GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Sinning and Being a Sinner is different.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
Sinning and being a sinner ( non born again) is the opposite to knowing Christ is righteous, and doing righteousness. ( born again)
It will never be allowed, to mix up the clear testimony of Judas and perdition, to the Apostles of the Lord, one is sinner, sinning, one is a Saint, not sinning.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
It will never be allowed, to mix up the clear testimony of Judas and perdition, to the Apostles of the Lord, one is sinner, sinning, one is a Saint, not sinning.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Anyone who does unrighteousness, ( sinning/not loving their brother) does not know Jesus, ( worker of iniquity. Matthew 7:23.) does not believe that Jesus Christ is righteous. ( if we believe Jesus Christ is righteous, we do righteousness.)
This MANIFESTS, who is OF THE DEVI/L, they DO NOT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS, THEY DO NOT LOVE THEIR BROTHER. ( they do unrighteousness, they do sin, and we KNOW, whosoever is born of God does not sin, they KEEP THEMSELVES, SO THE WICKED EVIL DOES NOT TOUCH THEM.)
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
This MANIFESTS, who is OF THE DEVI/L, they DO NOT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS, THEY DO NOT LOVE THEIR BROTHER. ( they do unrighteousness, they do sin, and we KNOW, whosoever is born of God does not sin, they KEEP THEMSELVES, SO THE WICKED EVIL DOES NOT TOUCH THEM.)
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Paul was a sinner AFTER he became born-again. He had an issue with lust.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.
And he wrote of it for our training and admonition and did not hide it.
And Scripture also reveals Peter sinned, too after being born again.
Do you sin?
You are a sinner saved by the grace of God.
From God's Eternal perspective we are holy, righteous, and sinless.
But from our perspective in TIME we are sinners saved by the grace of God. We sinned, yesterday, we will sin today, and we will sin tomorrow.
Until our bodies are changed in the twinkle twinkle of an eye.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom. 7:24–25.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Romans 7:24-25 NIV
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature d a slave to the law of sin.
I have to say that we don't understand Romans 7:25 the same way.
We're a slave to our sinful nature before we're saved and come to know and serve God.
After we become born again in our spirit and serve God, we become a slave to God..
Romans 6:5-7
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, a that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
7because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
Romans 6:16-18
16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.
18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
As to being a sinner....I used to believe as you do.
But we can no longer call ourselves A SINNER.
We can say that we are a person that sins.
This would be a person that will sin at times, although the tendency will now be NOT to sin.
A sinner lives a life of sin and is not bothered by it.
This is shown in
1 John 1:8-10. He says that we all sin and that if we say we do not sin we are lying.
Instead John tells us in 1 John 3:4 that everyone who PRACTICES sin is a lawless person, the type God will not recognize at judgement, Matthew 7:23
Also, we are called Children of God.
1 John 3:1a
1See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!
From God's Eternal perspective we are Holy, Righteous, Sinless because of the cross of Christ.
But from our perspective in TIME we are sinners and live in this body of this death.
And sin is death.
Why would Paul call our bodies a body of this death?
Because the body has NOT YET been redeemed and changed. That occurs at the Coming of Christ still yet future. Until then we are sinners saved by the grace of God.
We are not HOLY saved by the grace of God. Holy people don't need saving.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Cor. 15:50–56.
We might be saved but we are ALL still under the judgment for sin and that judgment is death.
If you had no sin you would not die. For death is the penalty for sin!
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You say strange things Jeremiah.
I post scripture and you come back and tell me about God's perspective.
You think God believes we are Holy, Righteous and Sinless?
Well then, we never have to confess a sin again.
We never have to feel sorry for anything we do again.
We're already totally sanctified.
When, in reality, sanctification is a life-long process.
Paul spoke about the body of death because he was retelling a practice that was popular at the time when someone murdered a person. They were tied to the dead body and left there to die. It was the body of death.
Before salvation we are a body of death.
I posted scripture from Romans.
Perhaps you could reply to scripture instead of giving your own belief system?
What is it based on?
Do you have verses for support?
No one here is speaking about the glorified body.
I don't know why you mention it.
Agreed.
Could you repeat that in plain English?
IOW, it makes little sense....:
You say we are saved...
but still under judgement for sin.
So if I die tonight, I'm going to hell?
You say, If I had no sin I would not die?
How could that be if when Adam, the Federal Headship of all humanity, sinned,
HE passed on the sinful nature of man and thus I will die even IF I never commit ONE SIN.
I am a human after all and have inherited his sin nature.
You say death is the penalty of sin...
Agreed.
What's the point of saying something every Christian is aware of?
QUOTE: HE passed on the sinful nature of man and thus I will die even IF I never commit ONE SIN.
I am a human after all and have inherited his sin nature.
RESPONSE: That's correct. It was a sin-ful nature he was created with. He wasn't holy. He wasn't sinless. He wasn't neutral before God. He wasn't innocent.
His composition didn't change from sinless to sinful after he ate from the forbidden tree. All the tree did was give him THE KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. It was a mind-thing. KNOWLEDGE. Nothing happen to his body when he ate the fruit. He gained the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You're good with words.
What does KNOWLEDGE mean?
Where does it state Adam was born with a sin nature?
And doesn't that make God an evil god?
I have to be good with words.
Especially the Word of God.
There are several words in Hebrew and Greek with different meanings. It depends what word is in a particular sentence.
Sometimes the translators of the Authorized King James Version use several English words to translated one Hebrew or Greek word. Sometimes the translators use one English word to translate several Hebrew and Greek words.
Where does it state in Scripture God is a Trinity? You won't find one verse saying it. But by comparing spiritual with spiritual, line upon line, precept upon precept, doctrine on any given subject in Scripture becomes clear. This is called Systematic Theology. And in Systematic Theology there are various subjects covered.
The Doctrine of the Bible.
The Doctrine of Man.
The Doctrine of God.
The Doctrine of Christ.
The Doctrine of the Holy Spirit.
The Doctrine of the Church.
The Doctrine of Last Things.
And so on.
No, creating Adam sin-ful does not make God evil. That's the only way God can create man. God cannot reduplicate His Attributes or His Holy Nature in matter. In this case, dirt.
There are two words in Genesis translated "created" or "made."
One word "Bara" means to create something out of nothing, such as God creating the universe and all in it.
The other word, "Tohu" means to create something out of something, such as man (from the dirt) and woman (from the man's rib.)
But besides all the Scripture I've posted supporting my position that God created man sin-ful, or "missing the mark" it all comes down to this question:
Does sin come from sinner?
Or
Does sin come from holy.
Many in the church today believe God created Man (Adam) holy, or righteous, or sinless, or neutral, or innocent, but that question needs be answered before any other question is addressed concerning the Biblical Doctrine of Man.
The answer is this: Man (Adam) sinned. Therefore, sin comes from sinner.
Then there's the other question Christians have trouble with.
Do we sin because we are sinners?
Or, are we sinners because we sin?
But I don't want to confuse the gist of my thread.
Using Scripture my conclusion of the matter is Judas Iscariot is elect, called of God, and saved.