Bible Study Only 2 Churches ...in the World Today

[Merry Menagerie]

No church? I'm sorry but those who do not belong to a denomination still belong to a church. It's called the church of Christ! And it's the biblical one.

No order? Well since God is the head of this church then why don't we allow God to worry about 'order' and leave 'men' out of it shall we?

No evelasting gospel? Well if it's the Gospel of Jesus Christ you are talking about then it is, in fact, evelasting. And it's the one that I believe in and preach.

But hey, if you want to believe that organisational churches that are run by power hungry men who exalt themselves above God as the real church...then go right ahead

 

[John the Baptist]

Please understand that it is the message that I am going to address! Nothing personal. Just look at it as being debated in heaven long before we were! :wink:
*******

No church? I'm sorry but those who do not belong to a denomination still belong to a church. It's called the church of Christ! And it's the biblical one.

John again: The above is not the Everlasting Gospel Truth of Revelation 14:6. This Truth gives a church on earth, that has Christ inside her, and is living His doctrines as having the keys to His heavenly fold. See Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 15-18. These verses are Christ's Inspired Words, EVERLASTING GOSPEL!

Even in Acts 9:6 Christ did not give order's to Saul (Paul) Himself, or even heal Saul of his blindness, but sent him to the church to be healed & baptised, thereby being added to the heavenly fold as well!

Because there are the Revelation 17:1-5 ones being the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH, that does not do away with the one true set of doctrines in the one True Virgin Fold. See Ephesians 4:5 (ONE FOLD) and Christ in John 10:16 or Revelation 18:4 with a 'eternal' life or death decision to be made, COME WHERE?? Even this true doctrinal fold can and did become DESOLATE OF CHRIST, (see Mathew 23:38 & Revelation 3:9) and be given up! See Revelation 2:5. (REJECTED!) Yet, this still does not do away with Christ's church on earth as His organized True Doctrinal Fold! He would just start up another. And FINALLY??? He said that He would have EVERLASTING GOSPEL ORDER!! :fadein: John 17:14-22!!!

No order? Well since God is the head of this church then why don't we allow God to worry about 'order' and leave 'men' out of it shall we?

No evelasting gospel? Well if it's the Gospel of Jesus Christ you are talking about then it is, in fact, evelasting. And it's the one that I believe in and preach.

But hey, if you want to believe that organisational churches that are run by power hungry men who exalt themselves above God as the real church...then go right ahead

And the above?? You know what Revelation 17:1-5 teaches, as I do. But because this is the Truth, as well as for other reasons, it still is no reason not to follow Christ's ETERNAL GOSPEL & COVENANT CONDITIONS!! How would that make us any different than Cain in Genesis 4:7, or even the first rebellion in heaven by satan himself???
Are you saying that 'we' cannot have Christ eternal doctrines in UNITY???

You know, NO ETERNAL COVENANT equals NO LAW OR ORDER. We just follow Christ, at least say that we do.

And again: It is just the old, old message that I am replying to, that was given long before we came on the scene!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I still stand by what I said. Christ is the head of the church and the church is a living breathing organism. I am part of the body when I'm at home and when I meet up with other christians. I just don't meet with others in an organisational religious denomination.

 

[John the Baptist]

I still stand by what I said. Christ is the head of the church and the church is a living breathing organism. I am part of the body when I'm at home and when I meet up with other christians. I just don't meet with others in an organisational religious denomination.

******
Hi, I do not mean to sound like that I am a conscience for anyone! What the Bible teaches as I see it is, is a doctrinal FOLD with True Everlasting teachings. Do they meet together? That depends on who you are meeting with!

True doctrines bring the devil inside if he has the door un/bolted. In other words, any fold is required to have Christ first, (and His 'key' Doctrines) and then His True Doctrines. Now, inside we see wheat & tares growing together, as the Great teacher tells us. We can not do anything about this.
For we cannot read ones motives or heart.

Then there comes along the devil & his helpers (Genesis 4:7) with OPEN sin. This is what the FOLD must deal with. If not? Then Christ will in time, Leave for good. For ALL THE CHURCH become PARTAKERS of the sin. (any open known sin) See Revelation 18:4

Only twice had Christ had a true total Virgin Fold. Israel was not rejected until Matthew 23:38. Daniel tells us "In the Midst of the week". (7 years)

But here is what you could be saying, I don't know?? Yet, they still were members of the True Doctrinal Folds teaching as was John the Baptist! Notice here in Jeremiah 15:15-21. Read it carefully! This was the Lord's Israel that is being discussed. (His OWN!) This is where the prophet Jeremiah was sent!!
How can one tell who is vile between the wheat & the tares? They cannot tell in the wheat or tares! So these ones are as today. These ones are OPEN SINNERS as seen in Matthew 23:3

Notice 1 John 3:4 telling us what we are to always be on guard for. (and the forums are also full of them)
"Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the law, for sin is the trangression of the law."

Now notice your remarks thought in verse 17-20!! (Jeremiah 15:17-20)
*I like the King James! :fadein: I don't ever know what this translation on this forum will bring up? :wink: (no complaints though!)

Yet, there is a Hebrews 10:23-26 that is Virgin Truth!
---John

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Organisational institutions is not what the bible described as 'church'. There is not organisation on this planet that preaches the full gospel truth. Therefore I have and always will rely in Christ being my shepherd and myself being part of the body of Christ. When I meet with others we are there in his name and he is there amongst us.

http://www.loveofchrist.info/church/non ... ional.html

 

[John the Baptist]

Organisational institutions is not what the bible described as 'church'. There is not organisation on this planet that preaches the full gospel truth. Therefore I have and always will rely in Christ being my shepherd and myself being part of the body of Christ. When I meet with others we are there in his name and he is there amongst us.

http://www.loveofchrist.info/church/non ... ional.html

******
Are you though? We had best DO as the WORD COMMANDS, 'IF' we love Him, of course. Acts 5:32
Is it as others teach, Lord I love you, but!!!???

It is interesting how 'folks' reject the old testament & then use it for their 'desires'. (see Genesis 4:7) Then we see the above site with man's stuff for knowing the Truth! : Yes Lord, these men have the 1/2 Gospel at best, but no one has it all! (you say? :o )
Whatever? It is you DECISION that has been made.

---John

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Most certainly! And the church that I'm a part of is perfect because Christ is the head. Therefore I fully rely on him and not a man-made institution. I love him too much to not allow myself to be indoctrinated and bound by the bonds of man. And I can tell you in no uncertain terms that God has met me where I'm at and his Grace is sufficient for me.

The man-made organisational institutions we call 'church' are NOT represented in the bible!! Therefore I have concluded that they cannot be totally what God had in mind for his body.

 

[John the Baptist]

Most certainly! And the church that I'm a part of is perfect because Christ is the head. Therefore I fully rely on him and not a man-made institution. I love him too much to not allow myself to be indoctrinated and bound by the bonds of man. And I can tell you in no uncertain terms that God has met me where I'm at and his Grace is sufficient for me.

The man-made organisational institutions we call 'church' are NOT represented in the bible!! Therefore I have concluded that they cannot be totally what God had in mind for his body.

******
Man made Church??? And I am following Christ.
Acts 9:1-8. Just suppose that Saul (Paul) posted your remarks to Christ below.

1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

John here: Saul professed to be following God, right?

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Me again: Saul was under conviction kicking against the Holy Spirit. See the cautionary verse in Genesis 6:3.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Me again: Saul wielded his will to Christ! Take note that Christ could have just spoken the Word & Saul would have regained his sight! BUT: What did Christ do instead? He sent blind Saul to the CHURCH that He Himself had shortly before established. You do remember Matthew 17:19 & Matthew 18:17-18 huh? Bind on earth shall be bound in heaven! And what did Saul do?? (was it your message that he quoted to Christ?)

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Me again: NO! Acts 9:18 tell's us.. "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, AND AROSE, AND WAS BAPTISED."

 

[JM]

In the world of today, the Bible describes 2 churches:
#1.) Roman Catholic Church
#2.) Seventh Day Adventist church

All the other churches, fall into one or the other catagory.
There is no 3rd choice.

This is based on the Bible Principle, of Romans 6:16.......
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness ?"
Both claim to be Christian churches.

Yes, only two. One of works that lives under a law and one of faith that lives by faith in Christ Jesus. When Paul wrote, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Gal. 2:20 Because of Christ, I am a new creature (Gal. 6:15-16) set apart from the Law (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:8-10; 4:24; Col. 3:10) I'm lead by the Spirit to agree.

j

 

[John the Baptist]

In the world of today, the Bible describes 2 churches:
#1.) Roman Catholic Church
#2.) Seventh Day Adventist church

All the other churches, fall into one or the other catagory.
There is no 3rd choice.

This is based on the Bible Principle, of Romans 6:16.......
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness ?"
Both claim to be Christian churches.

Yes, only two. One of works that lives under a law and one of faith that lives by faith in Christ Jesus. When Paul wrote, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Gal. 2:20 Because of Christ, I am a new creature (Gal. 6:15-16) set apart from the Law (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:8-10; 4:24; Col. 3:10) I'm lead by the Spirit to agree.

j

**********
Hi, John here. Good to know that you are still around. :wink:

Anyway: Just what Laws do you document in the heavenly record books as finished??? (see Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 & Revelation 22:18-19) You do make exceptions, huh?

How can you say that??? 'set apart from the law' you say.
What law are you saying that, that is??? You best ask yourself if Hebrews 10:15-16 has passed you by!?

And 2 Corinthians 5:17 & Ephesians 6:15-16 does not even come across in a hint of saying this! And Ephesians 2:8-10?? Who is even suggesting that works save them??????

You sound like 2 Corinthians 4:2 to me.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I stand by what I said. I do not believe that man-made institutions is what God had in mind for his Church. People say they follow Christ yet I cant see that they do...rather they follow their 'organisation' and rely on it to keep them on the straight and narrow, rather than Christ. I was one of them and I didn't even realise how dependant I became to an organisation until I had to leave it and go out and somehow find my own way to Christ.

Thankfully, through the help of Jesus, I have finally found the only true church on the planet. This is THE CHURCH where God is the head, Jesus is the cornerstone and I am one of the members. Not only is it liberating but it's also very nice when you meet up and fellowship with other members of this CHURCH who are also not institutionalised.

 

[John the Baptist]

I stand by what I said. I do not believe that man-made institutions is what God had in mind for his Church. People say they follow Christ yet I cant see that they do...rather they follow their 'organisation' and rely on it to keep them on the straight and narrow, rather than Christ. I was one of them and I didn't even realise how dependant I became to an organisation until I had to leave it and go out and somehow find my own way to Christ.

Thankfully, through the help of Jesus, I have finally found the only true church on the planet. This is THE CHURCH where God is the head, Jesus is the cornerstone and I am one of the members. Not only is it liberating but it's also very nice when you meet up and fellowship with other members of this CHURCH who are also not institutionalised.

******
You have started up a New Fold, (organization) huh? One with no order or keys of the kingdom is the Everlasting Gospel??? And Christ is the head???
That is not the Christ of the Everlasting Gospel!
Revelation 14:6

How does your church differ from the order & organization of the first rebellion that started in heaven? He was & is the leader of today's loose cannon's 'fold' or church! And it grew & grew, from its start, into Genesis 4:7's antediluvian pre flood church, which God was grieved with & finally wiped away, :

Then we see the same leader on the scene again with just one leader, (Christ? Hardly) and again, a confessed disorganized Babylonian church. See Revelation 17:5! And this 'confusion' is following Christ's Everlasting Gospel??

---John
Whatever??? :o

 

[Jay T]

I belong to the Church of Christ..you know, the one where Christ is the cheif cornerstone and we are the members of the body? It's not called "The roman Catholic" church...nor is it called the 'Seventh day adventist" church. It's just called 'the church' and I'm a member of this church.

I havr a cousin who is a pastor of the church of Christ. I well remember the question I put to him when he annuonced that this is what he wanted to do in life.

I asked him if he felt called of God to become a pastor ?

He told me that No, He did not...feel called by God, that it was a job that had good security and easy hours.

I was stunned by his answer, and I was not even a Christian then !

Later when I became a Christian, I found out that 'MANY' pastors have a similar attitude....in that they will not upset the apple cart by correcting their errors, in what they teach, for fear of losing out on an easy job.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Wouldn't surprise me Jay T.

You have started up a New Fold, (organization) huh? One with no order or keys of the kingdom is the Everlasting Gospel??? And Christ is the head???
That is not the Christ of the Everlasting Gospel!

ROFL!!! Have I? I have not started anything. Christ is the one who started the church and he's the one who maintains it. I have only entered into HIS fold and not the fold of man.

Gosh I'm glad I'm not indoctrinated by man anymore!

 

[Vic C.]

...ROFL!!! Have I? I have not started anything. Christ is the one who started the church and he's the one who maintains it. I have only entered into HIS fold and not the fold of man.

Gosh I'm glad I'm not indoctrinated by man anymore!

Interesting, really. What is the statement of Faith of this assembly? Do you teach the accepted doctrines of mainstream Chriatianity or do search Scritpure for Biblical truths? Maybe one day you could start a thread where you could elaborate on some of what is taught in your congregation.

Peace,
Vic

 

[Merry Menagerie]

What are you talking about? IF you want to know what God's church is all about...read the bible and find out! It's all there! Right up to where it says that God is the head and Christ is the chief cornerstone. YOu are so caught up in your institutionalised church that you cannot see the freedom one can have IN CHRIST.

 

[Vic C.]

What are you talking about? IF you want to know what God's church is all about...read the bible and find out! It's all there! Right up to where it says that God is the head and Christ is the chief cornerstone. YOu are so caught up in your institutionalised church that you cannot see the freedom one can have IN CHRIST.

Are you talking to me? If you were, you completely misunderstood my motives for asking. :-?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

OH did I? So tell me...what did you mean?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Despite Merry Menagerie's assurances, Church of Christ is a denomination and has traditions. from a Church of Christ member on another forum:

even those of us in the Church of Christ have traditions--as much as we would like to think that we do not. Read Renewing God's People by CoC scholars Gary Holloway and Douglas Foster or Things Unseen by CoC scholar Leonard Allen to see how we have developed our own traditions and have just assumed that we were correct and biblical and everyone else was just blinded by their tradition and yet we were unable to see that we were blinded by our own traditions. Yet I am convinced that unity is possible even when we do not all agree--I think a great deal of unity can be built on our common allegiance to Christ as is suggested in The Jesus Proposal by Rubel Shelly and John York.

Here is a concise historical timeline of the CoC movement(s)
http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/who.html

I have no doubt that the members of the CoC have it in their hearts to be pure and purely devoted- but this triumphalism displayed by MM demands a reality check.

Problems in the CoC
http://www.disciples.org/ccu/documents/armour0801.htm

The CoC were born from a Restoration movement in the 19th century. They were conceived out of a certain set of presumptions regarding the primitive church and the interpretation of key passages. The CoC by and large ignores the reality of episcopal governance in the scriptures as well as in all of the 20 centuries of the Christian Church.

Allow me to sum: CoC is a Protestant denomination (denomination is a word with the Greek root onoma, which means name. CoC is a name). Though the desire for doctrinal simplicity and purity is commendable, their blatant denial of their history and their unwillingness to admit doctrinal presumptions makes my cult detector chirp.

 

[Vic C.]

OH did I? So tell me...what did you mean?

No problem. First, we need to clean the slate. Please understand I have no problems with you whatsoever. My questions were sincere and not meant to put you on the spot or question your beliefs.

You said:

"IF you want to know what God's church is all about...read the bible and find out!"

Take a good look around these forums. Many here say they read the Bible, yet we have all sorts of doctrines and verse interpretations. For instance... people here have several views on eschatology. All use Scripture to prove their beliefs. Most present valid arguments. All of believe what they believe because it's how they understand and interpret the Bible. Not not all of them can be right though, can they?

LOL, just take a look at some of MY posts. :-D I present some of the more off the wall ideas, *well, not nearly as many as Soma ;),* some of it to get people to think; some of it because I am honestly seeking Biblical Truth, not wanting to be spoonfed doctrines from the pulpit. I would hardy consider myself institutionalised.

Certifiable, maybe. :

Bottom line: I was only interested in reading what it is you believe, nothing more, nothing less. If you feel uncomfortable sharing that with us, that's fine too.

Peace,
Vic