One result of being in union with Christ

[chessman]

Apparently, some Bibles don't have any of the many verses that say you can definitely loose your salvation.

"0 Bible results for “Loose your salvation”"

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...SV;ESV;KJV;NASB;NKJV&searchtype=all&bookset=2

Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding.

 

[JLB]

"0 Bible results for “Loose your salvation”"

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...SV;ESV;KJV;NASB;NKJV&searchtype=all&bookset=2

Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding.

How about this simple concept?

• Will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7



The saints, the Church, the people of God are warned about practicing the works of the flesh, lest we partake of the wrath of God along with the unsaved children of disobedience.



JLB

 

[chessman]

How about this simple concept?

• Will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The fleshly works/desires that prohibt inheritance have now been crucified in those that belong to Christ. Excellent point! That IS the "result of being in union with Christ"!

Galatians 5:16, 24 (LEB) But I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never carry out the desire of the flesh.
...
Now those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh together with its feelings and its desires.​

 

[JLB]

The fleshly works/desires that prohibt inheritance have now been crucified in those that belong to Christ. Excellent point! That IS the "result of being in union with Christ"!

Galatians 5:16, 24 (LEB) But I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never carry out the desire of the flesh.
...
Now those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh together with its feelings and its desires.​

Only those who walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh have the lustful desires of the flesh crucified.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Those who sow or invest themselves toward the Spirit, expressing the righteous life within, where Christ dwells, will reap life everlasting.

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Galatians 6:7-10

Those who sow to the flesh, to walk according to the flesh, will reap eternal damnation.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He's the one that intercedes for us, remember???

Romans 8:34, 38 (LEB) Who is the one who condemns? Christ is the one who died, and more than that, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

That intercession is accessed by faith (Romans 5:2 NASB). If you stop believing, Christ's ministry--which must continue in heaven for a person (Hebrews 7:25 NASB)--can no longer be accessed by you, and, thus, no longer continues for that person.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Apparently, some Bibles don't have any of the many verses that say you can definitely loose your salvation.
The verses are there; they're just invisible to elect people who are predestined to be blind to the truth.

It's funny that I was thinking this exact thing just before I read this.

I'm convinced that thinking grace makes it so one can languish in unbelief and unrepentant sin and you are still saved, and then doing that, and/or teaching others they can do that, is damnable (Hebrews 10:26 NASB, Matthew 18:6 NASB, 1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB).

I also think the most probable reason for someone adopting such a doctrine is the unrepentant sin that person is living in (John 3:20 NASB). But also, they may adopt it because that message sells. Hyper-grace/ free grace doctrine is the 'have your cake and eat it too' ear tickling doctrine of these end times.

 

[FreeGrace]

Since you have posted any such scripture about the seal of the Spirit, your objection is irrelevant, as is your theory.

Actually, I have "posted any such Scripture about the seal (ing) of the (Holy) Spirit". I cannot help those who don't read my posts.

Eph 1;13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit is a seal "who is a deposit" which "guarantees our inheritance". For whom? "those who are God's possession".

If that isn't clear enough, Paul added this in Eph 4:30 -
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

So, this GUARANTEE is "for the day of redemption". And Paul added NO EXCEPTIONS or CONDITIONS whereby this seal is broken, removed, or in any way rendered ineffective.

The ONUS is on those who claim salvation can be lost to provide any verses that plainly tell us any conditions whereby this sealing of the Holy Spirit can be removed, revoked, broken, or rendered ineffective.

To date, this has NOT BEEN DONE.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2JLB

Since this passage is about fruit production, and NOT about "how to stay saved" or "how to lose salvation", providing any verse from this passage is irrelevant to the discussion.

No one has provided ANY exegesis to show that the passage is NOT about fruit production, and IS about "how to stay saved" or "how to lose salvation".

Just quoting verses without exegesis is fruitless in trying to prove a point.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Since I've always explained what verses mean or teach,"

You have repeatedly mangled those verses in a clumsy attempt to force them to say what they very clearly do NOT say.

When did anyone EVER prove that I "repeatedly mangled those verses". While my explanations have been rejected, that proves nothing. Where is the exegesis of the verses I posted to prove that I so-called "mangled" any of them?

Charges/claims without a shred of evidence are just empty ones.

You have memorized the canned responses which those who adhere to your particular Theology are trained to spout like one of Pavlov's dogs. That is not "explaining" anything. It's the technique that heretical groups use to keep people from thinking.

If your empty claim were true, it would be extremely easy to use the truth of Scripture to refute my claims.

But the exact opposite has occurred. I've refuted the views of conditional security with clear verses that teach eternal security. Whether they're disagreed with or rejected is of no concern to me.

 

[FreeGrace]

JLB said: ↑
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding. iakov the fool

I've definitely noticed that among those who teach conditional security.

 

[FreeGrace]

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• If you think partaking of the wrath of God means salvation, then it is obvious why you can't understand.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8JLB

I've already explained these verses. If there is disagreement, please provide evidence for such disagreement. Simply re-quoting verses does nothing for advancing the discussion.

How about some actual exegesis to prove your claims.

 

[chessman]

If you stop believing, Christ's ministry--which must continue in heaven for a person (Hebrews 7:25 NASB)--can no longer be accessed and, thus, no longer continues for that person.

Heb 7:25 does NOT say anything about "stop believing". What is stated is that His sacrifice "always lives in order to intercede". Yes, on the behalf of those that draw near. Yes, to those that draw near through Him.

In other words 'saved completely'.

Hebrews 7:24-27 (LEB) but he, because he continues forever, holds the priesthood permanently. Therefore also he is able to save completely those who draw near to God through him, because he always lives in order to intercede on their behalf. For a high priest such as this indeed is fitting for us, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and having become exalted above the heavens, who does not need every day like the former high priests to offer up sacrifices for his own sins and then for the sins of the people, because he did this once for all when he offered up himself.​

Indeed it is fitting that He saves completely those whom He saves.

It's no coincidence that we find: "0 Bible results for “Stop believing.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...p+believing+&qs_version=ASV;ESV;KJV;NASB;NKJV

 

[FreeGrace]

"0 Bible results for “Loose your salvation”"

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...SV;ESV;KJV;NASB;NKJV&searchtype=all&bookset=2

Unfortunately, that very simple concept is impossible to understand if one is thoroughly dedicated to not understanding.

Exactly!

 

[FreeGrace]

That intercession is accessed by faith (Romans 5:2 NASB). If you stop believing, Christ's ministry--which must continue in heaven for a person (Hebrews 7:25 NASB)--can no longer be accessed by you, and, thus, no longer continues for that person.

Please provide any verse that makes continual faith a condition for salvation. And I'll refute that notion from the aorist tense.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's funny that I was thinking this exact thing just before I read this.

I'm convinced that thinking grace makes it so one can languish in unbelief and unrepentant sin and you are still saved, and then doing that, and/or teaching others they can do that, is damnable (Hebrews 10:26 NASB, Matthew 18:6 NASB, 1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB).

I also think the most probable reason for someone adopting such a doctrine is the unrepentant sin that person is living in (John 3:20 NASB). But also, they may adopt it because that message sells. Hyper-grace/ free grace doctrine is the 'have your cake and eat it too' ear tickling doctrine of these end times.

Such a post only reveals a significant lack of comprehension of what grace even means.

 

[reba]

Col_1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Papa Zoom]

eternal security discussions: always so uplifting and encouraging.

Don't think about it. Don't argue over it. Just follow Jesus. How about that? God is for us. How about focus on living the life worthy of our calling encouraging one another unto good works?

Frankly I don't care what anyone thinks about the eternal security question. It's pointless IMO. There, I said it.

 

[reba]

Mat_5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

A few of the reasons i do not take a side in this circle battle

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Holy Spirit is a seal "who is a deposit" which "guarantees our inheritance". For whom? "those who are God's possession".

And who are those who are God's possession? Believers, of course. Not former believers who now deny Christ and who have lost access to the efficacy of Christ's continuing ministry in heaven because they no longer believe in it (Hebrews 7:25 NASB, Hebrews 10:26 NASB, Romans 5:1-2 NIV).

The promises are for those who presently believe. They do not apply to Christ denying ex-believers. What the present believer most assuredly has in this very moment is secure and can not be taken away from them because of their faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Mat_5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

A few of the reasons i do not take a side in this circle battle

Note that non-OSAS do not nullify or contradict the passages used to defend OSAS.
But passages interpreted as OSAS nullify the plain non-OSAS passages.
Check it out.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

eternal security discussions: always so uplifting and encouraging.

Don't think about it. Don't argue over it. Just follow Jesus. How about that? God is for us. How about focus on living the life worthy of our calling encouraging one another unto good works?

Frankly I don't care what anyone thinks about the eternal security question. It's pointless IMO. There, I said it.

Did you know hyper-grace/ free grace OSAS says you can go back to your unbelief and you are still saved?
Causing believers to stumble and become unbelievers and return to their old lives, thinking they are still safe with God, is not a light matter with God:

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB)

Causing someone who believes in Christ (vs.6) to stumble so as to go to the eternal fire (vs.8) is a very, very serious matter with God.
Still think it's a pointless discussion?