once saved always saved

[Deborah13]

Doubts about what? My faith is the strongest it has ever been in my life right now.

Do you understand the Catholic argument I presented? If you do, explain to me how it is wrong.



Did you know non-OSAS was in the church for 1500 years before OSAS came along. So now who isn't sticking to the truth?

Which 1500 yrs? Before the reformation?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My first statement was worded rather like yours that accuse the whole church of teaching grace that is lawless. The whole church being accused of something because of some sticks in my craw, too.

BOO! You know full well I have qualified my statements as speaking generally of the church. I even used to purposely say I was doing that for your benefit.

 

[Deborah13]

BOO! You know full well I have qualified my statements as speaking generally of the church. I even used to purposely say I was doing that for your benefit.

Yup, you started doing it cause I kept YELLING at you! :shades

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Which 1500 yrs? Before the reformation?

That's what they say.

St. Augustine's misuse of 1 John 2:19 didn't find root in the church until centuries later.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yup, you started doing it cause I kept YELLING at you! :shades

I don't this so. I became more careful to do it when I saw you did not like being broad stroked into the church I was talking about....even though you agreed with them (how does that work ).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Doubts about what? My faith is the strongest it has ever been in my life right now.

Do you understand the Catholic argument I presented? If you do, explain to me how it is wrong.



Did you know non-OSAS was in the church for 1500 years before OSAS came along. So now who isn't sticking to the truth?

You say faith never supercedes (my spelling is smarter than yours) Scripture, and yet you base your belief on this issue with faith.
Which is it, faith or Scripture (always capitalize Scripture please when used alone).
As far as your Catholic argument, you're going straight to hell, the Catechism says so.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't this so. I became more careful to do it when I saw you did not like being broad stroked into the church I was talking about....even though you agreed with them (how does that work ).

Well, I'd say you misunderstood why I didn't like it. It didn't have anything to do with me or my beliefs in that broad stroke. The reason I didn't like it was because I know that is not what most grace teachers preach and neither did the early Protestant church fathers. They never taught and don't teach 'Cheap Grace'.
Haven't you ever felt indignation for someone else?

 

[Deborah13]

You say faith never supercedes (my spelling is smarter than yours) Scripture, and yet you base your belief on this issue with faith.
Which is it, faith or Scripture (always capitalize Scripture please when used alone).
As far as your Catholic argument, you're going straight to hell, the Catechism says so.

Nope, my sister-in-law is afraid my family will go to purgatory until we get straightened out.

 

[iLOVE]

But faith never supersedes the scriptures. That's where you go wrong.

What’s the difference between two people who stand on the same scripture, when one gets results and the other one doesn’t? The difference is this: the person who didn’t get any results was simply reading the written Word. The person who got results read the written Word and heard a rhema—a voice—Word behind the written Word. Let me explain.

Remember when Jesus asked His disciples, “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?” (Matthew 16:13). Peter answered, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16:16). Jesus told Peter, “Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 16:17).

What Jesus essentially said was that Peter did not pull that knowledge from his own mind; it came straight from the Father to him. What Peter heard from God was revealed knowledge. That’s called revelation!

Revelation knowledge is wisdom. It doesn’t come through the acrobats of your mind or through all of the degrees you’ve earned from schooling. It comes from God! Revelation knowledge is the key to breakthrough and success. When you have a revelation about something, you cannot be defeated!

 

[JLB]

iLove said -

Revelation knowledge is wisdom. It doesn’t come through the acrobats of your mind or through all of the degrees you’ve earned from schooling. It comes from God! Revelation knowledge is the key to breakthrough and success. When you have a revelation about something, you cannot be defeated!

Yes!

Come on with it!!!

:amen

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What’s the difference between two people who stand on the same scripture, when one gets results and the other one doesn’t? The difference is this: the person who didn’t get any results was simply reading the written Word. The person who got results read the written Word and heard a rhema—a voice—Word behind the written Word. Let me explain.

You don't have to explain it to this dog. My first pastor after I got saved was a Rhema Bible college graduate. The problem comes in when a man's imagination becomes 'rhema' word from God.

Revelation knowledge is the key to breakthrough and success. When you have a revelation about something, you cannot be defeated!

Only if you act on it. If one takes satisfaction out of having heard from God and uses that alone as the basis for their comfort and security in salvation they are in big trouble. But many do that. They quietly remind themselves that salvation is not by works and continue on their merry way thinking that all is well with God because they've heard from him and so all will go well with them on the Day of Wrath. They are in for a big, big surprise.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The reason I didn't like it was because I know that is not what most grace teachers preach and neither did the early Protestant church fathers. They never taught and don't teach 'Cheap Grace'.

You, sister, are so very wrong. OSAS has inundated the Protestant Church. Thinking that your salvation is completely and totally disconnected from what you do has swept the church. For so many it's all about what you think and believe. Right now many are hearing what I'm saying as 'you are saved by your works'. The indoctrination is so strong that many can not hear how that is not a doctrine of works salvation even when you calmly explain it to them.

Faith justifies, all by itself. But few know that the faith that justifies, all by itself, leaves footprints consistent with that faith such that if the footprints are not visible then the faith they claim to have will not save them on the day of wrath. Even now people are reading this and simply can't grasp what I'm saying....and can't grasp how that can't be a works gospel. They will continue to believe that because salvation is by faith, all by itself, it doesn't matter what they do. They are in for a big, big surprise on the Day of Wrath. Jesus warned us ahead of time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You say faith never supercedes (my spelling is smarter than yours) Scripture, and yet you base your belief on this issue with faith.
Which is it, faith or Scripture (always capitalize Scripture please when used alone).

It's faith that is consistent with scripture. ('Scripture', sorry).

You can have 'faith' all day long that you can live like the devil and you're going to be saved on the Day of Wrath because 'salvation is not by works'. But that 'faith' is not consistent with the word of God. That is a faith that you can not take comfort in. It's not from God and it has no power to do anything in the life of a person except condemn them. This is the danger of every man's imagination becoming the word of God.

 

[Willie T]

I keep hearing this "pat" expression... Cheap Salvation. What is that? Are you somehow under the impression you have to pay for your salvation?

Last I checked, Salvation was absolutely free, and that's a pretty inexpensive (cheap) price. Especially when you don't have to pay it... and that was how it was designed... so that you not only did not have to pay the price, but you COULD NOT, no matter how hard you tried.

To me, the only way to make Salvation "cheap" is to put a price tag on it, and then endeavor to pay that price with our worthlessness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I keep hearing this "pat" expression... Cheap Salvation. What is that? Are you somehow under the impression you have to pay for your salvation?

Last I checked, salvation was absolutely free, and that's a pretty inexpensive (cheap) price. Especially when you don't have to pay it... and that was how it was designed... so that you not only did not have to pay the price, but you COULD NOT, no matter how hard you tried.

To me, the only was to make Salvation "cheap" is to put a price tag on it, and then endeavor to pay that price with our worthlessness.

See? You can only hear what I said to mean 'works salvation'. (I personally don't use the phrase 'cheap grace').

I have brain surgeries stacking up, so I'm about to scoot, so let's talk about this later today as time permits.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

See? You can only hear what I said to mean 'works salvation'. (I personally don't use the phrase 'cheap grace').

I have brain surgeries stacking up, so I'm about to scoot, so let's talk about this later today as time permits.

Oh great, now you have someone else to argue with.

 

[Willie T]

See? You can only hear what I said to mean 'works salvation'. (I personally don't use the phrase 'cheap grace').

I have brain surgeries stacking up, so I'm about to scoot, so let's talk about this later today as time permits.

Uh....if you don't use this expression, then why answer for those that do? That was who the question was directed to.

 

[Deborah13]

You, sister, are so very wrong. OSAS has inundated the Protestant Church. Thinking that your salvation is completely and totally disconnected from what you do has swept the church. For so many it's all about what you think and believe. Right now many are hearing what I'm saying as 'you are saved by your works'. The indoctrination is so strong that many can not hear how that is not a doctrine of works salvation even when you calmly explain it to them.

All I can say about that is that my ears hear something very different than your ears hear.
My ears hear, you are saved by the grace and mercy of God, now go use that gift you have been given to love others as Christ loves you. Spread His grace around to the dying, the poor, to support men of God ministering the Word. I hear that if you will trust that God has given you abundant grace then you have abundant grace to give. If you will trust that God has given you His abundant grace then you no longer need to live with addictions, hatred, unforgiveness, sin of any kind, etc.
I cannot get rid of sin in me but He can and all I have to do is be willingly to let Him do that.
I cannot change a person's heart but He can if they are willingly to let Him do that.
That is some of what I hear is being preached now a days.
David Stewart, accused Andrew Wommack of Not being a grace preacher because he actually said that when people decide to receive Christ as their LORD and Redeemer they need to be willing to allow Him to change them. :shock To not resist the Lord, how dare he say such a thing!
Sometimes He beats them repeatedly on the head, though stiff necked people, to get His point across but it is because He loves us, His children.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Uh....if you don't use this expression, then why answer for those that do? That was who the question was directed to.

Because I know what is meant by the phrase.

 

[Deborah13]

Uh....if you don't use this expression, then why answer for those that do? That was who the question was directed to.

Willie, I used that expression because that is the what is used now a days by many who believe that when one says "by His grace I was saved and by His grace I will be who He wants me to be," that they are promoting a 'cheap grace', that says 'say some words and you are free to go live like hell'.
Cheap grace = lawlessness. That is what THEY call it, it is their slang term for a lawlessness living gospel.
But then I'm sure that the intelligent and aware person that you are already knows all this.
Jethro, has never used that term, but he is fulling convinced that is what the Protestant church's grace message does say. He also seems to believe that all the Protestant Reformed doctrines are of a Calvinist type? Wow, this very subject has been under debate since the Reformation began. "Can one loose their salvation?"