Once saved..always saved....It's right here.

[FreeGrace]

If we're so sealed from the moment that we pray and are born again, then why are we called to be overcomers?

Rev 2:7, 17, 26
1 John 5:5
Rev 3:5

Note what the overcomers get: rewards. None of those verses speak of overcoming in order to get into heaven. Context always reveals what is being spoken of.

 

[JLB]

Yes. Did they BECOME sons of God the way humans did? NO.


And a simple answer.


Where does the Bible say that? If you can't provide any evidence from Scripture other than this assumption, then there is no reason to accept your claim.

We KNOW how humans become children of God from Scripture:
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" Jn 1:12
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:26

Now, if you can show from Scripture that angels are called sons of God by the SAME WAY as humans are, then you'd have a point. Otherwise, you don't.


I sure did. And you have NOT shown that angels have been born again by God. Or that God is their Father.


I'm laughing as well. You haven't proven anything.

Angels are sons of God.

Some of these sons of God were cast into, as Peter used them as an example for us, showing that God's children can indeed be sent to hell in they choose live ungodly and disobedient.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-6

OSAS


JLB

 

[JLB]

Note what the overcomers get: rewards. None of those verses speak of overcoming in order to get into heaven. Context always reveals what is being spoken of.

Overcomers don't get blotted out of the book of life.


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here's a free Bible verse.
Hebrews 1:5;
"For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?".

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You know what's funny.
We all argue with each other.
Sometimes we agree with each other, sometimes we don't.
But you know what?
We're all saved here and we're all gonna end up in heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

Angels are sons of God.

You haven't provided any Scripture that shows that any angel BECAME a son of God the way humans become sons of God, which is through faith in Christ, according to John 1:12 and Gal 3:26. So your point is irrelevant to the discussion.

Nor have you shown from Scripture that God is ever referred to as the Father of angels.

Some of these sons of God were cast into, as Peter used them as an example for us, showing that God's children can indeed be sent to hell in they choose live ungodly and disobedient.

It doesn't show that at all.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-6JLB

You did not prove your claim.

In fact, the ones who have been "made an example" aren't angels as you seem to think, but the inhabitants of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. It's clear as a bell in the very text.

And you haven't addressed any of the 5 reasons I've given that show that Scripture teaches eternal security.

If you want to get my attention and show that I'm wrong, you're going to have to take each reason and refute each point individually. Until then, I am very secure in my belief about what Scripture teaches.

 

[FreeGrace]

Overcomers don't get blotted out of the book of life.
JLB

Scholars describe that phrase as a 'litotes'.

And we know that no one who is IN the book of life has ever been, or ever will be blotted out of that book.

Why not? Because Paul taught that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.

Jesus said that those who have been given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.

These are very clear words. So it's impossible for anyone's name to be blotted out of the book of life.

Oh, there may be just one way: if God put the names of every person of humanity in that book, and blotted out the names of those who NEVER believed, then that's the only way a name would be blotted out.

Bottom line: eternal life is irrevocable. That's what Paul taught.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here's a free Bible verse.
Hebrews 1:5;
"For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?".

How could I have forgotten that verse??!! Thanks for your attention to detail.

And proving that no angel can claim that God is his Father.

 

[JLB]

Only if you can refute what I've posted and show how my view is incorrect.

Did it plainly.

 

[JLB]

How could I have forgotten that verse??!! Thanks for your attention to detail.

And proving that no angel can claim that God is his Father.

Here's what the verse actually says.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten you.

We all know and fully understand that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God the Father.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

However, angels are sons of God.




Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9


JLB

 

[ezra]

personally i find it silly to argue /debate over our salvation can we or can we not lose it.. the Bible tells us we are secure in Christ our salvation is kept by the Power of God . yes salvation is eternal is it a reason /excuse to sin? NO if we will focus on our walk why worry about it. if a person is practicing sin on a every day bases there is a problem and the relation ship is damaged Big question is that person even saved or was they even saved? many things we don,t know

the Bible says in that day God will judge the secrets of our heart by his son Christ Jesus . i have studied this out for many years both sides . here is the conclusion i come up with. follow your own Convictions provided they are backed up by the word .. if you believe you can live like hell every day after being saved and not lose your salvation then so be it. just remember we will all give account of the Good and bad at the judgement seat. i had rather leave this walk of life knowing i tried my best to live for Christ.

i would hate to know i thought i was saved and find out in the end i was not . we do have a know so salvation Grace is a great Gift but never to be used to allow for sin and staying in sin.. that my 2 cents:amen

 

[Cygnus]

What does what we do have anything to do with anything?

There seem to be many misunderstandings here.

W

Isn't it you who say we must perceiver till the end?

 

[Cygnus]

Why not? Please answer from Scripture.

Were you not dead in your sins in trespases...needing to be regenerated?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

the Bible tells us we are secure in Christ our salvation is kept by the Power of God .

Yes, we are kept for the day of salvation by the power of God through faith.

"4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

The power of God is accessed through your faith. No more faith, no more access to the power of God to keep you for the day of salvation.

 

[MarkT]

His sheep are those who follow his instruction and keep his commandments. This is where I differ with the Calvinist. I don't disagree with the teaching that Jesus won't lose any of his sheep. Jesus said it. Indeed we, both the elect and the called, can be quite confident in the bosom of our Lord Jesus Christ that nothing can touch us. But when I say we, I mean those who do. Luke 8:21 Apart from him we can't do anything. John 15:5 Again when I say we, I mean his sheep. His sheep can't do anything apart from him. It makes no sense to argue that we don't have to follow his instruction. Jesus was sent to instruct us. His sheep do what he said, and they don't follow anyone else.

So who are his sheep? They are the ones who do the word of God. What did Jesus say we must do? The first thing I would say is seek the knowledge of God. Read the OT. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Pr. 1:7 Treasure up his commandments Pr. 2:1

Those who don't follow his instruction will die. It makes no sense to argue about losing salvation after a person is dead, and those who fall away from the truth are dead. Like salt that has lost its saltness Mt. 5:13 or a branch that doesn't get water and so it withers John 15:6, there is nothing left to save.

I think it's sound doctrine that we are safe in our Lord if we keep his commandments and do what he said.

 

[ezra]

No more faith, no more access to the power of God to keep you for the day of salvation.

yes our faith is the key but GOD holds the key our salvation is more secure than most think. but the way you worded it is not scripture or at least i am not aware of it

 

[JLB]

His sheep are those who follow his instruction and keep his commandments. This is where I differ with the Calvinist. I don't disagree with the teaching that Jesus won't lose any of his sheep. Jesus said it. Indeed we, both the elect and the called, can be quite confident in the bosom of our Lord Jesus Christ that nothing can touch us.

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd...27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:16,27-29

If the sheep of verse 27 represent "all believers", then who are the other sheep in verse 16?

The "sheep" of verse 27 represent His disciples.

The "sheep" that "my Father has given Me" is a direct reference to His disciples, as he makes this clear later in chapter 17...


John 17 -

12 While I was with them in the world,I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled... 20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;


I do not pray for these alone... is clearly a reference to His disciples.


None of them are lost, except the son of perdition is referring to His disciples and Judas Iscariot, that followed Him while He was on earth in the flesh.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Did it plainly.

Nope.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here's what the verse actually says.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten you.

We all know and fully understand that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God the Father.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

However, angels are sons of God.

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9
JLB

I have no idea what you are trying to prove.

Those who have believed in Christ have been given the free gift of eternal life (Jn 3:16, 6:40) WILL NEVER PERISH, according to Jesus in Jn 10:28. I do believe that.

Who does He give eternal life to? Those who "entered through Him and are saved" per Jn 10:9.

Therefore, those who are saved WILL NEVER PERISH.

Now, the onus is on you to provide any verse that teaches that a saved person can become unsaved.

And I mean apart from assumption and jumping to conclusions that are not based on what Scripture says.

 

[FreeGrace]

You said this:
"The question concerning free will towards salvation comes down to this...
Why do some people choose Jesus and others not?

The answer is those that don't choose Jesus don't choose Jesus because they can't."

I asked this:
"Why not? Please answer from Scripture."

Were you not dead in your sins in trespases...needing to be regenerated?

Everyone is born dead in our sins and need to be regenerated. But that doesn't answer my question regarding your statement about people who "can't" choose.

Again, please answer from Scripture.

Thanks.