Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[scorpia]

And neither is the Word of God just written in the pages of a book as some seem intent on confining it to. The word of God is alive and powerful . . . and dwells within me.

The scriptures were commanded by God to be written for the sole purpose of testifying to mankind that there is really God existing alive and real both in heavens and in earth so that whosoever will call on and come to this Almighty God after reading the said scriptures may find God and be in God's family.

 

[mutzrein]

The scriptures were commanded by God to be written for the sole purpose of testifying to mankind that there is really God existing alive and real both in heavens and in earth so that whosoever will call on and come to this Almighty God after reading the said scriptures may find God and be in God's family.

If it was commanded by God, what happened to the bits that you say are wrong?

 

[mutzrein]

The message

Say no more. I am not suprised though.

I categorise it the same as 'the clear book'. They are both paraphrases, both indicative of one person's view. They are not translations.

 

[Oscar3]

Say no more. I am not suprised though.

I categorise it the same as 'the clear book'. They are both paraphrases, both indicative of one person's view. They are not translations.

2 pet 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: New American Standard Bible

1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: The New King James Version

1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
The ESV

2Pe 1:1 Συμεὼν Πέτρος, δοῦλος καὶ ἀπόστολος ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ, τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσι πίστιν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος ᾿Ιησοῦ Χριστοῦ·

2Pe 1:1 | συμεων4826 N-PRI | σιμων4613 N-NSM | πετρος4074 N-NSM δουλος1401 N-NSM και2532 CONJ αποστολος652 N-NSM ιησου2424 N-GSM χριστου5547 N-GSM τοις3588 T-DPM ισοτιμον2472 A-ASF ημιν2254 P-1DP λαχουσιν2975 V-2AAP-DPM πιστιν4102 N-ASF εν1722 PREP δικαιοσυνη1343 N-DSF του3588 T-GSM θεου2316 N-GSM ημων2257 P-1GP και2532 CONJ σωτηρος4990 N-GSM | | ημων2257 P-1GP | ιησου2424 N-GSM χριστου5547 N-GSM


So Mutz
No matter how you try and cut and slice it, Jesus is God and your not saved.
I suggest you swallow your pride and become born again and aslk the Holy Spirit Who is also God to reveal himself to you and to open your eyes so you may see and be saved.

 

[Oscar3]

And neither is the Word of God just written in the pages of a book as some seem intent on confining it to. The word of God is alive and powerful . . . and dwells within me.[/quote]

I don't think so. You see it is the Holy Spirit who indwells the believer and since you do not believe the HS is God, how can he indwell you? :-?

 

[scorpia]

If it was commanded by God, what happened to the bits that you say are wrong?

They are still in that status until now.

 

[mutzrein]

So Mutz
No matter how you try and cut and slice it, Jesus is God and your not saved.
I suggest you swallow your pride and become born again and aslk the Holy Spirit Who is also God to reveal himself to you and to open your eyes so you may see and be saved.

That’s more like it Oscar. :wink:

I’ll tell you what has happened here. Many folks like yourself are predisposed to this doctrine. So when they read scripture, they look for passages that support it. And this is the trap that those who write paraphrases fall into. Because of this predisposition their paraphrase actually changes what is being said.

You see, when I read scripture I read it at face value, taking into account surrounding scripture, thus allowing it to be put in context.

Now you say that this passage says that Jesus (as one person) is both God and saviour. But does it really say that? The way that I read it, it is speaking of God as one person, and our saviour Jesus Christ as another.
Now you could argue that I am mistaken and the strategic positioning of a comma one way or the other is all that makes the difference.

OK, then let’s look at other scriptures close by. The very next verse says this: ‘Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord’. Now this verse clearly differentiates between the two.

Now lets go back to 1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Now I realize that verses like this create a bit of a dilemma for some folks and I respect that. There have been scriptures that I’ve had to wait on the Lord for, for understanding and I know there is yet more.

But I will tell you one thing that I know with absolute certainty. And that is that I am born of the spirit of God. There will always be people who cannot accept that righteousness comes by faith in Christ but I would warn any that would deny the Spirit of God that dwells within any another. They are not only judging the man by calling unclean, that which God has cleansed, but also denying the Spirit of God by which He has been granted life. And because of this they bring judgement on their own head.

 

[mutzrein]

They are still in that status until now.

I don't understand what you are saying. If God commanded scripture to be written, and the men that were commanded to do so, wrote it, where did the error come from?

 

[scorpia]

I don't understand what you are saying. If God commanded scripture to be written, and the men that were commanded to do so, wrote it, where did the error come from?

Errors come from those men who were comanded to by God to write the scripture. The Lord God Jesus Christ said that they (men who were commanded to by the Lord) themselves were not able to take in to their hearts some of the teachings of the Lord hence they omitted same and replaced them with their own.

 

[unred typo]

I find scorpia and you offensive because of your false teachings and lies of satan coming forth from you both. Other than that, you are probably swell folks. You do not understand being born again, so you aren't.

If I were born again, I wouldn’t tell you. That would be between me and the Lord and if you couldn’t tell that I was, I would just be bragging about something that was an embarrassment for him.

What I find offensive about you is your habit of not dealing with the topic and getting sidetracked onto some personal issue when you can‘t answer my post. How about getting back on track by actually answering what was the bulk of my reply and not just the comment at the end. Maybe I’ll learn not to add those comments eventually and you‘ll have to come up with your own material to distract from your lack of answers when challenged with the truth.

 

[Solo]

If I were born again, I wouldn’t tell you. That would be between me and the Lord and if you couldn’t tell that I was, I would just be bragging about something that was an embarrassment for him.

What I find offensive about you is your habit of not dealing with the topic and getting sidetracked onto some personal issue when you can‘t answer my post. How about getting back on track by actually answering what was the bulk of my reply and not just the comment at the end. Maybe I’ll learn not to add those comments eventually and you‘ll have to come up with your own material to distract from your lack of answers when challenged with the truth.

There is no need in my wasting my time giving spiritual insight into a topic with you until you are born again. The natural man does not understand the spiritual as it is foolishness to him. When you are born again, your fruits will manifest your posiiton in Christ Jesus. Until then you are just a child of the devil.

 

[unred typo]

There is no need in my wasting my time giving spiritual insight into a topic with you until you are born again. The natural man does not understand the spiritual as it is foolishness to him. When you are born again, your fruits will manifest your posiiton in Christ Jesus. Until then you are just a child of the devil.

Huh. Strange that the common people received Jesus’ word gladly, and Nicodemus was not born again, nor even knew what it meant when Jesus taught him about it. When was Zacchaeus born again? When he was trying to get a closer look at Jesus or when he gave half of his goods to the poor? Were the disciples born again when he taught them about the kingdom? Was Martha’s sister, Mary, born again? I don’t see how since the Holy Spirit was not even given until Pentecost. I don’t see Jesus saying, “Sorry, Mary, you are not born again so the spiritual things are foolishness to you. Pass the potatoes.†Of course, maybe Jesus didn’t have the spiritual insight some of us possess to discern the thoughts and intents of her heart.

I think you’re placing too much weight on the verse that says the natural man doesn’t receive the things of the Spirit of God because they are foolishness to him. The natural man here is the man who is only concerned about putting plenty of sumptuous food on his table, expensive clothing on his back, and fancy wheels under his butt who has no time for the things of God, except as a matter of religious pride and prestige. This is the man who finds the things of God to be foolishness. Meet them everyday. When Jesus said that you must be born again to enter the kingdom, he meant that before you can enter the heavenly city where God lives, you must be born of the Spirit.

 

[Oscar3]

OK, Lets see what maddness you are peddeling here. :-?

That’s more like it Oscar. :wink:

I’ll tell you what has happened here. Many folks like yourself are predisposed to this doctrine. So when they read scripture, they look for passages that support it. And this is the trap that those who write paraphrases fall into. Because of this predisposition their paraphrase actually changes what is being said..

I am guessing you are speaking of the paraphraze the message. While I agree it is nothing more than a commentary, it does back up the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB. They all say that Jesus is God.

You see, when I read scripture I read it at face value, taking into account surrounding scripture, thus allowing it to be put in context.

OK, Then what do you do with the passages that say plainly Jesus is God?

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Titus 2:12 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8 8 But to the Son He says:
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

John 20:28 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

2 pet 1:1 1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Now you say that this passage says that Jesus (as one person) is both God and saviour. But does it really say that? The way that I read it, it is speaking of God as one person, and our saviour Jesus Christ as another.
Now you could argue that I am mistaken and the strategic positioning of a comma one way or the other is all that makes the difference.

Perhaps if the scripture was based on only one passage, however, the bible from begiining to end teaches that Jesus is God as you can see by the scriptures above. Now this is also where the trinity comes in. Infact, to have faith in the trinity is the ''only'' way the bible makes sense.

OK, then let’s look at other scriptures close by. The very next verse says this: ‘Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord’. Now this verse clearly differentiates between the two.

True that. This is awsome ha. Paul is making a clear case for Jesus and God. God is the first person of the trinity and Jesus is the second person of the trinity. This makes perfect sense and this way there is no contridiction.

Now lets go back to 1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

OK, read my above quote as it fits in here perfectly. Another note; God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all have differant functions.

Now I realize that verses like this create a bit of a dilemma for some folks and I respect that. There have been scriptures that I’ve had to wait on the Lord for, for understanding and I know there is yet more.

Well, perhaps my rather abrasive way is getting though a little.

But I will tell you one thing that I know with absolute certainty. And that is that I am born of the spirit of God. There will always be people who cannot accept that righteousness comes by faith in Christ but I would warn any that would deny the Spirit of God that dwells within any another. They are not only judging the man by calling unclean, that which God has cleansed, but also denying the Spirit of God by which He has been granted life. And because of this they bring judgement on their own head.

Well, I disagree with you. I do not consider you to be a born again Christian.

How can you be when you do not believe that God resides in you. After all the Holy Spirit is God.

How can you be when only God can atone for sins? If Jesus is not God how can he atone for them. He would be no differant than a bull or a pair of doves and thus would only cover your sins but not abolish them.

I will also leave you with this scripture to ponder and pray about. Paul here addresses the glorias trinity with their respective purposes.
2 cor 13:10
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

[Oscar3]

If I were born again, I wouldn’t tell you. That would be between me and the Lord and if you couldn’t tell that I was, I would just be bragging about something that was an embarrassment for him.

It is good for you to aknowledge that you are not born again.
For the drug attick, its admiting he is a drug attick
for the alcoholic, its admiting he is a drunk,
for the pagan who thinks he is a bornagain christian is admiting he is not.

The next step is to surrender your life to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and accept his deity, repent of all your false teaching and be born again.

 

[unred typo]

The next step is to surrender your life to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and accept his deity, repent of all your false teaching and be born again.

Amen, Oscar. Why don’t you try that? Start with the Lordship of Jesus Christ. He has some specific orders for his servants, starting with the gospel of Matthew 5:1-7:29.

 

[Solo]

When Jesus said that you must be born again to enter the kingdom, he meant that before you can enter the heavenly city where God lives, you must be born of the Spirit.

Great, you have finally made a statement that you and I can agree with. Now if you could explain to me whether you believe that being born of the Spirit is a one time happening or does it occur off and on throughout a person's life?

Is being born of the Spirit the Spirit's doing or the doing of the one being born of the Spirit?

 

[unred typo]

Great, you have finally made a statement that you and I can agree with. Now if you could explain to me whether you believe that being born of the Spirit is a one time happening or does it occur off and on throughout a person's life?

Is being born of the Spirit the Spirit's doing or the doing of the one being born of the Spirit?

Solo, I have said this before and I’m not schizophrenic. You must be born of the Spirit to enter the gates of heaven. You enter the gates of heaven when you finish the course on earth, when your walk of faith is completed and God calls you home. IOW, when you die physically.

I don’t know how many times you can be born again, or what the expression, ‘born again’ really entails. I do know you do not become ‘born again’ by ‘asking Jesus into your heart’ as so many preachers falsely teach. You don’t ‘make a decision for Christ’ or ’a decision to accept Christ into your life’ and then sit back and proclaim yourself, ‘born again.’ You must surrender your will to his and I believe that if that is a complete, sincere and total commitment, God might cause you to be born of the Spirit. That is entirely his call. You can only offer your services and do his will to the best of your ability. Not to worry, you don’t get to be proud of this meager offering but realize that you are only an unprofitable servant, doing what is your duty to do.

Just like a marriage is not to be entered into lightly, this commitment is not to be taken trivially. You must be as dedicated to following Christ and walking in his ways as you would be entering the military service, or more so. When you join the Army, the Army owns you until your enlistment is up. The same is true of joining the service of the King of kings. He owns you, and he gives you your marching orders from the moment you wake up until the end of the day when your head hits your pillow, and then he still owns you while you’re sleeping. If he awakens you at 3 AM to write a letter or pray, you say, “Yes, Lord.†Is that perfectly clear?

Can you quit, go AWOL, desert or defect? Sure. You’re free to run but you can’t hide. Ask Jonah. And deserters and defectors get shot. The Lord seems to be more gracious than the Army and allows you a space to repent and return, but you may do some time in the brig. :o

Know you not that you are bought with a price and you are not your own?

 

[mutzrein]

OK, Lets see what maddness you are peddeling here. :-?

Well, I disagree with you. I do not consider you to be a born again Christian.

How can you be when you do not believe that God resides in you. After all the Holy Spirit is God.

How can you be when only God can atone for sins? If Jesus is not God how can he atone for them. He would be no differant than a bull or a pair of doves and thus would only cover your sins but not abolish them.

I will also leave you with this scripture to ponder and pray about. Paul here addresses the glorias trinity with their respective purposes.
2 cor 13:10
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Oscar

The passages of scripture that you have noted here have been dealt with, if not in this thread, then in others pertaining to the trinity and similar topics. Therefore I have no desire to regurgitate something that you will not or cannot accept.

As far as my relationship with the Lord is concerned, I recommend it would be wise to leave that in His hands. And since this discussion has led you to revile a servant of God in the manner that you have I leave you in His hands too.

Ed

 

[Solo]

Great, you have finally made a statement that you and I can agree with. Now if you could explain to me whether you believe that being born of the Spirit is a one time happening or does it occur off and on throughout a person's life?

Is being born of the Spirit the Spirit's doing or the doing of the one being born of the Spirit?

Solo, I have said this before and I’m not schizophrenic. You must be born of the Spirit to enter the gates of heaven. You enter the gates of heaven when you finish the course on earth, when your walk of faith is completed and God calls you home. IOW, when you die physically.

So is one born of the Spirit only after one dies and then is able to enter heaven if one has performed adequately on the earth obeying God almighty? And is being born of the Spirit the result of the Spirit's choice or man's choice?

I don’t know how many times you can be born again, or what the expression, ‘born again’ really entails.

Are you or have you ever been born again?

I do know you do not become ‘born again’ by ‘asking Jesus into your heart’ as so many preachers falsely teach. You don’t ‘make a decision for Christ’ or ’a decision to accept Christ into your life’ and then sit back and proclaim yourself, ‘born again.’

If you do not know what being born again entails, how can you say that this is not what being born again is?

You must surrender your will to his and I believe that if that is a complete, sincere and total commitment, God might cause you to be born of the Spirit. That is entirely his call. You can only offer your services and do his will to the best of your ability.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. After you surrender your will to God's will, and that that surrender is a complete, sincere, and total commitment, then God MIGHT cause you to be born of the Spirit. Is there any assurance of being born again? Is the action of being born of the Spirit occur after one surrenders one's will, and makes a complete, sincere, and total commitment to God? After you offer your services and do God's will to the best of your ability, does God then birth you into His family by the Spirit?

Not to worry, you don’t get to be proud of this meager offering but realize that you are only an unprofitable servant, doing what is your duty to do.

Is it proudful to claim being a child of God, a born again believer?

Just like a marriage is not to be entered into lightly, this commitment is not to be taken trivially. You must be as dedicated to following Christ and walking in his ways as you would be entering the military service, or more so. When you join the Army, the Army owns you until your enlistment is up. The same is true of joining the service of the King of kings. He owns you, and he gives you your marching orders from the moment you wake up until the end of the day when your head hits your pillow, and then he still owns you while you’re sleeping. If he awakens you at 3 AM to write a letter or pray, you say, “Yes, Lord.†Is that perfectly clear?

Does one join in serving Christ before being born of the Spirit? At what point is one born of the Spirit?
In using this analogy, when is the enlistment up with Christ when one enters His service?

Can you quit, go AWOL, desert or defect? Sure. You’re free to run but you can’t hide. Ask Jonah. And deserters and defectors get shot. The Lord seems to be more gracious than the Army and allows you a space to repent and return, but you may do some time in the brig.

Know you not that you are bought with a price and you are not your own?

It is interesting that you understand that believers are bought with a price. What does the following Scripture mean to you?

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12-14

 

[unred typo]

So is one born of the Spirit only after one dies and then is able to enter heaven if one has performed adequately on the earth obeying God almighty? And is being born of the Spirit the result of the Spirit's choice or man's choice?

I can see why you believe as you do. I said that BEFORE you can enter the actual heaven, you must be born again. You can be born again whenever God causes you to be born again, whether it‘s 50 years before you die or 2 minutes before you die or when you die, and that is up to God himself. That is entirely his call.

Try this reading experiment:
Rule: No one may go in the pool without a bathing cap.

Does that mean you have to put on the cap before you come into the gym? Does that mean you can’t wear the cap outside the pool? Does that mean you can swim in the pool without a cap? Does that mean if you pretend to have a cap on, you can swim in the pool? Does that mean once you get in the pool, you can take the cap off? Does that mean if you put a cap on in the parking lot, you can take it off before you get in the pool?

-Or -

Does that mean you can’t go in the pool until you have a cap on?

Are you or have you ever been born again?

I have been quite candid with you. There was a time when I would have joyfully answered, “Oh yes!†Now I know better. One is not born again because one wants to be God’s child or escape the fires of hell. It is God’s decision to bring you into his family by rebirth, not yours. If you obey and follow Christ and commit your entire life to him, he promises to do this, but when he does it is entirely up to his will, not yours. You can’t demand it or assume it has been done because your pastor told you so. The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

As I told you, if I were, I wouldn’t tell you and at this point in time, you still have not inspired me to do so. I have no desire to be dissected spiritually for your entertainment.

If you do not know what being born again entails, how can you say that this is not what being born again is?

It’s like being pregnant. You may know all the facts about how it occurs, but can you know when your wife is expecting until a test has been done or evidence occurs that you can identify as a pregnancy? Does pregnancy ensure a live birth? Do you actually have a child before a child is born? Yes, no and maybe.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. After you surrender your will to God's will, and that that surrender is a complete, sincere, and total commitment, then God MIGHT cause you to be born of the Spirit. Is there any assurance of being born again? Is the action of being born of the Spirit occur after one surrenders one's will, and makes a complete, sincere, and total commitment to God? After you offer your services and do God's will to the best of your ability, does God then birth you into His family by the Spirit?

Great. This is a chance to test your reading skills. I just answered this above. See if you can find and then repeat my answer. You don’t have to agree with it, but it would be nice to know you understand it before you assume I‘m wrong.

Is it proudful to claim being a child of God, a born again believer?

If it is not true, it’s not only proudful but prideful, presumptuous, and self-deceiving. If you delude yourself into believing you are born again, when you are not, you may base your salvation on false feelings and doctrines and keep that deception going and never learn the truth that will save your soul.

Does one join in serving Christ before being born of the Spirit? At what point is one born of the Spirit? In using this analogy, when is the enlistment up with Christ when one enters His service?

In this analogy, one enters boot camp by enlisting but one does not become a ‘regular’ until they complete the training satisfactorily. Your enlistment is a life time commitment. Your retirement is waiting for you in heaven.

It is interesting that you understand that believers are bought with a price. What does the following Scripture mean to you?
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12-14

You seem to like the GI Joe illustration. When you enlist, after you are convinced by the recruiter, you are sealed into the Army with the signing of your enlistment papers. These papers guarantee your commitment of your service in the Army and their guarantee that they are going to feed, clothe, train and pay you for the duration of your hitch. There may be other promises that you are guaranteed as well, like college or retirement and other benefits. You can’t enlist, then desert to Canada and return at age 60 to collect the retirement the Army promised you.

:roll: