Bible Study Only the children will go in--Numbers 14:31

[Jethro Bodine]

After the spies returned from spying out the Promised Land, ten of them convinced the Israelites not to go up and take the Land because the people living there were too big and strong for them to conquer. As punishment for their disobedience and lack of faith none of the numbered fighting men, those aged 20 or more, were allowed to ever enter the Land. Only their children would inherit the Land:

26 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How long will this wicked community grumble against me? I have heard the complaints of these grumbling Israelites. 28 So tell them, ‘As surely as I live, declares theLord, I will do to you the very thing I heard you say: 29 In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your bodies will fall in this wilderness." (Numbers 14:26-32 NIV)

Let's talk about how the principle of the fighting man not being allowed to enter into the promised blessings of God applies to the church.

 

[Eugene]

.
May I first ask what your thoughts are of those rejected from entering Canaan?
Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?
Do you think Christians of like faith as the elders of Israel are denied entrance into heaven?
Thanks.
.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

.
May I first ask what your thoughts are of those rejected from entering Canaan?
Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?
Do you think Christians of like faith as the elders of Israel are denied entrance into heaven?
Thanks.
.

That's a confusing statement.
I don't follow you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?

Ultimately, yes.
Though primarily about the Sabbath, Hebrews 4 speaks of God's rest being a picture of our heavenly rest to come. Like the Sabbath, the Promised Land was a rest for the people of God (Deuteronomy 12:10). But I don't think God is illustrating a loss of justification/salvation in Numbers 14. I think the intent is to illustrate how disobedience to overcome the enemy will keep you out of the promised blessings reserved for the people of God.

Do you think Christians of like faith as the elders of Israel are denied entrance into heaven?

No, not categorically. But I do think we have to wonder about an elder's relationship with God who discourages the people of God from going up and taking God's blessings telling them that the sin and the powers of darkness that keeps them from it is too big to be overcome. That's a direct contradiction to what God says. The elder who does that will certainly not be enjoying the fruit of the Land. And depending on the reason for his ungodly counsel, may be lost and will never enter into the kingdom.

 

[Eugene]

That's a confusing statement.
I don't follow you.

Brother Rollo, I was requesting what Jethro Bodine thought the type shown by the elders of Israel not being allowed into Canaan applied to the Church by his following question. In other words does he think certain ones of the church are denied entrance into heaven? Thanks.

Let's talk about how the principle of the fighting man not being allowed to enter into the promised blessings of God applies to the church.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Brother Jethro Bodine. I asked "Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?", and your reply was "Ultimately, yes."
I personally do not believe that. When we enter heaven the battle is over; there'll be no more war as on hymn puts it. In fact Jesus won that conflict for us as the following You tube Hymn "It is finished", but the inheritance we strive for is won in this present time as we take our place with Christ in our Spiritual walk. We don't get any more saved, but attaining into all God wants for us as His perfect will is sure at stake. E.g., In this following scripture there are three classes of believers implied according to their growth.
1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. To me, this present time is our Canaan as it were.

 

[JLB]

After the spies returned from spying out the Promised Land, ten of them convinced the Israelites not to go up and take the Land because the people living there were too big and strong for them to conquer. As punishment for their disobedience and lack of faith none of the numbered fighting men, those aged 20 or more, were allowed to ever enter the Land. Only their children would inherit the Land:

26 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How long will this wicked community grumble against me? I have heard the complaints of these grumbling Israelites. 28 So tell them, ‘As surely as I live, declares theLord, I will do to you the very thing I heard you say: 29 In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your bodies will fall in this wilderness." (Numbers 14:26-32 NIV)

Let's talk about how the principle of the fighting man not being allowed to enter into the promised blessings of God applies to the church.

Except for: Joshua and Caleb.

Yes. Great subject.

They didn't want to fight because they didn't believe.... Therefore they disobeyed.

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:16-18

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hi Brother Jethro Bodine. I asked "Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?", and your reply was "Ultimately, yes."
I personally do not believe that. When we enter heaven the battle is over; there'll be no more war as on hymn puts it. In fact Jesus won that conflict for us as the following You tube Hymn "It is finished", but the inheritance we strive for is won in this present time as we take our place with Christ in our Spiritual walk. We don't get any more saved, but attaining into all God wants for us as His perfect will is sure at stake. E.g., In this following scripture there are three classes of believers implied according to their growth.
1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. To me, this present time is our Canaan as it were.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by 'ultimately yes'. I think the Promised Land represents both, the blessings of this life, and the kingdom to come. And that, actually, Numbers 14 illustrates both, but I think we as believers are to primarily take away from the account what happened to those warriors who were not immediately destroyed as punishment for not believing God that they could take the land. Those remaining warriors who were not destroyed immediately died in the desert along the way to the place of blessing.

And so it is with us. That 'man' within us that resists the command of God to boldly enter into the blessed abundance of the people of God (love, joy, peace, patience, etc) is doomed to die outside of that promised rest and abundance. He can NEVER inherit those blessings. And until he does die we will wander the desert with him. You can't be filled with the fruit of the Spirit while you are living in faithless resistance to God's will to enter into the abundance of that fruit. That makes perfect sense. That faithless disobedient part of us has to die before we can enter in. And God knows how long that faithless part of us has to wander the desert before he can die.

 

[JLB]

I personally do not believe that. When we enter heaven the battle is over;

You will have to convince the whole multitude of saints that have gone to heaven, and are adorned in fine white linen, who will come back with Jesus as the Army of the living God.

And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Revelation 19:14


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Except for: Joshua and Caleb.

Yes. Great subject.

They didn't want to fight because they didn't believe.... Therefore they disobeyed.

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:16-18

JLB

Good. You quoted the most important part of the 'rest' described in Hebrews.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This thread is actually a spin-off from a post in another thread (WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.). It's about the children who inherit the land. Like the Israelites, until we become converted and become like little children we can not enter into the kingdom of God:

"“Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3 NASB)

The desert experience of the called out one's of God was a conversion from disobedient, faithless, whiny wimps to the blessed children who enter into and enjoy the Land.

 

[ezrider]

Matthew 18:1-4
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I think the point Jesus is making in this passage calls our attention to the humility of the child as opposed to the actual age.

I can't help but think of King David. Knowing his story from the scriptures and all that transpired, from Saul, to his children rebellion and so on, I have to ask myself a question: Through all of his life experiences, do you think David would have held the same faith in his heart as an adult that he did as a child when he slew Goliath? Or would his responsibilities and duties to his family or to the nation as king cause him to take a bit more measured approach?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think the point Jesus is making in this passage calls our attention to the humility of the child as opposed to the actual age.

Without a doubt, IMO.

As a natural illustration, there is no person who best exemplifies joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, and so on than a child. And until we become as such we will not enter into the promised rest and abundance of God. Instead God has ordained that we will wander desert places until we do become as such.

 

[Eugene]

You will have to convince the whole multitude of saints that have gone to heaven, and are adorned in fine white linen, who will come back with Jesus as the Army of the living God.

And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Revelation 19:14
JLB

I have no idea what you think you need to do as the army of God in heaven.

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

2 Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.

2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.

1 Sa 14:20 And Saul and all the people that were with him assembled themselves, and they came to the battle: and, behold, every man's sword was against his fellow, and there was a very great discomfiture.

 

[Eugene]

.
Jethro Bodine, what happened to those not allowed to go into Canaan?
I know they died; did they go to heaven in your opinion?
What blessing were they denied?
.

 

[JCitoL]

After the spies returned from spying out the Promised Land, ten of them convinced the Israelites not to go up and take the Land because the people living there were too big and strong for them to conquer. As punishment for their disobedience and lack of faith none of the numbered fighting men, those aged 20 or more, were allowed to ever enter the Land. Only their children would inherit the Land:

26 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How long will this wicked community grumble against me? I have heard the complaints of these grumbling Israelites. 28 So tell them, ‘As surely as I live, declares theLord, I will do to you the very thing I heard you say: 29 In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your bodies will fall in this wilderness." (Numbers 14:26-32 NIV)

Let's talk about how the principle of the fighting man not being allowed to enter into the promised blessings of God applies to the church.

the matter at hand is the nature of some adult worshipers under sin, namely the tendency of some worshipers to be inordinate in (the) faith, or as St Paul says:

1 Timothy 5:11-16 "refuse younger widows, for when they have grown wanton against Christ, they desire to marry; having condemnation, because they have rejected their first pledge. Besides, they also learn to be idle, going about from house to house. Not only idle, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not. I desire therefore that the younger widows marry, bear children, rule the household, and give no occasion to the adversary for insulting. For already some have turned aside after Satan. If any man or woman who believes has widows, let them relieve them, and don't let the assembly be burdened; that it might relieve those who are widows indeed."

the "widows" are (as it were) the weak or fallen believers/worshipers either of male or female gender, i.e. that for some reason(s) stumble or fall in the faith, for example some "widows" had turned out to go/pass through wrong direction/path of faith, e.g. there were even christians who subsequently followed krishna, buddha or another false christ thus deviating/straying from the faith of(the "marriage" with) Jesus(Hosea 2:19-20), so they (as it were) "remarried" to another(false) christ

2 Corinthians 11:2-7 "I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy. For I married you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if you receive a different spirit, which you did not receive, or a different "good news", which you did not accept, you put up with that well enough. For I reckon that I am not at all behind the very best apostles. But though I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not unskilled in knowledge. No, in every way we have been revealed to you in all things."

others turned out to face (as it were) stumbling block(s), for example some worshipers turned out somehow or someway to be under curse (sometimes for a long time) so that (as though) some of them constantly needed someone to encourage and help them in the faith, and in many cases such a problem turned out to be (also) in the "church(es)" of which they were dedicated/devoted followers and which they attended, etc...

Blessings

 

[ezrider]

.
May I first ask what your thoughts are of those rejected from entering Canaan?
Do you think Canaan represents heaven to the believer?
Do you think Christians of like faith as the elders of Israel are denied entrance into heaven?
Thanks.
.

Ultimately, yes.
Though primarily about the Sabbath, Hebrews 4 speaks of God's rest being a picture of our heavenly rest to come. Like the Sabbath, the Promised Land was a rest for the people of God (Deuteronomy 12:10). But I don't think God is illustrating a loss of justification/salvation in Numbers 14. I think the intent is to illustrate how disobedience to overcome the enemy will keep you out of the promised blessings reserved for the people of God.

Canaan as the Promised Land. Does is represent Heaven? I guess if your entire focus of Heaven is a destination. But we are not just talking about entering into some destination. We are talking about a Kingdom. Entering a Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven. While the children of Israel first came into the desert the were led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. Then came the tabernacle and the Arc of the Covenant while they wandered in the wilderness. Thus the Lord was present with them as they wandered in the wilderness and they were already subject to the Kingdom of Heaven before they ever reached the Promised Land.

 

[ezrider]

Moses did not enter the Promised Land.

But Moses spoke with The Lord. Who then could say that Moses did not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[reba]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[JLB]

.
Jethro Bodine, what happened to those not allowed to go into Canaan?
I know they died; did they go to heaven in your opinion?
What blessing were they denied?
.

Since you directed your question to Jethro, I will not answer for him.


However I will post some New Testament scriptures that concern this subject, so that all are "rightly dividing the word of truth", from a Christian perspective.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
1 Corinthians 10:1-11



JLB