Read what I wrote to donadams....and if you don't know Messiah's Hebrew name then look in Bemidbar 13:6....you can always Google. I'll give you a hint, it ain't yeshua, that's just the Hebrew word for salvation, help, deliver, ....
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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No where in the Renewed Covenant
- Thread starter Elteqay
- Start date
Cool...shalom to you brother....teshuvah is coming...fruit and flowers make it nice, candles on your table....
The New (Renewed) Covenant is the Renewal of the Abrahamic Covenant that the law of Moses was added to temporarily until the Seed should come with the New Covenant.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19
By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.
JLB
Mungo
Member
Still no answer.
Let's try again.
Do you agree that the mediator of the New Covenant is Jesus?
Yes or No - no prevaricating
Who are the parties to the New Covenant?
Mungo
Member
Paul writes
Galatians 3:
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
We (Jews) are not under the Law
Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)
Paul also says about himself
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law. (1Cor 9:20-21)
Paul himself declares he is no longer under the Law.
But that Covenant is now obsolete as the writer of Hebrews writes:
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)
For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)
When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)
He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)
The Old Covenant never applied to gentiles (except those living in the land of Israel)
Paul says:
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)
Gentiles were strangers to the covenant.
Paul says to the Galatian Gentiles who were Judaising
Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, the son of the free woman through promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and shout, you who are not in travail; for the children of the desolate one are many more than the children of her that is married." Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now. But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman. (Gal 4:21-31)
He is clear. To go back to Judaism (accepting the Law) is to put yourself back into slavery.
He goes on to warn them:.
You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal 5:4)
Paul says in Romans 7:1-6
Are you unaware, brothers (for I am speaking to people who know the law [i.e. Jews]), that the law has jurisdiction over one as long as one lives? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adulteress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and she is not an adulteress if she consorts with another man.
In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter. (Rom 7:1-6)
We [Jews] are put to death to the Law
We [Jews] are released from the Law
There is nothing that shows that kainos can be translated as "renew." Indeed, it is never translated that way. Even in the very next verse the word is used again:
Mat 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.” (ESV)
"Renew" and "renewed" use kainos in forming a compound word, but on its own, it does not mean that.
tim-from-pa
Member
Yes, I know all that. I read the Bible and various translations more times than I can count. Just completed reading Genesis and Leviticus completely in the last few days that's how often I go thru the Bible. but... what does the passages you quoted have to do with the timing of the Sabbath or feast day? I'm not under Law. My works won't save me. I'm under grace. The Lord saves me.
If they believe in the Blood of Yahusha Ha' Masheiac they are ! Besides Kepha preached and 3 thousand came to Messiah the True Called Out Assembly, 20 years before Cornelius and Kepha's vision that Yah did not consider goyim unclean.....you do realize it's about people and not making what gentiles considered food clean.
Kainos doesn't mean new, as in english....besides I copied straight from Vines NT Expository and E.W. Bullinger's Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek NT dictionary.
You may want to reread what I wrote concerning kainos, nowhere did I say it ment renewed. No where.
Did not the Jews kill Christ?
A Jew who believes and is baptized now a Christian and no more a Jew.
All Jewish (Israelite there were 12 tribes not 1) practices ceased with the proclamation of the gospel and the destruction of the temple 70 ad
They pointed to the coming Christ and to continue them is offensive to Christ as if had not come in the flesh!
Matt 23:
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Gal 4:
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Christ replaced David as king
The new covenant replaced the old
The apostolic church replaced Israel Lk 1:32-33 Matt 21:43
Thanks
And, yet, it doesn’t mean “renewed.” Is there any translation that translates it that way? I couldn't find a single one. It is most often translated as "new" (37 of 42 or 44 times).
You certainly did:
'Matthew 26:28...for this is My Blood of the Renewed Covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of Sins.
So, who is the mediator of the Covenant?
Lets see if we can come to a conclusion.....in some New Testament Scripture they put new in that verse....the greek word is kainos...it denotes New, but that which is unaccustomed or unused....it is not "new" in time or recent. But new as to form or quality, of a different nature....the older Covenant Torah was written on stone now it is written on the heart of flesh on a Renewed man...or if you will, a born- again man.....Man being mankind."
"The Renewed Covenant is the same one that Yah gave them at the 3rd Rosh Chodash/renewed moon in Shemot 19 and 20.'
You literally put "renewed" in the place of kainos in Matt 26:28 and argue that "in some New Testament Scripture they put new in that verse....the greek word is kainos." The only conclusion is that you are saying kainos means "renewed"; otherwise everything you say in the quote above makes no sense.
It should be stated that in the numerous versions I checked, none said "renewed."
According to Thayer's Greek Definitions:
1) new
1a) as respects form
1a1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
According to Strong's:
Of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age): - new.
According to the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance:
kainos; a prim. word; new, fresh: — fresh (3), new (37), new things (1), things new (1).
According to the Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary:
41x: new, recently made, Mat 9:17; Mar 2:22; new in species, character, or mode, Mat 26:28-29; Mar 14:24-25; Luk 22:20; Joh 13:34; 2Co 5:17; Gal 6:15; Eph_2:15; Eph_4:24; 1Jn 2:7; Rev 3:12; novel, strange, Mar 1:27; Act 17:19; new to the possessor, Mar 16:17; unheard of, unusual, Mar 1:27; Act 17:19; met. renovated, better, of higher excellence, 2Co 5:17; Rev 5:9.
I should also point out that you started this thread, which has the title, "No where [sic] in the Renewed Covenant." Yet, nowhere in the NT is it mentioned that there is a "renewed" covenant. It's a "new" covenant.
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And kainos does Not mean new, as in just made either.... as I have explained, the Hebrew word spelled hey, dalet, shin is renewed it is the same word translated into English as new moon.
Is the moon made new or is it renewed and start the same cycle over ? And Yirmeyahu uses the same word chadash which is Renewed....All of the translations used the masoretic nikkudoth which is talmud.....
It can, as I have shown. Several dictionaries and concordances give the meaning “new”—as in new, fresh, or recently made—and all translations say “new.”
How is Hebrew relevant to a Greek word?
tim-from-pa
Member
I think what our friend is trying to show is that the Greek translation came from an OT quote namely Jeremiah 31:31-34. So it's justifiable to use that Hebrew word חָדָשׁ and the Greek meaning of the word should not supersede or replace the Hebrew meaning. The Hebrew word is not really hey-dalet-shin but actually chet-dalet-shin. Chet is pronounced like a "hacking h". Anyway, the word is translated "new", but also can be translated "renew" in English. This is an excellent example where the OT is truly the "foundation" and nothing "new" (if I may sound like I'm stating a pun here) must be added in the NT.
Oh my word ! The Vine's Expository disagrees as to what new means....it certainly isn't brand new, and quess what, I will take Mr. Vine at his word. But you can disagree all you want....you will never change my mind just as I will not change a single thought in one christians head, only the Ruach can do that !
As the original post was about, none of you scholars have shown where the Elohyim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob changed His Shabbat or His Set Apart Feast Days in the Renewed Covenant Scriptures.
I agree; the meaning of a word in one language cannot supersede the meaning of another word in another language. That would make a right mess of things.
Interestingly, I looked up the Hebrew for "new" in that passage and it is never translated in the OT as "renew" or "renewed." According to Strong's, Brown-Driver-Briggs, and the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance, chadash, as given in Jer 31:31, means "new," "new thing," or "fresh." That is actually what kainos means. Neither are, nor it seems can be, translated as "renew."
Two Hebrew words for "new" (חָדָשׁ) and "renew" (חָדַשׁ) are transliterated as the same word (chadash), in English, but it's easy to see that in Hebrew there is a slight difference.
It is a "fresh" covenant, and in that sense, it is new. It is not a renewed covenant; there is nothing to support such a translation.
But even Vine's doesn't actually support "renew;" that isn't given anywhere.
'"The new things that the Gospel brings for present obedience and realization are: a new covenant, Matthew 26:28 in some texts; a new commandment, John 13:34; a new creative act, Galatians 6:15; a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17; a new man, i.e., a new character of manhood, spiritual and moral, after the pattern of Christ, Ephesians 4:24; a new man, i.e., 'the Church which is His (Christ's) body,' Ephesians 2:15.'
https://studybible.info/vines/New
So, if you took Mr. Vine at his word, you wouldn't translate kainos as "renewed." I cannot find a single source to support that meaning.
Of course I won't. If I had a dollar for every time someone on these forums changed their mind when confronted with facts, I would probably have two dollars, and one would be mine.
tim-from-pa
Member
I see what you mean. Those are the "vowel" markings. It's meant for dummies like me who read Hebrew poorly or don't know the language well enough so that I pronounce it better. In Judaism, both new and renew are the same letters Chet-Dalet and shin. All they have in their text is (since Hebrew has no vowels) is חדש and they go by the context I presume.