You can post the Scripture but do you understand it?
Two words: "woe" and "devil."
These two words help define what the passage is saying. Can you define these two passages to come to the knowledge of the truth?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
Two words: "woe" and "devil."
These two words help define what the passage is saying. Can you define these two passages to come to the knowledge of the truth?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
QUOTE: When Judas and the men of perdition are judged, they are condemned. ( their prayer becomes sin.)
RESPONSE: You describe a quote from the Psalms. But do you know that the prayer of the unrighteous unsaved non-elect is sin? God doesn't hear it for one reason:
There's no anointing that accompanies it.
But the prayers of God's Elect and those predestined to salvation He hears; except He responds in His own time.
Well, do you need help with it and do you want to learn something about the passages you quoted and HOW they apply to Judas?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
We're here to discuss.
I don't know yet if I have anything to learn from you. But I know that none of us knows everything. And so we discuss, and what will be will be.
Woe, the same word Jesus used with the Pharisees when He was a bit upset with them.
A word of warning, I'd say.
Satan, can a person be more evil than satan?
Highway54
Member
Nonetheless sir, that is what Jesus said, he is the one to determine whether he brings back Judas or not. You or I have no say so in the matter. The whole account is interesting as it was prophesied that he would be betrayed by a close associate, and we know Jesus personally selected him to be one of his apostles, did he pick him for that reason, or that he seen great love for God in him? Heck we can only speculate. Judas did display some bad qualities while with Jesus.
I often think of how silly it was for Peter to argue with Jesus when he said he would deny him 3 times I would have said yes sir, let's get it over with.
The word "woe" means "grief," which is what Judas experienced when he 'saw' Jesus was to be condemned. That was not why he revealed the place where Jesus would take Hid disciples to get away from the crowd and rest. It was a place known only to the disciples - Judas included (John 18:2).
The word "devil" is:
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Jn 6:70.
1228. διάβολος Strong’s Greek #1228
from <G1225> (diaballo); a traducer;
What is a 'traducer?' It is a false accuser, or someone who impugns the character of another. In this case Judas falsely accused Jesus to the religious leaders when he went to deliver Jesus to them for money.
The religious leaders knew Judas was a disciple of Jesus. They initially did not know if Jesus sent Judas to trap them in some kind of plan hatched by Jesus so initially they did not believe nor trust Judas. But I believe Judas had to impugn the character of Jesus - which is a crime under the Law of Moses - and to falsely accuse his Master to them before they trusted him. Under the Law two or three persons must give testimony about a person in a court or to authorities, but the religious leaders where not intent on following the Law. They WANTED JESUS.
Paul, crucified his flesh and walked in the Spirit.
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27
That is why Paul revealed his conclusion to the matter of Romans 7, by this statement.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Do you believe Paul walked according to the flesh or according to the Spirit?
JLB
Paul was like every one of us in the Body of Christ. He had to daily, as we all do, walk in the spirit and deny the flesh. This was his and our sanctification as born-again Christians. Just like everyone of us in the Body of Christ he dealt with sin in his own life. One indication of sin he dealt with was lust:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.
From your comment above I get the impression that you see Paul - and maybe the other pillars of the time - as super-Christians or men that didn't go through the things we all go through in our daily life. If you elevate Paul and the others on a pedestal too high then they become inaccessible to us his fellow believers. Bottom line, Paul may have been more ,mature in certain areas of his walk but he was like all of us having to daily make attempts to walk in the spirit and mortify the deeds of his flesh. He was honest enough to use his experiences with sin and his flesh to record these things in his epistle to the believers at Rome.
Does that answer your question, JLB?
You did leave yourself a way out.
Luke 1:15 kjv
15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
The prophecy about John the Baptist is beyond the usual. Why he is a type and shadow of things to come is beyond me.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Proceed, but I am not going to get into a debate or discussion about the actual blood pumping heart as everyone knows scripture is not speaking about that.
What is your point here repeating what said?
In these last times, there are only scoffers/mockers, as told both in Jude and 2 Peter.
They walk after their own ungodly lusts. ( their lust is to be false teachers as told in the previous chapter of Peter. 2 Peter 2:1. There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.)
It is told in 2 Peter 2:1, they bring upon themselves swift destruction.
It is told in 2 Peter 3:7, fire is reserved against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The adversaries of the Lord, which includes Judas, as spoken of in Psalms 109, ( Psalm 109:20.) have an evident token of perdition, and to those persecuted by them, of salvation, and that of God. ( Judas, or anyone like Judas, cant have salvation being the persecutor of God, and those who are His.)
Men are drowned in destruction and perdition, as perdition is destruction.
Drawing back, ( Judas is that example of drawing back unto perdition.) is unto perdition, who do not believe to the saving of the soul.
Philippians 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Psalms 109:8, is told about in Acts 1:20. ( let another take his office/his bishoprick let another take.)
But this is not about Judas at all, it is about the mouth of the wicked and deceitful opening up with lying tongues against the Lord, it is about the hatred they had against the Son and the Father, without a cause. ( John 15:25.)
It is about all the adversaries of the Lord, rewarding the Lord evil, for His good, hatred for His love. ( in reward for Jesus laying His life down, Judas offers betrayal.)
Satan is at their right hand, Psalm 109:6. ( satan entered Judas, and all men of perdition he enters. John 13:27.)
When Judas and the men of perdition are judged, they are condemned. ( their prayer becomes sin.)
Their posterity is cut off, their name is blotted out, the memory of them is cut off from the earth. ( out of the book of life. Revelation 3:5.)
They love cursing, cursing comes upon them. ( they are cursed children. 2 Peter 2:14.) they do not delight in blessing, blessing is far from them.
They cloth themselves with cursing, it comes into their bowels like water. ( Judas burst asunder in the field, and all his bowels gushed out/cursing came into his bowels like water.)
They ( the cursed children. 2 Peter 2:14.) are curded with that garment of cursing, continually.
Psalm 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the Lord, and of them that speak evil against my soul.
Judas purchased the field of blood, with the reward of iniquity,
The habitation of Judas ( and all men of perdition. ) is desolation, no man dwells therein. ( it is eternal cursing and swift destruction for men of perdition. ( 1 Timothy 6:9.)
Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Judas, like all unjust men of perdition, are reserved unto the day of judgement to be punished. They like Judas seen in John 14, are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ( John 14:22.)
They are in the lust of uncleanness, 2 Peter 2:10, like Judas was not clean. ( John 13:11.)
They receive the reward of unrighteousness, they love the wages of unrighteousness/iniquity. ( Judas purchased the field of blood, with the REWARD OF INIQUITY. Acts 1:18.)
It had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness. ( good were it for that man/Judas. if he had never been born. Mark 14:21.)
John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Mark 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
They walk after their own ungodly lusts. ( their lust is to be false teachers as told in the previous chapter of Peter. 2 Peter 2:1. There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.)
It is told in 2 Peter 2:1, they bring upon themselves swift destruction.
It is told in 2 Peter 3:7, fire is reserved against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The adversaries of the Lord, which includes Judas, as spoken of in Psalms 109, ( Psalm 109:20.) have an evident token of perdition, and to those persecuted by them, of salvation, and that of God. ( Judas, or anyone like Judas, cant have salvation being the persecutor of God, and those who are His.)
Men are drowned in destruction and perdition, as perdition is destruction.
Drawing back, ( Judas is that example of drawing back unto perdition.) is unto perdition, who do not believe to the saving of the soul.
Philippians 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Psalms 109:8, is told about in Acts 1:20. ( let another take his office/his bishoprick let another take.)
But this is not about Judas at all, it is about the mouth of the wicked and deceitful opening up with lying tongues against the Lord, it is about the hatred they had against the Son and the Father, without a cause. ( John 15:25.)
It is about all the adversaries of the Lord, rewarding the Lord evil, for His good, hatred for His love. ( in reward for Jesus laying His life down, Judas offers betrayal.)
Satan is at their right hand, Psalm 109:6. ( satan entered Judas, and all men of perdition he enters. John 13:27.)
When Judas and the men of perdition are judged, they are condemned. ( their prayer becomes sin.)
Their posterity is cut off, their name is blotted out, the memory of them is cut off from the earth. ( out of the book of life. Revelation 3:5.)
They love cursing, cursing comes upon them. ( they are cursed children. 2 Peter 2:14.) they do not delight in blessing, blessing is far from them.
They cloth themselves with cursing, it comes into their bowels like water. ( Judas burst asunder in the field, and all his bowels gushed out/cursing came into his bowels like water.)
They ( the cursed children. 2 Peter 2:14.) are curded with that garment of cursing, continually.
Psalm 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the Lord, and of them that speak evil against my soul.
Judas purchased the field of blood, with the reward of iniquity,
The habitation of Judas ( and all men of perdition. ) is desolation, no man dwells therein. ( it is eternal cursing and swift destruction for men of perdition. ( 1 Timothy 6:9.)
Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Judas, like all unjust men of perdition, are reserved unto the day of judgement to be punished. They like Judas seen in John 14, are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ( John 14:22.)
They are in the lust of uncleanness, 2 Peter 2:10, like Judas was not clean. ( John 13:11.)
They receive the reward of unrighteousness, they love the wages of unrighteousness/iniquity. ( Judas purchased the field of blood, with the REWARD OF INIQUITY. Acts 1:18.)
It had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness. ( good were it for that man/Judas. if he had never been born. Mark 14:21.)
John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Mark 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
That is right, scoffers/mockers, strife, debate, contention, perverse dispute of men, non consenting to the wholesome words of Jesus Christ, mean everybody is the exact same as Judas, all men of perdition.
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Judas is perdition, men who do like Judas are perdition. ( destruction.)
That answers your thread about Judas, that he was an example of perdition. ( destruction.)
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
To escape the judgement of Judas and all men of perdition, ( destruction.) they look to avoid the destruction of thew earth and the heavens, by knowing only the Word does not pass, so they be diligent to be found in Him ( the Word.) in peace, without spot and blameless.
If anyone resists the testimony, the unstable wrest the scriptures to their own destruction. ( perdition with Judas.)
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
For God's purpose he was filled with the Holy Spirit just as the builders were overshadowed with the Holy Spirit to build the Tabernacle. ALL God's prophets and priests were overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. I should have been clearer. I meant in the way believers are filled with the Holy Spirit in general after being born again and converted.
And who are these people? Are they here? Name them so I'll know.
What is the Biblical definition of "perdition?"
Exactly, therefore Paul was a saint, and not a sinner.
A sinner is a person who is without Christ, separated from Christ; wicked and unjust.
For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26
JLB
Paul is not a worker of iniquity=ungodliness=unrighteousness, all unrighteousness is sin. Apostle Paul is an example of keeping the faith. ( 2 Timothy 4:7.)
Judas Iscariot is the example of iniquity, of faithlessness, and all workers of iniquity, ( what is not of faith is sin and is damned.) are the same perdition as Judas. ( Roman 14:23.)
Judas is not an example to follow, as he goes into perdition. Paul is an example to follow, there was laid up for him a crown, as all who follow the right path. ( of good, no evil) receive the same. All the names are of the men of perdition, are the ones who cannot name Jesus Christ in a true confession. ( denying Him in works, being unto every good work reprobate.)
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Judas Iscariot is the example of iniquity, of faithlessness, and all workers of iniquity, ( what is not of faith is sin and is damned.) are the same perdition as Judas. ( Roman 14:23.)
Judas is not an example to follow, as he goes into perdition. Paul is an example to follow, there was laid up for him a crown, as all who follow the right path. ( of good, no evil) receive the same. All the names are of the men of perdition, are the ones who cannot name Jesus Christ in a true confession. ( denying Him in works, being unto every good work reprobate.)
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.