Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

[Fastfredy0]

Interesting.... I went to a a forum thread that asked the question:

I’m transgender- will I go to hell even if I have faith?"​

I basically responded "no" with 6 verses in support. My answers were deleted because it was an "inappropriate answer". (despite being true)
Deut: 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
Hmmm

I guess the non-reformed patrons of this site think God loves everyone.
Premise 1: God finds men who put on women's clothes repulsive
Premise 2: God loves everyone
Conclusion: God loves people even if they repulse Him

Non-reformed theology is contradictory at times.

 

[jasonc]

Interesting.... I went to a a forum thread that asked the question:

I’m transgender- will I go to hell even if I have faith?"​

I basically responded "no" with 6 verses in support. My answers were deleted because it was an "inappropriate answer". (despite being true)
Deut: 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
Hmmm

I guess the non-reformed patrons of this site think God loves everyone.
Premise 1: God finds men who put on women's clothes repulsive
Premise 2: God loves everyone
Conclusion: God loves people even if they repulse Him

Non-reformed theology is contradictory at times.

I'm not reformed per SE

Unless saved you are children of wrath

The problem is that older arminist churches wouldn't say that .my old church years ago might say that but it was you are in danger of hell .it seems that is said less and less .

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm no longer replying to your posts.

You stopped several days ago.

They're getting very personal and not sticking to the topic.

we are talking to each other about each other.

I just want to make two comments:

1. Your last paragraph. I never said all gentiles are going to get saved.
Please find out what OBEDIENCE OF FAITH means since you take my word for nothing.

your comments are insulting. You think i do not know about this.

2. Your remark about the fashion police was rather insulting.

not really

3. You telling me that IT HAS BEEN EXPLAINED TO ME BY ALL OF YOU is also rather insulting.

It is a fact, not an insult, we have said it all along

Did you think I'd change my mind about what the NT teaches?

when someone sees truth they change their mind.

4. Telling me I repeat error because I can do nothing else is also offensive.

nevertheless it is true.

That's about all I have to say.

I knew that several days ago.

a conclusion without foundation.

Just did a random scan.

Iconoclast made responses to 9 comments and used scripture 4 times
atpollard made responses to 5 comments and used scripture 4 times (though 3 didn't give exact verse
wondering made responses to 18 comments and used scripture 2 times
Dorothy Mae made responses to 11 comments and used scripture 1 time
Statistically, anecdotal but the pattern seems to be that Reformed people use scripture to define doctrine and non-reformed people rarely do.
That's reform citing verses 62% of time
That's non-reform citing verses 10% of time

More support to show Reformed is God-centered and non-reformed is man-centered

I would use more, but some here do not welcome it.

 

[atpollard]

Interesting.... I went to a a forum thread that asked the question:

Tread lightly.
Publicly challenging moderation decisions is one of those “third rails” on most forums.
I don’t want you to cross any lines.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I've been posting a lot to others.
I always have said that God can choose special persons to do special tasks.
He's God, He can do as He wishes.
Everyone always forgets about poor Mary, but she's on the list of Chosen Persons too.

This does not mean EVERYONE is chosen.
That's why we remember the names of the ones who were.

They were always, without a single exception, chosen to DO something. They were never chosen for their salvation.

 

[atpollard]

They were always, without a single exception, chosen to DO something. They were never chosen for their salvation.

What was Lydia chosen to do that every believer isn’t?
(without a single exception )

 

[Dorothy Mae]

a conclusion without foundation.

Incorrect

Just did a random scan.

Iconoclast made responses to 9 comments and used scripture 4 times
atpollard made responses to 5 comments and used scripture 4 times (though 3 didn't give exact verse
wondering made responses to 18 comments and used scripture 2 times

Calvin, the trained lawyer, taught his followers apparently, to use scripture like a lawyer. That is, take them out of context and twist them to mean something the author did not say, count how many times you can do this and if it’s more, you win.

Dorothy Mae made responses to 11 comments and used scripture 1 time

(Unless it’s in bold with blinking lights, you don’t recognize scripture.)

Statistically, anecdotal but the pattern seems to be that Reformed people use scripture to define doctrine and non-reformed people rarely do.
That's reform citing verses 62% of time
That's non-reform citing verses 10% of time

God doesn’t judge based on the number of times you cite. He looks at how you live.

More support to show Reformed is God-centered and non-reformed is man-centered

Conclusion not based in evidence, again. Calvinism was never heard of until Calvin except that he borrowed from Augustine who was the first to push that heresy into the church bit by bit. The early church did not believe TULIP in any form.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Interesting.... I went to a a forum thread that asked the question:

I’m transgender- will I go to hell even if I have faith?"​

I basically responded "no" with 6 verses in support.

Ah yes, sin as you please because if you’re “chosen” you’ll go to Heaven anyway.

My answers were deleted because it was an "inappropriate answer". (despite being true)
Deut: 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
Hmmm

I guess the non-reformed patrons of this site think God loves everyone.

John 3:16

Premise 1: God finds men who put on women's clothes repulsive

Stated above

Premise 2: God loves everyone

John 3:16

Conclusion: God loves people even if they repulse Him

So for you, God just lives the “elect?”

Non-reformed theology is contradictory at times.

Not in the least. But it is much more complex which reflects the complexity of the Being described.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Funny!
This is what I think of the reformed faith.
That it's the teaching of a man...and that man is John Calvin.
It's because I can't find those teachings in the bible - instead you can.
So they seem man-made to me.


Well, yes, that was honest of him.
Don't you believe that the Confessions are taken from Calvin's writings, but are softened up to make them more palatable? I told you I have the Institutes and the WCF and that's what it seems like to me.


Yes, this would be interesting to do, but not ad infinitum.
I hate when these discussion get personal, and they always seem to.
And then I have to bow out...

But we could give it a go...
Total Depravity...
If we want to call the sin nature, total depravity, then I agree.
I'm just concerned that you mean that man is depraved in every area of his being, his soul.
And that this depravity is so great that he is unable to reach out for God.
I believe that man is born lost and with the sin nature imbedded in him from the fall of Adam.
IOW, we are AFFECTED by Adam's sin, but not IMPUTED with his sin.
This makes us tend toward sin, but God gives everyone enough grace to know He is there and to seek Him, or at least, respond to Him.

I do have to say good night, but will check in tomorrow.

From your youtube clip I went on to listen to more. Brightened my day considerably so thank you.

Then I heard a very good message which gave me better understanding of man and this reported inborn sin nature idea which isn’t in scripture.

Ezekiel 18:20 says that no one dies from the sin of their father but only for their own sin. So this imputed sin is not there and clearly refuted.

But the situation is this. Adam sinned and sin entered the world (not the man.) Each of us must choose (freely) to sin or not. For the pleasure it offers, we choose sin, each of us. So sin he started, becomes our own sin from what we do. We appropriate sin by sinful choices. Do it enough and it becomes your nature or who you are.

Similarly, Jesus died for us and that forgiveness is freely available but we must choose it. Only Calvinists believe you need not as God did it for you. Otherwise Christians believe we each must repent and ask forgiveness and God will grant that based on Jesus.

I found this quite helpful but it’s more complex than that Augustine introduced “sin nature” doctrine.

This allows for God’s sovereignty and yet man has choice and responsibility.

 

[atpollard]

Ezekiel 18:20 says that no one dies from the sin of their father but only for their own sin. So this imputed sin is not there and clearly refuted.

So when God said Ezekiel 18:20, He not only meant it, He meant it to apply even to other cases (like an infant or the sin that spread to mankind through Adam), but when God said ...

• Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
• Psalm 143:2 “Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you.”
• Ecclesiastes 7:20 “Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.”
• Proverbs 20:9 “Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin?”
• Psalm 51:5 “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

... God meant NONE of it (because we are born sinless and can choose to sin or live sinless by our own power).

"That's PELAGIANISM, Patrick!"

Got Questions ("What is Pelagianism?")​

​

"Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good.​

​

Pelagius and his false doctrine were fought by Augustine and condemned by the Council of Carthage in AD 418, the same year that Pelagius was excommunicated. The doctrine did not disappear, however, and had to be condemned again by the Council of Ephesus (431) and later church councils. Pelagianism survives to this day and shows up in any teaching that says following Christ is primarily a choice we make apart from any supernatural intervention of God’s grace."​

​

​

 

[GodsGrace]

So when God said Ezekiel 18:20, He not only meant it, He meant it to apply even to other cases (like an infant or the sin that spread to mankind through Adam), but when God said ...

• Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
• Psalm 143:2 “Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you.”
• Ecclesiastes 7:20 “Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.”
• Proverbs 20:9 “Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin?”
• Psalm 51:5 “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

... God meant NONE of it (because we are born sinless and can choose to sin or live sinless by our own power).

"That's PELAGIANISM, Patrick!"

Got Questions ("What is Pelagianism?")​

​

"Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good.​

​

Pelagius and his false doctrine were fought by Augustine and condemned by the Council of Carthage in AD 418, the same year that Pelagius was excommunicated. The doctrine did not disappear, however, and had to be condemned again by the Council of Ephesus (431) and later church councils. Pelagianism survives to this day and shows up in any teaching that says following Christ is primarily a choice we make apart from any supernatural intervention of God’s grace."​

​

​

A,
I don't know anybody on this board that is pelagian in belief, as described above.
We all know Adam's sin affected all of humanity.

 

[miamited]

A,
I don't know anybody on this board that is pelagian in belief, as described above.
We all know Adam's sin affected all of humanity.

Heck, I didn't even know there was such a word!!!

 

[Christ_empowered]

I lean reformed. I think scripture indicates that he’ll is mankind’s default and Christians are the peculiar people set aside for a purpose. I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

Heck, I didn't even know there was such a word!!!

Antinonianism
Arianism
Arminianism

There's more.
Have fun!

 

[GodsGrace]

I lean reformed. I think scripture indicates that he’ll is mankind’s default and Christians are the peculiar people set aside for a purpose. I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy etc.

Do you know the purpose?

 

[Christ_empowered]

To glorify God. To know God.

 

[GodsGrace]

To glorify God. To know God.

To serve God.

 

[jasonc]

To glorify God. To know God.

Enjoy ,what is the chief end of man ?

To glorify God and to enjoy God

 

[Christ_empowered]

Now and for eternity…

 

[jasonc]

Now and for eternity…

The short catheschizm of the wcf is where I got that