Once Saved, Always Saved?

[chestertonrules]

OSAS is contradicted by many scripture passages. Here are a few:

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".

Romans 8:13 "For if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live".

1 John 2:4-6 "The one who says, I have come to know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked".

1 Timothy 4:1 "But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons".

Deuteronomy 8:11 "Take care that you do not forget the Lord your God, by failing to keep his commandments, his ordinances, and his statutes, which I am commanding you today".

John 6:66-68 "As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were not walking with Him anymore. Jesus said therefore to the twelve, You do not want to go away also, do you? Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? It is You who has the words of eternal life".

2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."

John 15:4-6 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".

 

[watchman F]

Here are some more scripture that disprove OSAS

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou shall also be cut off.


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now have been reconciled.
22 In the body of His flesh through His death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight.
23 IF you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am a minister;
Like in Romans 11:22 we see the big IF, If we continue in the faith, being grounded and settled, not being moved away from the hope of the gospel. We will be presented holy, unblameable, unreproveable before God. If we are moved away not continuing in the faith then we will not be presented holy before God.
This clearly shows we can be moved away from God after we have been reconciled. Verse 21 said we were enemies of God by wicked works and if we continue to engage in wicked works after we have been ''saved'' we will continue to be enemies of God.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those that were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come.
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance seeing they crucify themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

2nd Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.


And then you have Jesus telling the Churches they MUST REPENT or else.

Revelation 2:1-5
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write: These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven candle sticks;
2 I know thy works and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou can not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them that say they are apostles, and are not and found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name sake thou hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly and remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come against you quickly, and fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 3:1-5
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars, I know thy works, that thou has a name that livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things that remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before the God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast and repent. If thou shall not watch I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shall not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot their name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

 

[mondar]

On any particular issue, from whatever point of view, why do people list verses as though they prove something? Is the assumption that the longer the list, the better the proof? I often observe that most the time such behavior occurs, the verses used are not used in proper context.

Would it not be better to select what you believe is the best verse to state a point, and then we can discuss the context of that one verse?

Are the lists of verses a debating tactic where if you quote 9 verses out of context, maybe at least one of them are quoted in context?

 

[XTruth]

I agree... OSAS is a lie taught by seducing spirits from the doctrines of demons. Here is the entire book of the most research book I've ever seen disproving "Once Saved, Always Saved" from Genesis through Revelation. It includes all the verses used by both sides of the doctrine including hundreds more. It is written in order of the Bible for easy reference of any verse one may want to find. I do have the author's permission, so here it is.... www.conditionalsalvation.com/free_book

 

[francisdesales]

I agree... OSAS is a lie taught by seducing spirits from the doctrines of demons. Here is the entire book of the most research book I've ever seen disproving "Once Saved, Always Saved" from Genesis through Revelation. It includes all the verses used by both sides of the doctrine including hundreds more. It is written in order of the Bible for easy reference of any verse one may want to find. I do have the author's permission, so here it is.... http://www.conditionalsalvation.com/free_book

How about we put a pasty on this and have the Administrators post it so we never have to argue about this silly thing again???

Ever.

Regards

 

[watchman F]

On any particular issue, from whatever point of view, why do people list verses as though they prove something? Is the assumption that the longer the list, the better the proof? I often observe that most the time such behavior occurs, the verses used are not used in proper context.

Would it not be better to select what you believe is the best verse to state a point, and then we can discuss the context of that one verse?

Are the lists of verses a debating tactic where if you quote 9 verses out of context, maybe at least one of them are quoted in context?

Are you an advocate of the OSAS doctrine?

 

[mondar]

Your question is not simple to me. It will take a complex answer. While I do not like OSAS, I am even further from you then them.

I believe that justification comes not on the basis of any works, but by faith alone. If justification comes by faith alone through the imputed righteousness and substitutionary death of Christ (Romans 4), then why would God suddenly decided that works keep us saved after he declares us righteous (justified). Would the basis of our justification suddenly change after justification? I would need a very major and clear text of scripture before I believe the basis of our justification suddenly changes to our own works, from the work of God. In other words, if my salvation was the work of Christ on the cross before salvation, why would it change after salvation? If God declared me to be righteous (justified) on the basis of the cross work of Christ before salvation, why would the basis of salvation change after salvation?

Furthermore, if the cause of faith is regeneration (1 John 5:1; John 6:44) then the cause of our righteous living is also regeneration. If regeneration is not caused by works, but is an act of the mercy of God (Titus 3:5), to imply that we can loose our salvation by not having the correct works is to imply that the work of the HS in regeneration is insufficient to cause true faith, or that it results in good works.

Yet there is more. When I look at how God deals with the Carnal and sinning Christian, I do not see a loss of salvation. I would agree that there is a loss of reward (1Cor 3), sometimes even a loss of life in the would (1 Cor 11), but not a loss of salvation. Let me explain from the book of 1 cor (as per the references above).

Many Corinthian Christians were carnal. 1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. (all quotes from ASV) These Christians, because of fleshliness, had fallen into sin. Now let me say that there were not the guys out in the gutters, drinking, and having no relationship with God. The carnal Christian is already in Church, and is probably the guy with the nicest suit, and the biggest bible in his arms. He does not live like a non-Christian, but a fleshly Christian. His behavior is divisive, and the Corinthian Chrurch had their divisions. 1Co 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?
1Co 3:4 For when one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not men? These divisions spilled out into the Lords supper. 1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you. These Corinthian Christians were being chastened because of their sin. The chastening was so severe that at times it was unto physical death. 1Co 11:30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep. This chastening, no matter how severe, was not unto a loss of eternal salvation, but rather Gods judgment on the sin of Christians was so that we would not be "condemned with the world." 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. In other words, I am saying that before the Christians sins a sin which would bring about his loss of salvation, God would first chasten him, or even take his life.

So then, to conclude, first, I do not believe that the Christian life could possibly be so sinful that we could lose salvation. An extremely sinful life would be evidence that regeneration never really took place and the person was never saved. The works of God through the Christian are not so weak and fallible. Also, if we are saved by the grace of God, then why would God suddenly change everything after salvation to make salvation based upon Human effort.

So do I believe in OSAS? Well, not really. OSAS seems to me to be an incomplete doctrine. OSAS does not go far enough. However, I am not agreeing with you either. I would see you as being far closer to OSAS then what you think. I am viewing salvation as powerful and complete and totally the work of God for man, and in now way, the work of man for God. Salvation is a divine undertaking, and not anything that man can accomplish of themselves. I would see the outworking of righteousness in the life of a Christian as the work of God in man, and not the work of man for God to keep his own salvation. Can the work of God be so feeble as to not change the nature of man sufficiently to bring about at least some righteousness? Would God really leave his children sin so far that they loose their inheritance? Or would be take them home to him before they sin to such an extent? Is the love of God so fickle that he will not give us a powerful completed salvation? I am guessing Paul would have said, "may it never be" (?? ???????).

 

[archangel_300]

I do believe in OSAS and I think anyone that doesn't is walking on a very dangerous fine line towards a works+grace gospel. Think about it this way, what can we do to lose our salvation? You may think well I can do A,B and/or C and then that means I've lost my salvation. Well this means on the flip side if there is something that you can do to lose your salvation there is something you *must* do to keep your salvation (namely do not do A,B and/or C). Thus this means that salvation is dependent upon your works and not God's grace and the cross of Christ alone. The scriptures warn very carefully that if we attempt to obey the law for salvation we are under a curse to obey it perfectly in order to attain it. This we know is not possible (Galatians 2:16,Galatians 3:10) Once we have been saved we have inherited eternal life and that means it's life that never ends and the second death cannot conquer us. We have passed from death to life. (John 5:24,Romans 8:1-2)

If salvation is dependent upon us in an way shape or form this negates the cross of Christ and renders it meaningless. You need to understand how the blood of Christ saves us in order to fully understand OSAS.

Many of the scripture verses stated that "disprove OSAS" are taken out of their correct context.
They need to be read and compared with the rest of scripture in order to understand them. Some scripture verses are not referring to those who have been saved but rather those that may have come close to salvation but never really attained it.

 

[watchman F]

Your question is not simple to me. It will take a complex answer. While I do not like OSAS, I am even further from you then them.

I believe that justification comes not on the basis of any works, but by faith alone. If justification comes by faith alone through the imputed righteousness and substitutionary death of Christ (Romans 4), then why would God suddenly decided that works keep us saved after he declares us righteous (justified). Would the basis of our justification suddenly change after justification? I would need a very major and clear text of scripture before I believe the basis of our justification suddenly changes to our own works, from the work of God. In other words, if my salvation was the work of Christ on the cross before salvation, why would it change after salvation? If God declared me to be righteous (justified) on the basis of the cross work of Christ before salvation, why would the basis of salvation change after salvation?

Furthermore, if the cause of faith is regeneration (1 John 5:1; John 6:44) then the cause of our righteous living is also regeneration. If regeneration is not caused by works, but is an act of the mercy of God (Titus 3:5), to imply that we can loose our salvation by not having the correct works is to imply that the work of the HS in regeneration is insufficient to cause true faith, or that it results in good works.

Yet there is more. When I look at how God deals with the Carnal and sinning Christian, I do not see a loss of salvation. I would agree that there is a loss of reward (1Cor 3), sometimes even a loss of life in the would (1 Cor 11), but not a loss of salvation. Let me explain from the book of 1 cor (as per the references above).

Many Corinthian Christians were carnal. 1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. (all quotes from ASV) These Christians, because of fleshliness, had fallen into sin. Now let me say that there were not the guys out in the gutters, drinking, and having no relationship with God. The carnal Christian is already in Church, and is probably the guy with the nicest suit, and the biggest bible in his arms. He does not live like a non-Christian, but a fleshly Christian. His behavior is divisive, and the Corinthian Chrurch had their divisions. 1Co 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?
1Co 3:4 For when one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not men? These divisions spilled out into the Lords supper. 1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you. These Corinthian Christians were being chastened because of their sin. The chastening was so severe that at times it was unto physical death. 1Co 11:30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep. This chastening, no matter how severe, was not unto a loss of eternal salvation, but rather Gods judgment on the sin of Christians was so that we would not be "condemned with the world." 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. In other words, I am saying that before the Christians sins a sin which would bring about his loss of salvation, God would first chasten him, or even take his life.

So then, to conclude, first, I do not believe that the Christian life could possibly be so sinful that we could lose salvation. An extremely sinful life would be evidence that regeneration never really took place and the person was never saved. The works of God through the Christian are not so weak and fallible. Also, if we are saved by the grace of God, then why would God suddenly change everything after salvation to make salvation based upon Human effort.

So do I believe in OSAS? Well, not really. OSAS seems to me to be an incomplete doctrine. OSAS does not go far enough. However, I am not agreeing with you either. I would see you as being far closer to OSAS then what you think. I am viewing salvation as powerful and complete and totally the work of God for man, and in now way, the work of man for God. Salvation is a divine undertaking, and not anything that man can accomplish of themselves. I would see the outworking of righteousness in the life of a Christian as the work of God in man, and not the work of man for God to keep his own salvation. Can the work of God be so feeble as to not change the nature of man sufficiently to bring about at least some righteousness? Would God really leave his children sin so far that they loose their inheritance? Or would be take them home to him before they sin to such an extent? Is the love of God so fickle that he will not give us a powerful completed salvation? I am guessing Paul would have said, "may it never be" (?? ???????).

Good answer, and sorry for such a short response, but in a nut shell I agree with you that our justification is not of works, but of faith. However if we truly had a relationship with Christ we would allow Him to purify us in every way therefore we would not continue in unrepentant sin. Even so I do believe that someone who has had a real conversion could decide to give it all up and return to sin. Therefore I do not believe in traditional OSAS or your version which says that if we fall away we were never saved in the first place.

 

[watchman F]

I do believe in OSAS and I think anyone that doesn't is walking on a very dangerous fine line towards a works+grace gospel. Think about it this way, what can we do to lose our salvation?

We can decide we no longer want to serve God and return to serving sin and self. God will not force us to serve Him.

 

[archangel_300]

[quote="archangel_300":344qpeok]I do believe in OSAS and I think anyone that doesn't is walking on a very dangerous fine line towards a works+grace gospel. Think about it this way, what can we do to lose our salvation?

We can decide we no longer want to serve God and return to serving sin and self. God will not force us to serve Him.[/quote:344qpeok]

If that's the case it means that we were never saved in the first place.
For instance in Mark 4 Jesus talks about the parable of the sower and the seed.
The moral of the story being that there are those that may have the apperance of a Christian or may have come close to the word of God but in the end they wither and die because the word of God never really took root in their lives. If we truly have been born again our old nature has become dead and our new life in Christ becomes more and more apparent as time passes on. It's a transforming experience when the word of God lives in us. We will desire to serve Christ and repent of sin. If we do not have this in our lives it's possible we are deceiving ourselves into thinking we have become saved when we haven't.

 

[watchman F]

[quote="watchman F":2knqr30r][quote="archangel_300":2knqr30r]I do believe in OSAS and I think anyone that doesn't is walking on a very dangerous fine line towards a works+grace gospel. Think about it this way, what can we do to lose our salvation?

We can decide we no longer want to serve God and return to serving sin and self. God will not force us to serve Him.[/quote:2knqr30r]

If that's the case it means that we were never saved in the first place. [/quote:2knqr30r]
Not true

 

[archangel_300]

Watchman F, we can certainly agree to disagree.

 

[chestertonrules]

If that's the case it means that we were never saved in the first place.
For instance in Mark 4 Jesus talks about the parable of the sower and the seed.
The moral of the story being that there are those that may have the apperance of a Christian or may have come close to the word of God but in the end they wither and die because the word of God never really took root in their lives. If we truly have been born again our old nature has become dead and our new life in Christ becomes more and more apparent as time passes on. It's a transforming experience when the word of God lives in us. We will desire to serve Christ and repent of sin. If we do not have this in our lives it's possible we are deceiving ourselves into thinking we have become saved when we haven't.

We can lose salvation through sin, placing other desires above that of following Jesus and bearing fruit:

17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

 

[francisdesales]

Many of the scripture verses stated that "disprove OSAS" are taken out of their correct context.
They need to be read and compared with the rest of scripture in order to understand them. Some scripture verses are not referring to those who have been saved but rather those that may have come close to salvation but never really attained it.

???? Where does the Bible say that people "came close" but "never achieved salvation"??? You either are saved and are freed from sin, or you aren't. This isn't horseshoes or hand grenades...

A person can be the most wonderful and loving man in the world for twenty years, a very saintly person, but if he falls away and doubts that even God exists, we can be sure that that past 20 years was just false love and God really wasn't there to begin with...??? Ridiculous

People claim they are saved forever, and then fall away. Who's kidding who? OSAS is not security at all, because you can THINK you are saved and ACT like you are saved, and know with all of your heart TODAY that you are saved for heaven, but if you doubt God and fall away later in life, oh, "you weren't REALLY saved to begin with". What happened to that "I'm sure I'm saved" from a few years ago???

What a joke. OSAS is insecurity, because you don't even know if a year from now, your current status of today will be questioned...

 

[archangel_300]

Many of the scripture verses stated that "disprove OSAS" are taken out of their correct context.
They need to be read and compared with the rest of scripture in order to understand them. Some scripture verses are not referring to those who have been saved but rather those that may have come close to salvation but never really attained it.

???? Where does the Bible say that people "came close" but "never achieved salvation"??? You either are saved and are freed from sin, or you aren't. This isn't horseshoes or hand grenades...

A person can be the most wonderful and loving man in the world for twenty years, a very saintly person, but if he falls away and doubts that even God exists, we can be sure that that past 20 years was just false love and God really wasn't there to begin with...??? Ridiculous

People claim they are saved forever, and then fall away. Who's kidding who? OSAS is not security at all, because you can THINK you are saved and ACT like you are saved, and know with all of your heart TODAY that you are saved for heaven, but if you doubt God and fall away later in life, oh, "you weren't REALLY saved to begin with". What happened to that "I'm sure I'm saved" from a few years ago???

What a joke. OSAS is insecurity, because you don't even know if a year from now, your current status of today will be questioned...

It's actually not ridiculous... the scriptures teach that there is none good not one. A "very saintly" person still has sin in their lives that require payment to be made. The scriptures teach that none of us are "good". Romans 3:10. To clarify what I mean when I say "came close" please read Mark 4 the parable of the sower. Perhaps these people may go to church and be exposed to the gospel week after week. The word of God is close and they have the potential to come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ because faith comes by hearing God's word. Romans 10:17. But the word of God never really takes root in their soul and conversion never takes place. They eventually die... as in the parable of the sower. Look at Judas Iscariot as an example, he was one of Jesus disciples and yet it was clear he wasn't saved in the first place. Also read Matthew 7:21-22. They understood God, they thought they walked with Him but Christ says to them "I never knew you".

No one can see into someone's soul to know whether or not they are saved. We all have our weaknesses and we fall into greivious sin everyone once in a while. We all go through our periods of doubt where we doubt our faith and God's existence. But if I start off exhibiting characteristics of a converted person and later go back to live a life of sin and I no longer believe in God then was I really saved to begin with? A born again believer has the Holy Spirit residing in him and that is eternal life that can never end.

 

[Cornelius]

Rom 11:22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou (Christian) also shalt be cut off.

Here God is speaking to Christians, warning them that if they do not continue in His goodness, they too shall be cut off.

 

[mondar]

Rom 11:22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou (Christian) also shalt be cut off.

Here God is speaking to Christians, warning them that if they do not continue in His goodness, they too shall be cut off.

(All my quotes are from ASV)
The context of the quoted passage refers to the "Olive Tree" illustration.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Verse 24 refers to the natural olive branch being "cut off." This refers to Israel as a nation having the blessings of God in salvation removed. It is not talking about an individual person, but the nation as a whole. Going back to the verse quoted by Cornelius, verse 22 is referring to Gentiles. Again, not individual Gentiles, but just Gentiles. Gentiles are not to be puffed up, because God can "cut off" their interests in salvation also. In fact verse 25 has a hint of a possible time when God could "cut off" the Gentiles. I am referring to the phrase the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Let me add that the text does not affirm that this will happen. In fact verse 12 hints at just the opposite when it says, "Rom 11:12 Now if their fall, is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" So then, the cutting off here refers to the "fall" if Israel, and not the loss of salvation of an individual.

To read the verses in Romans 11 as referring to an individual that was once saved, and now is no longer saved is to do great violence to the context of the Chapter.

 

[Cornelius]

Sorry this has nothing to do with context. Even IN context, these words are still the same and still mean the same thing. To read them as is , does not in any way change their meaning. IN the chapter, or outside the chapter. We are to read verses within the Biblical context and not just within chapter context. Psalm 119:160 : The SUM of they Word is true.

The SUM indeed tells us that Christians can indeed be lost.

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 10:39 But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.