No Pretrib Rapture

[miamited]

The Tribulation beginning however is not a sign, it is an event , that is why I specifically said there can be no beginning of the Tribulation prior to the Lord gathering His elect .
Everyone would know at that point He was coming.

Hi Consecrated Life

Well, doesn't everyone know that he's coming back now? I mean Jesus was pretty clear on that, wasn't he?

Now, those who don't put any stock in the Scriptures likely won't believe any of it. Just like they aren't going to be aware that the things that are a part of what Jesus defines as the days of great tribulation is upon them. They're just going to think that the world's gotten rough for those silly believers in God because the Great Tribulation is merely a day in which man is going to persecute the church, the people of God. Just as we see people persecuted for their faith now around the world, that's what it'll be like in the Great Tribulation, but just worse. I doubt that there's really a point where unbelievers will say to themselves, "Oh, it's gotten so bad today that this must be the beginning of the Great Tribulation and God's word must be true".

So, I'm not sure that the coming tribulation is really going to set off any alarms among the unbelievers.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life

Well, doesn't everyone know that he's coming back now?

God bless,
Ted

Yes, but without any pre-warning whatsoever .
It is the pre-trib scenario that affords all slackers no opportunity at all to play catch up on anything at all.
Whereas as post trib scenario is custom made for procrastinating slacker Christians , who can very easily say .

" I have been putting off what I need to do for a long time but I now know that the tribulation as commenced I know I should go make it right now because there is not much time left."

And it does even have to be a matter of making something right , there will a multitude of slackers that once the tribulation started would say :

"Time for me to go work helping the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned , Like I have been saying I would do for years but have never done."

No opportunity whatsoever in Pre -Trib scenario for the slacker Christian to easily transition as tribulation events dictate from DEFON-2 To DEFCON-3 Then DEFCON-4 .



TOOLS

Mat 25:5-10
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
¶And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Slackers, huh? Is that the new christian term found in the Scriptures for those who die without faith in Jesus?

Good to know.

I guess that's what I used to be.

God bless,
Ted

 

[for_his_glory]

Exactly that is why there can be no worldwide event prior such as a tribulation to mark the point people would then know He is coming.
There would be no surprise at that point ,just anticipation .

All one has to do is study Matthew 24 as Jesus said all these things must come first before He returns, including the coming of the son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:1-12.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, but without any pre-warning whatsoever .
It is the pre-trib scenario that affords all slackers no opportunity at all to play catch up on anything at all.
Whereas as post trib scenario is custom made for procrastinating slacker Christians , who can very easily say .

" I have been putting off what I need to do for a long time but I now know that the tribulation as commenced I know I should go make it right now because there is not much time left."

And it does even have to be a matter of making something right , there will a multitude of slackers that once the tribulation started would say :

"Time for me to go work helping the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned , Like I have been saying I would do for years but have never done."

No opportunity whatsoever in Pre -Trib scenario for the slacker Christian to easily transition as tribulation events dictate from DEFON-2 To DEFCON-3 Then DEFCON-4 .



TOOLS

Mat 25:5-10
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
¶And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Is there a date that begins the seven trumpets sounding! No, as who is to say we are not already in tribulation times that Jesus told us would happen before He returns. Read Matthew 24 as Jesus answers the three questions the disciples asked Him. IMO, we are in the times of sorrow leading up to the first trumpet sounding and the events that follow each trumpet sounding.

 

[for_his_glory]

But there is an ending in the seventh bowl judgement. The seventh trumpet seems to be describing the same apocalyptic scenario.

Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. (Rev. 11:19)

Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. (Rev. 16:17-21)

Rev 11:15 is the beginning of the seventh trumpet sounding that includes the war in heaven between Michael and Satan, the war on earth, the beast out of the sea, the beast out of the earth, the 144,000, the harvest judgement, preparation of the bowl judgements, great harlot is described, great harlot destroyed, Mystery Babylon destroyed, the second coming of Christ, Satan being bound and let loose and leads a final rebellion, Great White Throne judgement, new heaven and earth, new Jerusalem ushered down.

It's all done in this order.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life

Slackers, huh? Is that the new christian term found in the Scriptures for those who die without faith in Jesus?

Good to know.

I described what I was calling being slack as a Christian , which I myself have been guilty of as well.
Not helping the poor , not visiting the sick , not helping the elderly , forgiving those who have wrong you

Whereas as post trib scenario is custom made for procrastinating slacker Christians , who can very easily say .

" I have been putting off what I need to do for a long time but I now know that the tribulation as commenced I know I should go make it right now because there is not much time left."

And it does even have to be a matter of making something right , there will a multitude of slackers that once the tribulation started would say :

"Time for me to go work helping the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned , Like I have been saying I would do for years but have never done."





s

 

[Consecrated Life]

Is there a date that begins the seven trumpets sounding! No,

Not dates. EVENTS.
The beginning of the tribulation will be the Anti-Christ establishing a peace deal with all of Israel's enemies that allows the Jews to once again have Temple sacrifice .

Dan 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[JLB]

Yes, but without any pre-warning whatsoever .
It is the pre-trib scenario that affords all slackers no opportunity at all to play catch up on anything at all.
Whereas as post trib scenario is custom made for procrastinating slacker Christians , who can very easily say .

" I have been putting off what I need to do for a long time but I now know that the tribulation as commenced I know I should go make it right now because there is not much time left."

And it does even have to be a matter of making something right , there will a multitude of slackers that once the tribulation started would say :

"Time for me to go work helping the sick, the homeless, the imprisoned , Like I have been saying I would do for years but have never done."

No opportunity whatsoever in Pre -Trib scenario for the slacker Christian to easily transition as tribulation events dictate from DEFON-2 To DEFCON-3 Then DEFCON-4 .



TOOLS

Mat 25:5-10
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
¶And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Jesus says the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming; The Second Coming of Christ.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Rev 11:15 is the beginning of the seventh trumpet sounding that includes the war in heaven between Michael and Satan, the war on earth, the beast out of the sea, the beast out of the earth, the 144,000, the harvest judgement, preparation of the bowl judgements, great harlot is described, great harlot destroyed, Mystery Babylon destroyed, the second coming of Christ, Satan being bound and let loose and leads a final rebellion, Great White Throne judgement, new heaven and earth, new Jerusalem ushered down.

It's all done in this order.

Then what is it about the 3.5 years in chapter 11? Shouldn't this seventh trumpet cover the entire great tribulation period of 3.5 years - in ch. 12 and 13?

 

[Consecrated Life]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Jesus says the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming; The Second Coming of Christ.

Yes, I am aware that resurrection bodies are given to both living and departed at the rapture.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I am aware that resurrection bodies are given to both living and departed at the rapture.

Which occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

 

[Consecrated Life]

Which occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

He has only been here once , so yes it follows that the rapture would be His second.

 

[JLB]

He has only been here once , so yes it follows that the rapture would be His second.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[for_his_glory]

Not dates. EVENTS.
The beginning of the tribulation will be the Anti-Christ establishing a peace deal with all of Israel's enemies that allows the Jews to once again have Temple sacrifice .

Dan 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What about the events of the first six trumpets sounding that lead us into the seventh that brings with it the son of perdition. Are they not part of the greatest tribulation that never was or will ever be again?

 

[Consecrated Life]

What about the events of the first six trumpets sounding that lead us into the seventh that brings with it the son of perdition. Are they not part of the greatest tribulation that never was or will ever be again?

The establishment of peace the anti-christ makes with Israel's enemies & beginning of Temple sacrifice will be a clear enough beginning of tribulation & will afford everybody plenty of time to get their house in order .

 

[for_his_glory]

Then what is it about the 3.5 years in chapter 11? Shouldn't this seventh trumpet cover the entire great tribulation period of 3.5 years - in ch. 12 and 13?

It's the chaotic events of the first six trumpets destroying much of the earth's resources that when the seventh is sounded and the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem falsely promising peace and safety for 3 1/2 years that many will be deceived in taking the mark of this beast in order to survive. Those who will not heed Christ warning back in Matthew 24:15-21as they have been taught there will be a Rapture before this happens will find themselves either denouncing Christ and believing the signs and wonders and will take the mark of the beast out of fear, or die a martyr's death if they do not renounce Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

The establishment of peace the anti-christ makes with Israel's enemies & beginning of Temple sacrifice will be a clear enough beginning of tribulation & will afford everybody plenty of time to get their house in order .

So, you do not think that the chaotic events of the first six trumpets that will destroy much of the earth's resources are not a part of this great tribulation?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's the chaotic events of the first six trumpets destroying much of the earth's resources that when the seventh is sounded and the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem falsely promising peace and safety for 3 1/2 years that many will be deceived in taking the mark of this beast in order to survive. Those who will not heed Christ warning back in Matthew 24:15-21as they have been taught there will be a Rapture before this happens will find themselves either denouncing Christ and believing the signs and wonders and will take the mark of the beast out of fear, or die a martyr's death if they do not renounce Christ.

I'm asking you about the 3.5 years of the two witnesses' ministry, that's the sixth trumpet, not the seventh.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm asking you about the 3.5 years of the two witnesses' ministry, that's the sixth trumpet, not the seventh.

Why do so many ignore the first six trumpets that will cause the mark of this beast. When there are no more resources and someone comes along saying peace and safety if you will come to me, what will they do. They will take the mark of this beast as even the very elect of God will be deceived if possible.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.