the (good, bad and indifferent) consequences every day as well. We live with those consequences to our very death.


And into eternity, I suspect.

 

[Danus]

You are essentially saying "fate" a hindu/pagan concept - not a Christian concept.

If you are not making choices, who is making those choices (or made those choices) for you? God? So, if you sin, is God making you do the sin?

Please clarify.

I'll answer who ever answers the questions I laid out. they are simple questions, unless someone claims to have a time machine. Don't be afraid.

 

[Pizzaguy]

What is happening today is what what going to happen yesterday, and what what will happen to morrow is today's future? :eeeekkk

Agreed. But what happens three years from now is dependent on what we are doing and what we are making happen today and tomorrow.

The more you post, the more poetic or philosophical you get - and the more wrong you are.

 

[Danus]

Let's try it again. You guys are acting like a bear suspect of bait in a trap.

I'll try, but it will ultimately be up to you to accept or deny it.

past, present, future.

We are aware of the past
We are aware of the present
But, are we aware of the future? If Yes, how?

Here are some finishing questions to lay out the foundation.

Would you agree that there is a moment in time where time is now past, and that we've no means of altering what's past, by the present or the future?

Would you agree that we can not also predict, or alter the past since it is effectively past, and written; done over and said?

Can the future can be altered or predicted by the past?

Can the future be altered or predicted by the present?

Would you agree that the present is yesterdays future? fair enough? What is happening today is what was going to happen yesterday, and what what will happen to morrow is today's future? :eeeekkk

 

[Pizzaguy]

Time travel is, and always will be, impossible for the human race.

But I think God can either travel thru or see thru time. ;)

 

[Danus]

Agreed. But what happens three years from now is dependent on what we are doing and what we are making happen today and tomorrow.

The more you post, the more poetic or philosophical you get - and the more wrong you are.

There is nothing poetic about what I am going to say on this, and you'll find it's quite logical. At which point you'll just have to deal with it as you see fit.

 

[Danus]

:bounceball anyone typing?

 

[ColdBlooded]

There is no way to prove if the choices we make have a meaning.
I can do two things right now, get a Coke or a Pepsi. No matter which I choose, you can say it was my fate to get the one I picked and no other.

It's an impossible concept.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Danus,

I must "deal with it"? You are full of it.

You are a fun person to banter with on here, and I hate to ruin your fun, but I have LIVED THIS. This is no topic that I can debate (in a spiritual or other fashion) as I have LIVED IT.

To TRULY go thru life thinking that life just happens, that we live lives determined by circumstances beyond our control, that we have "a place" in this world determined by "chance, karma," or any other element out of our control is silly to me.

It is silly because I (shamefully) lived like that for over thirty years. I see it as a lie strait from the pits of hell. A lie that destroys lives and destroys the joy in the Lord that He intends for us to live.

Perhaps someone else will play - but look what YOU are doing. I wrote a heartfelt response, and YOU refuse to deal with it. You have ignored it.

Deal with my response and I am sure I will respond. But I placed the ball in YOUR court.

 

[felix]

Would you agree that there is a moment in time where time is now past, and that we've no means of altering what's past, by the present or the future?

Yes, no one can alter the past form present or future.

Would you agree that we can not also predict, or alter the past since it is effectively past, and written; done over and said?

Yes, we cannot alter the past.

Can the future can be altered or predicted by the past?

Yes. We can alter and predict future based on past. this is how we learn from our past mistakes and don't do the same stupid stuff in the present.

Can the future be altered or predicted by the present?

Yes. We can alter and predict future based on present. The future depends on the choice we take at present.

Would you agree that the present is yesterdays future? fair enough? What is happening today is what was going to happen yesterday, and what what will happen to morrow is today's future? :eeeekkk

Yes. So what? I don't get what your question is. How is proves "No one actually makes choices" ?

It is true present is yesterday's future. But, no one will make the same yesterday's mistake again today. This is because, they have a choice to "not do the mistake" again.

 

[Danus]

There is no way to prove if the choices we make have a meaning.
I can do two things right now, get a Coke or a Pepsi. No matter which I choose, you can say it was my fate to get the one I picked and no other.

It's an impossible concept.

Not really. It's a reality unless you suggest that you can choose Coke and then reverse time and choose Pepsi. If you choose one or the other, isn't the one you chose the one you would have chosen?

Danus,

I must "deal with it"? You are full of it.

You are a fun person to banter with on here, and I hate to ruin your fun, but I have LIVED THIS. This is no topic that I can debate (in a spiritual or other fashion) as I have LIVED IT.

To TRULY go thru life thinking that life just happens, that we live lives determined by circumstances beyond our control, that we have "a place" in this world determined by "chance, karma," or any other element out of our control is silly to me.

It is silly because I (shamefully) lived like that for over thirty years. I see it as a lie strait from the pits of hell. A lie that destroys lives and destroys the joy in the Lord that He intends for us to live.

Perhaps someone else will play - but look what YOU are doing. I wrote a heartfelt response, and YOU refuse to deal with it. You have ignored it.

Deal with my response and I am sure I will respond. But I placed the ball in YOUR court.

I will answer your reply. I think you made some good points. I read it and It fits the discussion. I just wanted to lay out some questions first so that we can all be on the same field of play.

So, here is the final question: If you make a choice today to alter the future of tomorrow, and today is yesterdays future, then how is the choice your making today a choice, but simply a reality of what was going to happen today, anyway?

BTW, this is not karma, or chance, because what I'm saying goes against those ideas. This is not some hippy concept here. It's designed for some real thought. I'm not debating anything, just putting something out there for logical thought, and once established we can discuss how it might fit biblical, but I'm not even talking about the bible for say.

 

[Danus]

Yes, no one can alter the past form present or future.


Yes, we cannot alter the past.


Yes. We can alter and predict future based on past. this is how we learn from our past mistakes and don't do the same stupid stuff in the present.


Yes. We can alter and predict future based on present. The future depends on the choice we take at present.



Yes. So what? I don't get what your question is. How is proves "No one actually makes choices" ?

It is true present is yesterday's future. But, no one will make the same yesterday's mistake again today. This is because, they have a choice to "not do the mistake" again.

Then if you make a choice today to alter the future of tomorrow, and today is yesterdays future, then how is the choice your making today a choice, but simply a reality of what was going to happen today, anyway? This is to say, the choices you make today where already written yesterday regardless of your awareness of them or not.

That said, you are not actually altering any future, but only stepping into your own reality (destiny) and this thing we call a choice is actually only an awareness of what is to be.

 

[felix]

Then if you make a choice today to alter the future of tomorrow, and today is yesterdays future, then how is the choice your making today a choice, but simply a reality of what was going to happen today, anyway? This is to say, the choices you make today where already written yesterday regardless of your awareness of them or not.

That said, you are not actually altering any future, but only stepping into your own reality (destiny) and this thing we call a choice is actually only an awareness of what is to be.

Not really! I have the choice at every present moment - irrespective of whether it is yesterday's future or tomorrow's past.

What you are saying applies to computer forecasting programs that take decisions based on the data and information available in the past, but not for humans.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no way to prove if the choices we make have a meaning.
I can do two things right now, get a Coke or a Pepsi.

Come on, is that really a choice?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...this is not karma, or chance...
This is not some hippy concept here.

What is it then...I just got another Joel Osteen CD in the mail?