Bible Study Obidiah vs. America

[Deborah13]

th1b.taylor
My hand is waving excitedly in the air, "Pick me, pick me!"
It finally dawned on me just now about Petra, Jordan...dah...The Edomite city in the rocks.
To get to the city, one has to travel through a deep, narrow passage in the canyon walls.
Petra is located about 50 miles south of the Dead Sea, and 170 miles southwest of Ammon, Jordan. per gotquestions.com
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/petra
Lots of interesting info. on the museum site link above.

"In the fifth century B.C., a people called the Nabateans defeated the Edomites and removed them from Petra. The Edomites were forced to move to southern Palestine in an area that would become known as Idumea. In the New Testament, Herod the Great, who commanded the murder of all boys two years old and younger in Bethlehem (Matthew 2), was an Idumean."
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Edom-Obadiah.html#ixzz3clgAvM68

Sorry, don't mean to take this thread away from the prophecy study. But I imagine there may be others who learn as I do. The more info. and visuals I have, the more I can remember. Besides that archeology is just cool, especially when it proves Bible history.

 

[th1b.taylor]

th1b.taylor
My hand is waving excitedly in the air, "Pick me, pick me!"
It finally dawned on me just now about Petra, Jordan...dah...The Edomite city in the rocks.
To get to the city, one has to travel through a deep, narrow passage in the canyon walls.
Petra is located about 50 miles south of the Dead Sea, and 170 miles southwest of Ammon, Jordan. per gotquestions.com
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/petra
Lots of interesting info. on the museum site link above.

"In the fifth century B.C., a people called the Nabateans defeated the Edomites and removed them from Petra. The Edomites were forced to move to southern Palestine in an area that would become known as Idumea. In the New Testament, Herod the Great, who commanded the murder of all boys two years old and younger in Bethlehem (Matthew 2), was an Idumean."
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Edom-Obadiah.html#ixzz3clgAvM68

Sorry, don't mean to take this thread away from the prophecy study. But I imagine there may be others who learn as I do. The more info. and visuals I have, the more I can remember. Besides that archeology is just cool, especially when it proves Bible history.

You, certainly, did no harm to the thread and I also enjoy the historical proofs of scripture. I used to possess the Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics where Giesler, the Norman type, provide a monster read on this type of information.

And to Malachi's point I paste from Deb's link;
In Obadiah, Edom is mentioned twice by name (1:1, 8). Yet the focus of the entire book is on Edom’s destruction as God meted out His judgment on a historically rebellious people.

Obadiah prophesies that Edom would be “small among the nations . . . utterly despised” (Obadiah 1:2); that Edom’s best-laid plans would come to naught (verse 8); and that Edom would be completely destroyed: “‘The house of Esau will be stubble, and [the house of Jacob] will set it on fire and consume it. There will be no survivors from the house of Esau.’ The LORD has spoken” (verse 18).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Edom-Obadiah.html#ixzz3cm3dvn38

I had my time line a bit off but as mentioned by the commentator at Got Questions and per the book I used, at the leading of the Spirit, This prophecy, like many, perhaps even most, it is not limited in it's usefulness. Any time we see a prophecy, fulfilled or not, God has set a principal for all His people to follow.

As we go through this study having passed the book along, I will attempt to illustrate, from observed events, why this prophecy applies to the the US.

 

[jasonc]

ok, does anyone actually know people with that lineage from esau?
I do know two brothers who are Hebrews with the last name of esau.
I need to do a thread on something I see with us supporting isreal. something I never saw before but about the son of god pointed it out.

 

[th1b.taylor]

ok, does anyone actually know people with that lineage from esau?
I do know two brothers who are Hebrews with the last name of esau.
I need to do a thread on something I see with us supporting isreal. something I never saw before but about the son of god pointed it out.

I don' t but you have left to ask, how would that affect the prophetic aspects of this book of prophecy? And can your view be back with scripture?

 

[jasonc]

I don' t but you have left to ask, how would that affect the prophetic aspects of this book of prophecy? And can your view be back with scripture?

we are influencing them to sin. whatever we want to push we can as we have the power to influence. money gives us that. remember that isreal made abortion legal after us and is following suit with gay rights.

that isn't in prophecy, any nation today that is western is doing that to others. world wide web. its a problem yes but well the whole world is well under the enemies influence if we let it be.i don't see modern isreal in prophecy. if you can show me where the bible says and the Ashkenazi jews that didn't leave but were culturally those types of jews wanted to return to the state of isreal in a secular fashion. im all ears.

 

[th1b.taylor]

we are influencing them to sin. whatever we want to push we can as we have the power to influence. money gives us that. remember that isreal made abortion legal after us and is following suit with gay rights.

that isn't in prophecy, any nation today that is western is doing that to others. world wide web. its a problem yes but well the whole world is well under the enemies influence if we let it be.i don't see modern isreal in prophecy. if you can show me where the bible says and the Ashkenazi jews that didn't leave but were culturally those types of jews wanted to return to the state of isreal in a secular fashion. im all ears.

Brother, this is a Bible study of the book of Obidiah, having nothing to do with the prophecies found in the sayings of Jesus. all of which you have spoken is found there but I am not going into such a study as that right now. I, on the one hand am not trying to be rude, I just do not want this thread to become a drunken brawl and end up being closed.

Deborah and I discussed doing this discussion, based on what the Bible says in this book and does it apply to the United States. If I could find Church's Book on Obidiah I would have purchased a new copy and would have asked Deb and anyone else that cared to comment to do the same, that or I would have asked the staff to make it a private study. I, personally despise private studies because god has not called me to a select group but that is where that stands.

You are, infinitely, more knowledgeable and concerned with our blood lines than I am likely to ever be because Jesus terminated all their usefulness to the followers of Yahweh. Your first post, the one I asked for scriptural references for, are pertinent to this discussion and if you had taken the time to dig the scriptures out your comments would be a good teaching moment.

Nobody is upset on the other side of your computer screen but this set of forums has a set of rules the rest of us are trying to obey. That is all that is asked of you. there is no reason for angry retorts.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Brother, this subject is in the bible Study forum and there are rules that apply. If you wish to make this point stand from what scripture has to reveal, please do so but just as it says at the front door to these strings, this is not a debate forum. Your post, as it stands is, just not in line with what is being discussed.

And you and Deb haven't had some form of or flat debated on this thread already?

Tell me I'm wrong about that, I promise, I won't debate it.

 

[th1b.taylor]

And you and Deb haven't had some form of or flat debated on this thread already?

Tell me I'm wrong about that, I promise, I won't debate it.

Seeing as how you have already stepped beyond the level of decency, insulted and slandered me without cause and have refused to deal with the issue in the PMs, this is my last reply until you publicly and not in this forum, admit your crase attitude and error.

No, Deb and I have been discussing scripture, the scripture found in the book of Obadiah. Should either of us go there, this string will be ended by the mods and both of us know that.

Praying God blesses you, good-bye.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Whatever you want to do, is fine with me, Bill. But I wouldn't confuse the issue here with personal stuff, nobody wants to hear that mess and it's OT as well.

Will do my best to stay within the guidelines set forth for this thread, no matter what has already taken place..

QUOTE="th1b.taylor, post: 1091659, member: 1111"]Oba 1:4 Though thou mount on high as the eagle, and though thy nest be set among the stars, I will bring thee down from thence, saith Jehovah.[/QUOTE]

Deborah and I discussed doing this discussion, based on what the Bible says in this book and does it apply to the United States.

Based on what you want this thread to be and on the Bible and Book you refer too, the Eagle is merely used as an example here and the stars to represent something. The statements have nothing more to do with the US than a few coincidental words.

 

[Malachi]

this is not a debate forum. Your post, as it stands is, just not in line with what is being discussed.

That's a rather strange and hostile remark in view of what was asked:

But this subject is not about a successful Christian Life but rather this a question of can this recounting account of the fall of Edom be prophecy for the end of the United States?

I provided a very appropriate response, but it looks like that did not suit you. To each his own. Edom is not and never will be the USA.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oba 1:5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night (how art thou cut off!), would they not steal only till they had enough? if grape-gatherers came to thee, would they not leave some gleaning grapes?

Oba 1:6 How are the things of Esau searched! how are his hidden treasures sought out!

Until I had read Church's book I had a great deal of trouble getting a handle on this and much of the remainder of this prophecy. I had already learned to understand that the prophesies found in the scriptures are not, of any requirement, for just one occasion but that they establish principals (rules for successful living) that we, the determined followers of God should seek to incorporate into our lives.

When WW II was over, in the minds of US citizens as a whole, we did the right thing by, both Germany and Japan and i would be very hard put to try to disagree with that. In fact, history has recorded that when nations destroy other nations they leave them in their misery and seem to rejoice at their sufferings.

The US did nothing of the sort, not the second time. In world war I everybody dumped on Germany and imposed debts that were never to be repayable except the German man and his wife grovel in the slop with the Swine and never be able to provide a respectable life for their children. Between the US, France and England we empowered the beginning of World War II.

After World War II we took a completely different approach and sought to rebuild both of the enemies nations. However, In the mid-sixties, when I was in Germany for two years of service there there were a lot of Germans that hated our guts for raping their nation after the war. I know, we did nothing of the sort but that does not mean that many Germans saw it exactly that way and one of the fights I had with a man wearing a swastika he was working hard to kill me for raping his nation... that was and, in large part, is how they feel about us.

I drove a Bobtail for Nippon Express for eleven years, in the nineties and beginning of this century. Nippon is Japan in the Nipponese language and all of the upper staff in Nippon Express, USA is Japanese and are here on Working Visas. They hate Amricans! It is their opinion that we are hateful, evil, Barbarians, every one of us. If we were anything but Barbarians we would not have dropped the first Bomb, let alone the second one and most of the people that told me that know that the Jap Army was working, desperately, to create the Atom Bomb to drop it on us.

But it is their opinion that we raped both of their nations of it's riches and that we did not leave any grapes for the Gleaners.

{Please,, this discussion is not about what we did in either of the World Wars so let's just let my observations be what they are and before the study is finished, my reasoning will be apparent. I will not explain it yet because, just like a good Lawyer, I must build my case step by step and we do not need to argue and to cause, rudely, this string to be closed.}

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oba 1:7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee on thy way, even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread lay a snare under thee: there is no understanding in him.

During World War Two we built alliances with the Devil that saw us defeat the Japanese and the German Nazis that then brought us into the Cold War with the USSR that broke Russia's economy and nearly broke ours. And at some point we grew alliances with much of the Arab Muslim Nations. (somebody found a video link to what I am about to say, just, recently) An Islamic Arab Driver told me one day in '03 or '04 that in 2008 the King of Saudi Arabia had promised the Arabian Peoples to have an Islamic Believer seated in the Oval Office in 2008 and as much as the Great Pretender says he is Christian, the teacher he was seated under in Chi Town (Jeremiah Wright) is not and never was a Christian. No Christ follower has ever been filled with Racial Hatred, the Islamic believers are but not Christians.

In summary, our allies have a, rather nasty habit of turning on us, just as did Rome's and did Edom's.

Oba 1:8 Shall I not in that day, saith Jehovah, destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

We don't know enough, at least i don't, to draw major conclusions about what God used to bring Edom down but much is common knowledge of Rome, it's politics and the seeds of it's downfall. And like Rome our politicians war with one another like a bunch of angry Kindergärtners over a Pop Cycle Stick. Two generations after my GED and we have fallen on the World Stage of Education from first and second down to almost thirtieth. All our wise men are ignore and regarded as archaic and our youth are as stupid as clay bricks and still sliding.

Just as did Rome, the second Edom, the third Edom, the USA, is busy shoving all manor of personal perversion down the throats of it's people. Right now it is both forms of Homosexuality and pushing the normalization of transgenders. And now we have the MBLs (Man Boy Love creeps) have begun to push for their creepy, sin sick, filthy corruption to be legalized.

 

[Deborah13]

If Edom were the US, then America will be destroyed by Israel.

Eze 25:12 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them;
Eze 25:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.
Eze 25:14 And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[th1b.taylor]

If Edom were the US, then America will be destroyed by Israel.

Eze 25:12 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them;
Eze 25:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.
Eze 25:14 And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord GOD.

Church did not think so and neither do I. Neither he nor I attempt to include all the prophecy about Edom found in the scriptures. It is good, very good, that you have gone there because it shows that you are doing exactly what I pray for people to do. It also shows that you're not liable to fall under the spell of some charismatic freak... like me.

Of course, if your Ezekiel quote is true there is no case left standing for what Church and now Bill Taylor believes about the second and the third Edoms. Great insight but there is more to come.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Oba 1:9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one may be cut off from the mount of Esau by slaughter.

Some are not going to like this but truth is just that, truth. America's mighty men have gone the same way as those of Edom and they are no more. When I went into the US Army, my DI would take off his shirt with his rank on it and put any cute trooper in his proper place, out behind the barracks. If Sgt. Brown told me or any of his men to jump, we asked him, "How high and how long?" Today, I am informed by my youngest son that the Army has a Time Out Card, carried by every soldier in training. And I tell you the truth, if I had ever been stupid enough to think I could call time out on the field of combat, I would not be typing this message for you to read.

We have a Professional bunch of Cry Babies today. There are exceptions, such as the Killer Spades today, they hold the same spirit today as the original Spades of whom I am a member. I spoke with a Marine one day, not long ago about knowing any of the Killer Spades and he said that if he was in trouble, they were just as brave as any Marine but he would never sit down and have a beer with them. When I asked why he told me they are nuts and will fight at the drop of a hat.

As I understand it, today, if the average soldier does that he will be separated with a less than Honorable discharge. We are not building Fighting Men any more and there is zero respect, as a rule, for men like myself and the Federal Class Medals, Air Medal thru the Medal of Honor, no longer hold the respect they deserve, Our mighty men have passed and Obama wants it to remain that way.

Oba 1:10 For the violence done to thy brother Jacob, shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

Once upon a time, May 14, 1948, Israel (Jacob) was extremely important to and protected by the US, today, the Obama Team has hired a negotiator, John Kerry, that many veterans consider as much of a traitor as we do Hanoi Jane Fonda. So it is that the US is not just, since Bush, the younger, abandoning Jacob but we are bartering a deal that will drop Atomic Bombs on them. The US, like Edom will be, if not already, cut off.

 

[Deborah13]

abandoning Jacob but we are bartering a deal that will drop Atomic Bombs on them.

Don't you think that, that can only happen if God allows it? If He does why would He? Why would God allow Israel to be destroyed? Is there something in this prophecy, that can be compared to the US. I see God was angry with Edom because of the familial relationship they had to Israel. They basically turned on their own people.
If this was a prophecy about the destruction of old Babylon, that I could see as more like US; if the US were involved in harming Israel.

 

[ezrider]

Once upon a time, May 14, 1948, Israel (Jacob) was extremely important to and protected by the US, today, the Obama Team has hired a negotiator, John Kerry, that many veterans consider as much of a traitor as we do Hanoi Jane Fonda. So it is that the US is not just, since Bush, the younger, abandoning Jacob but we are bartering a deal that will drop Atomic Bombs on them. The US, like Edom will be, if not already, cut off.

I know that many people like to look at the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 as some sign of the old prophecy's about Israel returning to their homeland, but they are not. Those prophecy's were fulfilled in Christ, and thought Christ. What was released from prison and set forth at that time has one purpose before it: to deceive the nations and gather them together.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Don't you think that, that can only happen if God allows it? If He does why would He? Why would God allow Israel to be destroyed? Is there something in this prophecy, that can be compared to the US. I see God was angry with Edom because of the familial relationship they had to Israel. They basically turned on their own people.
If this was a prophecy about the destruction of old Babylon, that I could see as more like US; if the US were involved in harming Israel.

I'm sorry, you've read into and I am not going there at all. I am a very firm believer in what I have preached on the matter of the End Days Israel. Edom turned on Israel and God did not break His promise to keep Israel forever nor shall he as he US turns it coat inside out. There is another book, this one fiction based on truth by Joel Rosenberg, the Ezekiel Option based on Eze. 38 and 39 that is a good read on the coming war against Israel by Iran, Russia and I believe Egypt. The US will not defend it's only real ally in the Middle East but God will.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I know that many people like to look at the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 as some sign of the old prophecy's about Israel returning to their homeland, but they are not. Those prophecy's were fulfilled in Christ, and thought Christ. What was released from prison and set forth at that time has one purpose before it: to deceive the nations and gather them together.

You honestly need to return to your first love and learn to stop dreaming and just study to believe.

 

[ezrider]

You honestly need to return to your first love and learn to stop dreaming and just study to believe.

Just what is it you think I should study so I might believe. Should I study the book of Obadiah hard enough so that I can make some prophecy from a few thousand years ago fit your idea of its fulfillment in the destruction of the United States. I wonder who it is that should stop dreaming? But you see Bill, I have studied, and I do believe, and yet I did not give you a prophecy fulfilled a few thousand years a go, I gave to you a prophecy that is/was to be fulfilled at the end of the thousand years. Those thousand years are up and the deception grows.

I am not dreaming Bill, I am just watching a different kingdom than you are. You are watching the kingdoms of this world and you try and interpret the Bible based upon what you see. I am not watching the kingdoms of this world, my eyes are fixed upon the kingdom of Heaven, and it is of His kingdom that I speak; I speak not of that which I have seen for myself, but of that which He has shown me. I have studied, now I just believe. For it is evident that the just shall live by Faith.

.