Bible Study Once saved always saved?

[Asaph]

Well, according to the poll, half the Christians here think Jesus is lying when he said, "No one can snatch them out of my hand." They also must believe that Paul is lying when he said in Romans 8: 48, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ jesus our Lord. "

They also must think Paul is lying when he said; "You however, are not controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit if the Spirit of God lives in you."

The bible holds no contradictions. If someone has an interpretation that contradicts any scripture, it is a false one pure and simply. But...if some people think their salvation depends on them instead of Christ's death, they're up a creek without a paddle because none of us can be perfect enough to save ourselves. I feel sorry for them.

Amen and amen. But you wound or threaten their pride when you say things so clearly true. Hmmmm...........then again, Jesus had much the same effect didn't He?...LOL

 

[AVBunyan]

It seems that those OSAS supporters are negating the mess they created. How convenient.

You mean OSAS folks like CH Spurgeon, John Bunyan, George Whitfield, Thomas Watson, John Owen, Charles Wesley, J F Norris, Thomas Boston, Calvin, JC Ryle, Jonathan Edwards, the most fruitful missionaries, and others like them have made a mess? You mean teh greatest evangelists, missionaries and writers have made a mess?

How about all your fake healers, PTL, Shulers, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggarts, Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen? You mean this crowd of "lose its' have brought stability into this world? :o

Your thinking is nuts.

God bless 8-)

 

[Heidi]

Well, according to the poll, half the Christians here think Jesus is lying when he said, "No one can snatch them out of my hand." They also must believe that Paul is lying when he said in Romans 8: 48, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ jesus our Lord. "

They also must think Paul is lying when he said; "You however, are not controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit if the Spirit of God lives in you."

The bible holds no contradictions. If someone has an interpretation that contradicts any scripture, it is a false one pure and simply. But...if some people think their salvation depends on them instead of Christ's death, they're up a creek without a paddle because none of us can be perfect enough to save ourselves. I feel sorry for them.

There is only 28 people. I believe majority believes OSAS. I can tell by their fruit of Christianity. I have been watching carefuly Christians over 30 years. Most of them don't seems to care about what they do. It seems that they are saves already. They don't have to worry about following His teaching.

Heidi I feel sorry for you. You don't seem to feel bad about your other believers ungrateful christianity. That's the OSAS believers postition. It does not bother their co-believers christianity.

Why do you feel sorry for me? I have faith! I have faith in Christ's words that "no one can snatch hem out of my hand." I do not doubt him or call him a liar.

Sorry, but Jesus said that few will enter heaven and that many who call him Lord will not. The true Christians are ruled by the Holy Spirit as Paul tells us. The Holy Spirit is not some useless power that does nothing and is easily overcome by the devil. The Holy Spirit has victory over the devil in all those he inhabits. It is they who produce fruit, not those who call themselves Christians but don't have the indwelling Holy Spirit and there are millions of them. Just look at church doctrine to see which churches do not endorse the indwelling Holy Spirit and you will find millions of people who call themselves Christians in those churches who have no clue if they've been born again. Since they doubt their salvation, then others should also. "By their fruits you will recognize them." Those who produce good fruit do so by the power of the Holy Spirit. Those who do not are not ruled by the Spirit. It's that simple.

 

[Heidi]

And feeling sorry for those who doubt their salvation is feeling for them, gingercat. I feel sorry for them because Jesus can't die again for them. He already did it once and they have not accepted his sacrifice for their sins. So they have no more hope.

 

[Geo]

I slowly get tired with the position where I would have to defend that
some people will depart from Jesus, which is not my intention, let them
work it out themselves when they regain a sound mind.

For what reason I declare that Jesus's view of the 7 churches is reality, not
our perception I have no idea, I must have been nuts. Of course "nobody can
be really dead" based on our understanding, mainly because some still have
a doctrine that says that it can not be so.

Sorry for any warnings that might have occured, please continue
to negotiate based on your understanding, that includes departing parties
that will be held against their will. 'Cut off branches' and 'dead' is based on
willful decisions, nobody is held hostage against their will, please read
ALL of the NT, not only the parts that concern you. Start with Matthew and
count how many times he mentions the term 'gnashing of teeth' and why.

 

[cj]

I slowly get tired with the position where I would have to defend that some people will depart from Jesus,..

This is becaues you don't do so out of the never-ending supply of the power of Jesus.

By your own admitance you take a stand that is outside of Christ.

which is not my intention, let them work it out themselves when they regain a sound mind.

Says the sinner to the sinner.

For what reason I declare that Jesus's view of the 7 churches is reality, not our perception I have no idea, I must have been nuts. Of course "nobody can be really dead" based on our understanding, mainly because some still have a doctrine that says that it can not be so. Sorry for any warnings that might have occured, please continue to negotiate based on your understanding, that includes departing parties that will be held against their will. 'Cut off branches' and 'dead' is based on willful decisions, nobody is held hostage against their will, please read ALL of the NT, not only the parts that concern you. Start with Matthew and count how many times he mentions the term 'gnashing of teeth' and why.

Foolish one,..... if you are yet to be perfected how can you have what amounts to a perfect will?


With your own words you expose the silliness of your false doctrine.


Tell me, what is the result of losing your reward?


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Fruit will not lie. That's why the Bible is warning us to look for the fruit which you always avoid to talk about.

Fruit might not lie,..... but how would a blind man know regarding the truth of what he was looking at?


Honestly Gingercat, you are yet to say anything of much consequence.


In love,
cj

 

[Geo]

Bro Jim has similar language like you cj but a better understanding:

Lucifer went into rebellion because of self-righteousness and vanity. He knew what God said. And us men, just like in the garden, think God doesn't really mean that. God does mean EXACTLY what He said. He can NOT lie. When you set your own values, your own beliefs, doubting the word of God, and doing what YOU WANT, that is rebellion. That is not Faith.

What is Grace? There is a false teaching of grace in the church all around the world. Grace is simple to understand. Grace is time given while you are living in the body to conform yourself to the word of God. The bible says that if you judge yourself, He won't judge you. But if you fail to judge yourself, when the spirit is in the body, He will judge you. GRACE is God’s gift to be able to change when confronted with the truth. Grace is the empowerment by the Spirit of Truth to correctly respond to the truth. The power to conform yourself to the word of God. THY WILL - NOT MY WILL! But if you don't judge yourself, He will judge you. Today He is the Lamb. But when your spirit leaves He is the Judge and GRACE IS OVER! Make no mistake about that!

There is a false theology running all over the churches that we can continue to rebel and it is OK. That is a LIE right out of the pit of hell. It is nonsense what is being taught today about grace. You give me a gift and I can throw it right back at you. You and I are not robots. Lucifer had the gift of faith and he threw it back in God's face and went into rebellion. We may get the gift of salvation. We may get the gift of saving faith, but like Lucifer we can throw it back in God's face if we walk in rebellion. And we will then end up spending eternity in hell with Lucifer.

For osas teachers: http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/osas.htm

 

[AVBunyan]

I believe they follow OSAS theology too. I believe you are abusing their theology for your tactics. You're not teaching or conveying correctly. Whatever this theology did, it is not of God. Fruit will not lie. That's why the Bible is warning us to look for the fruit which you always avoid to talk about.

You say the above because:

1. You are ignorant of justficaiton truths - you are blinded according to II Cor. 4:3 and I Cor. 2:14

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2. You are ignorant of true Christian History - and because of your ignorance of #1 then you will pervert Chrisitan History.

 

[Heidi]

Gingercat,

All those who know their Lord personally know they cannot be snatched out of his hand because once you meet someone, you can never then deny he exists. Once someone saves your life, you always know that he saved your life. That knowledge can never be taken away from you...unless of course, you never gave him credit for saving your life in the first place. :wink: So again, you need to remember that Jesus can't die again for your sins. He already did it once and if you don't accept his sacrifice, there is no more hope for you.

 

[Windozer]

Grace is time given while you are living in the body to conform yourself to the word of God.

Acts 15 NIV

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Tell me if we are saved just as we are. Why would I need to conform myself to the word of God. According to that scripture your statement appears to be a LIE right out of the pit of hell.

Why according to Acts 18:27 NIV. it even appears that we need grace to believe.

When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

Why would I need to conform to the word of God when I am justified by Grace?

Romans 3:24 NIV.

and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Why even righteousness is a gift.

Romans 5:17 NIV.

For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Tell me just what would conforming to the word of God do for me? Being that I am already saved by Grace.

Ephesians 2:5 NIV

made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsâ€â€it is by grace you have been saved.

I am asking what is the benefit of conforming to the word of God?

It would appear (according to scripture) that it is you who has some conforming to do.

 

[Heidi]

Grace is time given while you are living in the body to conform yourself to the word of God.

Acts 15 NIV

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Tell me if we are saved just as we are. Why would I need to conform myself to the word of God. According to that scripture your statement appears to be a LIE right out of the pit of hell.

Why according to Acts 18:27 NIV. it even appears that we need grace to believe.

[quote:a6ce7]When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

Why would I need to conform to the word of God when I am justified by Grace?

Romans 3:24 NIV.

and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Why even righteousness is a gift.

Romans 5:17 NIV.

For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Tell me just what would conforming to the word of God do for me? Being that I am already saved by Grace.

Ephesians 2:5 NIV

made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsâ€â€it is by grace you have been saved.

I am asking what is the benefit of conforming to the word of God?

It would appear (according to scripture) that it is you who has some conforming to do.[/quote:a6ce7]

Grace is simply God's free gift, no strings, which makes his love unconditional.

Romans 10: 5-6, "So too, at the present time, there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."

Those who believe it will spend their lives thanking God for it which is what good works are; the fruits of the Spirit. So those who concentrate on their works are working to gain honor for themselves, not for God. Otherwise, they would do good works with the left hand without the right hand knowing it.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Hey Michael, how about we discuss the topic of holiness and is it possible in the life of a believer?

Michael,

I started a thread in the General Talk section that deals with holiness.

I hope that you and all of our other Christian friends who are talking about OSAS will stop by there and give their thoughts.

:D

 

[JM]

The more I think on it, the more I have to question (not declare as unsaved) the salvation of those who deny eternal security. It's almost as if they doubt Christ's work on the Cross, which is where we believers find our hope for salvation (by the blood of Christ in 1 Pet. 1:2, salvation by mercy in 1 Peter 1:3, the new birth in 1 Peter 1:3, eternal security 1 Pet. 1:3-4)

Peace

 

[AVBunyan]

The more I think on it, the more I have to question (not declare as unsaved) the salvation of those who deny eternal security. It's almost as if they doubt Christ's work on the Cross, which is where we believers find our hope for salvation (by the blood of Christ in 1 Pet. 1:2, salvation by mercy in 1 Peter 1:3, the new birth in 1 Peter 1:3, eternal security 1 Pet. 1:3-4)

Peace

Nicely put JM and thanks - I'm meaner than you JM - I'm at the point of declaring. I've always said it is possible that one can get saved and messed up in false doctrine but if they defend this firmly then I declare they are still lost.

You know I've been saying this for months on this forum and I'm glad someone else sees this also. They just don't doubt - they don't believe Christ's shed blood was sufficient - they are putting thier trust in their repentance and other things but they cannot see Calvary.

God bless

 

[Geo]

still cannot see both positions AND understand both?
only Jesus can enable, you need a miracle of love.

JM and AVBunyan: You both 'heard about' Calvary,
now go and live it.

Matthew 24:13 - But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[AVBunyan]

still cannot see both positions AND understand both?
only Jesus can enable, you need a miracle of love.

JM and AVBunyan: You both 'heard about' Calvary,
now go and live it.

Matthew 24:13 - But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

How do you know we are not? :-?

 

[Heidi]

The more I think on it, the more I have to question (not declare as unsaved) the salvation of those who deny eternal security. It's almost as if they doubt Christ's work on the Cross, which is where we believers find our hope for salvation (by the blood of Christ in 1 Pet. 1:2, salvation by mercy in 1 Peter 1:3, the new birth in 1 Peter 1:3, eternal security 1 Pet. 1:3-4)

Peace

Amen. Of course we should doubt their salvation if they doubt it! Doubt is the opposite of faith. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit and doubt comes from the devil. We are ruled by one or the other.

 

[Geo]

Babes in Christ, you better change your attitude, nothing you say
will make us doubt our salvation, what we have and you don't, is the
holy fear of God just as Paul did:

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

"might attain" "not as though I had already attained,
either were already perfect"

when you understand this position, get into it, and off the lofty heights
that accuses believers that reject sin.

FOR SIN *IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

It took me years to fully understand this, now it breaks my heart to
realize that most christians also still not understand it, and factually deny it.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

HOW by what perversion of the truth can anyone claim to have His spirit of
fulfillment yet deny his power, and perverting it by acting against it?

And then stand on top of it all and boldly say: "I cannot sin" because sin is
already dealt with, repentence would be like crucifying christ again.

Satan found a way to "legalize sin" in christians and many will not wake up
to this reality. In fact they turn around and say it's a lie out of the pit of hell.
It "must be a lie" because otherwise they would need to repent and be saved.

I cry for this wicked generation.

 

[homewardbound]

Of course we should doubt their salvation if they doubt it! Doubt is the opposite of faith. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit and doubt comes from the devil. We are ruled by one or the other.

No one should be making any sort of declaration about the status of another person's salvation. Where's the love in that?

I don't subscribe to OSAS, but I don't doubt my salvation for a second.