Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

[Fastfredy0]

Re: Pelagianism

Heck, I didn't even know there was such a word!!!

Hmmm, a majority of Christians are semi-pelagian including yourself given my interpretation of your posts.
Definition: a person (as a theologian of a 5th or 6th century monastery in Gaul) holding that man requires special help and not merely general guidance from God to overcome original sin, that such help is offered freely to all men, that each man must of his own initiative accept or reject this special divine help, that the individual and not God takes the first step leading to his salvation, and that God's grace toward him is conditioned by his own attitude of acceptance or rejection

Whereas, I, Iconoclast and atpollard are not semi-pelagian.

What is semi-Pelagianism? | GotQuestions.org

What is semi-Pelagianism? What is the semi-Pelagian view of original sin? Is semi-Pelagianism heresy / false doctrine?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[miamited]

Antinonianism
Arianism
Arminianism

There's more.
Have fun!

Oh, not me. I just go with born again believer in the Lord Jesus, and I'm good. If that's someone's testimony, then I'm going to trust that the Holy Spirit will do his job in all born again believers.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I lean reformed. I think scripture indicates that he’ll is mankind’s default and Christians are the peculiar people set aside for a purpose. I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy etc.

“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.” He will show mercy to the merciful. Whosoever is merciful will be shown mercy.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Re: Pelagianism

Hmmm, a majority of Christians are semi-pelagian including yourself given my interpretation of your posts.
Definition: a person (as a theologian of a 5th or 6th century monastery in Gaul) holding that man requires special help and not merely general guidance from God to overcome original sin, that such help is offered freely to all men, that each man must of his own initiative accept or reject this special divine help, that the individual and not God takes the first step leading to his salvation, and that God's grace toward him is conditioned by his own attitude of acceptance or rejection

Whereas, I, Iconoclast and atpollard are not semi-pelagian.

What is semi-Pelagianism? | GotQuestions.org

What is semi-Pelagianism? What is the semi-Pelagian view of original sin? Is semi-Pelagianism heresy / false doctrine?

www.gotquestions.org

You didn’t include WHO is behind their decision so that is NOT a definition. Please define the word Pelagianism.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

wondering,

I read the Wikipedia article on Pelagianism and this sentence is there.

“To a large degree, "Pelagianism" was defined by its opponent Augustine, and exact definitions remain elusive.”

So we have a repeat. The Augustinians accuse those not in their group of being Pelagians again..

The history is interesting too because Pelagius saw that christians were practicing sin believing the sin nature doctrine and Augustine/Later Calvin and was trying to tell them that they, not God, we’re responsible for their choices and they could choose not to do wrong. He took it a step farther in bringing in a goal of perfection being possible which is actually immaterial to the main point. So he was responding to increased sin in believers. The more you teach God is behind your choices manipulating your emotions, the easier it is to become hedonistic, that is, your desires rule your decisions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The short catheschizm of the wcf is where I got that

The matter left out of those definitions is something very dear to the heart of God, other people. It’s so dear that if we refuse to forgive other people, God won’t forgive us. There is more to this life than just the self and God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I lean reformed. I think scripture indicates that he’ll is mankind’s default

Agreed.

and Christians are the peculiar people set aside for a purpose

Mostly it refers to Israel.
Some persons were also chosen for particular reasons.

. I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy etc.

Yes. Absolutely.
But God lets us know To Whom...
And Why and How, IOW what we must do to receive His mercy.

How do You understand John 3:16?

 

[Fastfredy0]

You didn’t include WHO is behind their decision so that is NOT a definition. Please define the word Pelagianism.

Took definition from Google. I didn't wish to distort the definition with my input.
Pelagianism is REAL FREE WILLYISM, where as you and wondering practice semi-pelagianism (semi-free willyism) which you use when convenient to answer your theological dilemmas.

 

[atpollard]

Oh, not me. I just go with born again believer in the Lord Jesus, and I'm good. If that's someone's testimony, then I'm going to trust that the Holy Spirit will do his job in all born again believers.

God bless,
Ted

They are not ALL mutually exclusive with salvation.

[Some MAY be - that is for GOD and not me to decide - for example some "terms" refer to people that believe that they do not need Jesus to save them, they can be sinless completely on their own (like Pelagius taught)]

Antinonianism means "against the Law" and takes the question in Romans 6:1-2, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?" and answers "YES!" (which is unbiblical and will get you in trouble!)

Arianism believes that Jesus is NOT GOD, but just a created being ... so this one MIGHT mess with Salvation (see Romans 10:9-10).

Arminianism, on the other hand, simply believes that God asks before saving people making it "synergystic" (a cooperation between God and man).

Calvinism, in contrast to Arminianism, simply believes that God saves without asking our permission making it "monergistinc" (totally the work of God and not a cooperation).

Both Calvinists and Arminians can be either SAVED or UNSAVED because SALVATION has everything to do with knowing Jesus and nothing to do with our "best guess" about how God saves people. The terms just allow faster discussion about ideas that people have debated before we were born (or our great-grandparents were born).

 

[miamited]

Hi atpollard

They are not ALL mutually exclusive with salvation.

That's why that's the only test I use. I suppose, as a logic circle, it would be a circle in the middle that is 'born again'. Then around the circumference of that circle would be a few smaller circles whose circumference protrudes somewhat into the 'born again' circle. Each smaller circle would represent the various man-made denominations in which supposed faithful worship to the one true and living God is practiced.

Now, in reality, the smaller circles around the circumference of the 'born again' circle would protrude into the 'born again' circle differing depths. Depending on the percentage of all congregants that follow that methodology of faith vs. those among them that are 'born again'.

As an example: I believe that it is easier for a follower of the christian faith practice we label as Baptist to find the truth and thus, find God. Whereas, say the Universalist follower would, I believe, have a harder time finding the truth, and thus, God.

So, in my scenario above, the Baptist circle around the circumference of the 'born again' would go halfway in and the Universalist circle would just barely protrude into the 'born again' circle.

Now, as regards this topic, I see a much similar representation of circles to explain the concept. There are a lot of different named beliefs that are listed and each one has a certain number of followers and, as is pointed out yourself, there are degrees and overlapping of ideas and a lot of cross contamination, if you will, of the various 'named' belief circles. Some of them may not get to touch the center one at all and some of them may protrude halfway and some protrude only a small bit.

But out of all of them, the one's that are in the 'born again' circle, will be saved. Those, I am sure will come to the knowledge of God's truth, and trust in His Son's sacrifice for their sin, and turn towards facing God, with the Holy Spirit of God directing their lives.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Took definition from Google. I didn't wish to distort the definition with my input.
Pelagianism is REAL FREE WILLYISM, where as you and wondering practice semi-pelagianism (semi-free willyism) which you use when convenient to answer your theological dilemmas.

You do not accept dictionary definitions of free will and so you cannot use them yourself if you are honest. You require we insert what no dictionary does which is WHO. So that is not a definition since it doesn’t include the criteria you require which is WHO is behind it. Please live the standard you require of others!!!!

 

[Fastfredy0]

You do not accept dictionary definitions of free will and so you cannot use them yourself if you are honest.

Dumb conclusion based on irrelevant premises.

You require we insert what no dictionary does which is WHO.

???

So that is not a definition since it doesn’t include the criteria you require which is WHO is behind it. Please live the standard you require of others!!!!

You conflate a lot of things. For a scientist, your logic is difficult to follow IMO.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dumb conclusion based on irrelevant premises.

Nope. Just applying your standard of what a definition to your words. I know you don’t like it and have NO answer.

???

You conflate a lot of things. For a scientist, your logic is difficult to follow IMO.

It’s on a higher plane as I think about matters and don’t simply borrow the thinking of others which renders a man unable to think, just recite.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi atpollard

That's why that's the only test I use. I suppose, as a logic circle, it would be a circle in the middle that is 'born again'. Then around the circumference of that circle would be a few smaller circles whose circumference protrudes somewhat into the 'born again' circle. Each smaller circle would represent the various man-made denominations in which supposed faithful worship to the one true and living God is practiced.

Now, in reality, the smaller circles around the circumference of the 'born again' circle would protrude into the 'born again' circle differing depths. Depending on the percentage of all congregants that follow that methodology of faith vs. those among them that are 'born again'.

As an example: I believe that it is easier for a follower of the christian faith practice we label as Baptist to find the truth and thus, find God. Whereas, say the Universalist follower would, I believe, have a harder time finding the truth, and thus, God.

So, in my scenario above, the Baptist circle around the circumference of the 'born again' would go halfway in and the Universalist circle would just barely protrude into the 'born again' circle.

Now, as regards this topic, I see a much similar representation of circles to explain the concept. There are a lot of different named beliefs that are listed and each one has a certain number of followers and, as is pointed out yourself, there are degrees and overlapping of ideas and a lot of cross contamination, if you will, of the various 'named' belief circles. Some of them may not get to touch the center one at all and some of them may protrude halfway and some protrude only a small bit.

But out of all of them, the one's that are in the 'born again' circle, will be saved. Those, I am sure will come to the knowledge of God's truth, and trust in His Son's sacrifice for their sin, and turn towards facing God, with the Holy Spirit of God directing their lives.

God bless,
Ted

In the end, God will be the judge of who came to a knowledge of His truth and who stuck to more comfortable thinking they got from human “authorities.”

 

[Christ_empowered]

The invisible church ️ contains people from many denominations….

 

[Fastfredy0]

It’s on a higher plane as I think about matters and don’t simply borrow the thinking of others which renders a man unable to think, just recite.

Ah, I wish I was on your elevated plane. I wish I could think about matters. Psalm 139:6
*giggles*

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The invisible church ️ contains people from many denominations….

True. Sooner or later all will have to surrender the untruths they cherished, some more and some less.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ah, I wish I was on your elevated plane. I wish I could think about matters. Psalm 139:6
*giggles*

Jude 1:9-10

 

[Christ_empowered]

Not Pentecostal but I really respect David Wilkerson. He writes that as the end times approach God will have a last days remnant spread over all established denominations. Downside…established churches will turn satanic persecution within the church. Makes for interesting reading…

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not Pentecostal but I really respect David Wilkerson. He writes that as the end times approach God will have a last days remnant spread over all established denominations. Downside…established churches will turn satanic persecution within the church. Makes for interesting reading…

Pieces of his vision came true, but not all.