Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)!

[JLB]

John and Butch,

Let's see some scripture, 2 or 3 examples that show what you believe about salvation being lost.

Here's one to consider -

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

Hi JBL,

Here is one that I think ends any discussion for the serious inquirer.

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. (1Ti 5:11-15 KJV)

I don't see how anyone gets around Paul's words here. Waxed wanton against Christ, cast of their faith, received damnation, and turned aside after Satan, that seems pretty clear. And they are Christians because Paul says they cast off their faith.

That's pretty clear.

That term "turned aside after Satan" is not to be confused with what Paul taught about deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.1 Corinthians 5:5

In the one case the person themselves "turned aside after Satan" thus it was their choice. They chose of their will to turn aside after Satan.

In the other case, and we can see the result clearly, Paul exercised his authority to allow Satan to have access to the flesh of the trespasser so that his spirit would be saved...

Great scripture, thanks for sharing and teaching truth from God's word.


The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27


JLB

 

[JLB]

Maybe you could comment on the scripture I posted? JLB

My comment would not be worth anyone's time beyond your posting it. However, I'll give you one of my favorite scriptures concerning the security of our salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 (NIV) 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That is a beautiful scripture and I quote it myself.

I believe it with all my heart. I also believe that if a person chose to turn aside after Satan, that God would still love that person, even in hell.

The one thing that is not mentioned in the list is your will.

I don't believe anything can snatch us out of His hand, but if chose to turn away after other gods or turn aside after Satan then that is another matter altogether.

That is why Paul warned us about the apostasy, the falling away in the last days.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Many will turn aside after Satan by being deceived with false signs and wonders.

The scary part is that God will be sending them strong delusion.

This principle is also found in the Old testament.


1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods'--which you have not known--'and let us serve them,' 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3

Let us therefore take heed lest we fall.

JLB

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk,

I've not changed my mind. I'm also not off base. What's off base is the modern teachings. I told you I went back to the beginning. What's off base is the 2000 years of baggage that has been added to the faith.

Well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Blessings.

 

[iLOVE]

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37 ESV (This means, "never under any circumstances will I ever cast you out once you have come to Me.") Once God makes a clear promise, it can never be broken. This offended the self-righteous religious people (as it still does today). We can no more become “unborn” spiritually than we can become unborn physically.

If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. 2 Timothy 2:13

These verses emphasizes the Divine side of salvation.

These passages need to be understood in context. John 6 was spoken to Jews. Jesus said He had only come to the Jews. Also, He said He would never cast them out, He didn't say they could never leave.

The passage in 2 Timothy in context just said if we deny Him, He will deny us. That is the same thing Jesus said. What does He remain faithful to? Himself. What did He say?

33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (Mat 10:33 NKJ)

By being faithful to Himself, He is faithful to what He said.

GM,
John 6:37 refers to all, whomever they may be, whether Isaraelites, Gentiles, Pharisees, Scoffers, Harlots, or even the very Castaways of the Devil. It proclaims to all a promise of unparalleled proportion; no one has ever been turned away, and no one will ever be turned away.

II Timothy 2:6 means if we believe what He did at the Cross, despite the unbeblief of many, He will be Faithful to Redeem all who come to Him in Faith: Heaven will never change the Plan of Redemption and Victory, which is the Cross.

 

[eddif]

Maybe you could comment on the scripture I posted? JLB

My comment would not be worth anyone's time beyond your posting it. However, I'll give you one of my favorite scriptures concerning the security of our salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 (NIV) 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is such a tough place to go.

I chose this post because of the scripture used, and not the comments.

OSAS. To help me survive I just always substitute "Once Salvation Always Salvation". I do not insist on this, but it seems to fit my understanding. God is never going to stop salvation. It does seem that individuals may face problems using their personal faith to remain saved. If an individual uses: Church help in the temptations of life, Holy Spirit working in us, Jesus interceding for us, Church discipline, etc.----then Salvation is permanent. Individuals face working out situations with help from all the help provided.

IMHO
eddif

 

[iLOVE]

Maybe you could comment on the scripture I posted? JLB

My comment would not be worth anyone's time beyond your posting it. However, I'll give you one of my favorite scriptures concerning the security of our salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 (NIV) 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Glory to God!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Butch5]

John and Butch,

Let's see some scripture, 2 or 3 examples that show what you believe about salvation being lost.

Here's one to consider -

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

Hi JBL,

Here is one that I think ends any discussion for the serious inquirer.

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. (1Ti 5:11-15 KJV)

I don't see how anyone gets around Paul's words here. Waxed wanton against Christ, cast of their faith, received damnation, and turned aside after Satan, that seems pretty clear. And they are Christians because Paul says they cast off their faith.

That's pretty clear.

That term "turned aside after Satan" is not to be confused with what Paul taught about deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.1 Corinthians 5:5

In the one case the person themselves "turned aside after Satan" thus it was their choice. They chose of their will to turn aside after Satan.

In the other case, and we can see the result clearly, Paul exercised his authority to allow Satan to have access to the flesh of the trespasser so that his spirit would be saved...

Great scripture, thanks for sharing and teaching truth from God's word.


The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27


JLB

Hi JBL,

I agree with your analysis of the passages. I think when Paul turns one over to Satan, his purpose is to bring about repentance.

 

[Butch5]

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37 ESV (This means, "never under any circumstances will I ever cast you out once you have come to Me.") Once God makes a clear promise, it can never be broken. This offended the self-righteous religious people (as it still does today). We can no more become “unborn” spiritually than we can become unborn physically.

If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. 2 Timothy 2:13

These verses emphasizes the Divine side of salvation.

These passages need to be understood in context. John 6 was spoken to Jews. Jesus said He had only come to the Jews. Also, He said He would never cast them out, He didn't say they could never leave.

The passage in 2 Timothy in context just said if we deny Him, He will deny us. That is the same thing Jesus said. What does He remain faithful to? Himself. What did He say?

33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (Mat 10:33 NKJ)

By being faithful to Himself, He is faithful to what He said.

GM,
John 6:37 refers to all, whomever they may be, whether Isaraelites, Gentiles, Pharisees, Scoffers, Harlots, or even the very Castaways of the Devil. It proclaims to all a promise of unparalleled proportion; no one has ever been turned away, and no one will ever be turned away.

II Timothy 2:6 means if we believe what He did at the Cross, despite the unbeblief of many, He will be Faithful to Redeem all who come to Him in Faith: Heaven will never change the Plan of Redemption and Victory, which is the Cross.

Hi iLove,

The context simply won't support that.

 

[Deborah13]

We have the promise of eternal life but we don't have possession of it now. If we did we wouldn't die. However, all men sin and all men die. However, of the one who dies in Christ there remains the redemption and the gift of eternal life.

I see it this way. As a Christian my spirit is alive in Christ. My physical body, which will die as you say, is not me it's just a body.
The real person does not die on this earth.
A Christian will never die, eternal life in Christ.

 

[John Zain]

Man has convinced himself in many ways that he can mock God
by living anyway he wants to and get into Heaven anyway.

What's off base is the modern teachings. I told you I went back to the beginning.
What's off base is the 2000 years of baggage that has been added to the faith.

Yes, just look at the OT ... the disobedient ones were left strewn all over the desert floor, etc.

2000 years of progressively watered-down Christianity.

Even Christians just don't get it ...
Satan is "the god/ruler of this world/age" (John 12:31, 2 Cor 4:4),
and church leaders, etc. are more than willing to co-operate with him.

The Lord won't mess with our ultimate free-will choices ... to be or not to be (obedient)!

 

[reba]

Man has convinced himself in many ways that he can mock God
by living anyway he wants to and get into Heaven anyway.

What's off base is the modern teachings. I told you I went back to the beginning.
What's off base is the 2000 years of baggage that has been added to the faith.

Yes, just look at the OT ... the disobedient ones were left strewn all over the desert floor, etc.

2000 years of progressively watered-down Christianity.

Even Christians just don't get it ...
Satan is "the god/ruler of this world/age" (John 12:31, 2 Cor 4:4),
and church leaders, etc. are more than willing to co-operate with him.

The Lord won't mess with our ultimate free-will choices ... to be or not to be (obedient)!

Psa_47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

1Ch_16:14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.

Psa_47:2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.

Joh_12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

[Butch5]

We have the promise of eternal life but we don't have possession of it now. If we did we wouldn't die. However, all men sin and all men die. However, of the one who dies in Christ there remains the redemption and the gift of eternal life.

I see it this way. As a Christian my spirit is alive in Christ. My physical body, which will die as you say, is not me it's just a body.
The real person does not die on this earth.
A Christian will never die, eternal life in Christ.

Hi Deborah,

I used to believe along those lines, however, after going through an extensive study of the Scriptures I have concluded that man does not have a spirit other than God's spirit. If we look at the creation account we find that God created Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed His spirit/breath into him, and Adam became a living soul. From this we can deduce that a soul consists of a body and God's spirit/breath. There is no mention of any other spirit here than that of God. Likewise the Scriptures say when a man dies the body returns to the ground and the spirit/breath returns to God, that would be God's spirit/breath. If you are interested in the study let me know, it is in audio format with notes.

 

[Butch5]

We have the promise of eternal life but we don't have possession of it now. If we did we wouldn't die. However, all men sin and all men die. However, of the one who dies in Christ there remains the redemption and the gift of eternal life.

I see it this way. As a Christian my spirit is alive in Christ. My physical body, which will die as you say, is not me it's just a body.
The real person does not die on this earth.
A Christian will never die, eternal life in Christ.

Hi Deborah,

Is that a western Meadowlark as your avatar?

 

[Guest]

Take Judas Iscariot for example, dude just ended up to be an apostate in the end, a false prophet. Notice Galatians 5:22 also says the fruit of faithfulness.

 

[Butch5]

Take Judas Iscariot for example, dude just ended up to be an apostate in the end, a false prophet. Notice Galatians 5:22 also says the fruit of faithfulness.

I'm not following you here.

 

[Guest]

Take Judas Iscariot for example, dude just ended up to be an apostate in the end, a false prophet. Notice Galatians 5:22 also says the fruit of faithfulness.

I'm not following you here.

Meaning that he was never saved to begin with, he just played the part well.

 

[Butch5]

Take Judas Iscariot for example, dude just ended up to be an apostate in the end, a false prophet. Notice Galatians 5:22 also says the fruit of faithfulness.

I'm not following you here.

Meaning that he was never saved to begin with, he just played the part well.

I still don't know what you mean. Why did you mention Judas?

 

[Guest]

Take Judas Iscariot for example, dude just ended up to be an apostate in the end, a false prophet. Notice Galatians 5:22 also says the fruit of faithfulness.

I'm not following you here.

Meaning that he was never saved to begin with, he just played the part well.

I still don't know what you mean. Why did you mention Judas?

Do you not know the story behind Judas?

 

[Butch5]

Meaning that he was never saved to begin with, he just played the part well.

I still don't know what you mean. Why did you mention Judas?

Do you not know the story behind Judas?

Yes, I do, however, I am not seeing the point you're making.

 

[Guest]

Meaning that he was never saved to begin with, he just played the part well.

I still don't know what you mean. Why did you mention Judas?

Do you not know the story behind Judas?

Yes, I do, however, I am not seeing the point you're making.

Think about it Butch, just make sure to get back to me when it's clicked. Hint, what thread are we in?