Bible Study Only the children will go in--Numbers 14:31

[ezrider]

Let's talk about how the principle of the fighting man not being allowed to enter into the promised blessings of God applies to the church.

As it applies toward the church, it would seem to me that a "fighting man" or "man of war" is contrary to that which Christ has called us to. Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers, and the Lord has commanded that we beat our swords into plowshares.


Micah 4:1-4
But in the last days it shall come to pass,
that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains,
and it shall be exalted above the hills;
and people shall flow unto it.
And many nations shall come, and say,
Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
and to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for the law shall go forth of Zion,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among many people,
and rebuke strong nations afar off;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up a sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.
But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree;
and none shall make them afraid:
for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.


Psalm 133
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
for brethren to dwell together in unity!
It is like the precious ointment upon the head,
that ran down upon the beard,
even Aaron's beard:that went down to the skirts of his garments;
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion:
for there the Lord commanded the blessing,
even life for evermore.


Matthew 5:3-12
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness:for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness 'sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[ezrider]

I think there are many similarities to be drawn between the children of Israel and the church wandering in the wilderness, but there are also some stark contrast between the two that should not be ignored.

The children of Israel were delivered from the House of Bondage in Egypt, where they were brought into the wilderness to receive the Law, and they wandered there in the wilderness, demonstrating their obedience before they could enter into the promise land.

The Children of God and the Church on the other hand first received the Law as it went forth from Zion and Jerusalem, the Law of Christ as it was given from within the promised land. With the new, being delivered and redeemed from the Bondage of the Law that was given unto Moses while in the wilderness, the Church is then sent forth into the wilderness to demonstrate their faith while waiting upon better promises.


Interestingly enough, the ministry of John the Baptist began in the wilderness to those who received the Law of Moses as it was given in the wilderness. Jesus also being tempted 40 days in the wilderness.

Mathew 3:1-2
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Chopper]

And so Brother Chopper, are you saying that Moses will not be in the New Jerusalem?
.

Not at all. If all disobedient Christians were barred from entering the New Jerusalem, only Jesus would be there.

 

[JLB]

Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers,

Sometimes in order for there to be peace, the ones who are disrupting the peace have to be driven away, or be killed.

ISIS would be a good example of that.

Criminals are another example of that.

What husband or father would allow his family to be murdered or raped or beaten by those who are intent on stealing through home invasion.

But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

Not at all. If all disobedient Christians were barred from entering the New Jerusalem, only Jesus would be there.

We must rightly divide what the word says about this subject, rather than make a blanket statement that is obscure.

If by disobedient, you mean not perfect, then Yes, I agree.

If you mean by disobedient, turning to homosexuality, or Idolatry, then they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8


JLB

 

[Chopper]

JLB. Here's the definition of "disobedience" from Webster.
Simple Definition of disobedience
: refusal or failure to obey rules, laws, etc. : a lack of obedience
This characterizes the Nation of Israel from coming out of Egypt until today. It is my belief that the word "disobedient" is perfectly acceptable in my reference to those who will not enter YHWH' rest. There are a few other terms that God used to characterize Israel and the one that sticks in my mind is "stiff-necked" .

 

[Sinthesis]

Isa 46:13 - I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and mysalvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Isa 45:4 - For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa 19:25 - Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

[Sinthesis]

1Co 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[JLB]

JLB. Here's the definition of "disobedience" from Webster.
Simple Definition of disobedience
: refusal or failure to obey rules, laws, etc. : a lack of obedience
This characterizes the Nation of Israel from coming out of Egypt until today. It is my belief that the word "disobedient" is perfectly acceptable in my reference to those who will not enter YHWH' rest. There are a few other terms that God used to characterize Israel and the one that sticks in my mind is "stiff-necked" .

Yes sir, I agree with your definition of disobedience.

My only point was to contrast the disobedience of the children of Israel, whose bodies fell in the wilderness, as described in 1 Corinthians 10, with that of Moses, who was described as the most humble man in the world, who obeyed the Voice of the Lord.

Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth. Numbers 12:3

Moses, along with the children of Israel, did not enter the promised land, because of disobedience.

To me, Moses "made a mistake", when he struck the Rock twice, instead of speaking to it, [being less than perfect], whereas the children of Israel seemed to be a stiff neck and stubborn bunch, from the day they left Egypt, until their bodies fell in the wilderness.

7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him.

10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.

12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.” Numbers 20:7-12


Drawing a distinction between these two examples of "disobedience" was my only point.


Thanks for your input, I respect your insight and wisdom concerning these matters.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Act 9:1 ¶ And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:2 - And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Act 9:3 - And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 - And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 - And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.​

The two strikes of the rock prefigure both the crucifixion of Jesus and the persecution of His apostles by those who sat in Moses' seat. For this offense Temple Judaism is no more.

 

[Chopper]

Yes sir, I agree with your definition of disobedience.

My only point was to contrast the disobedience of the children of Israel, whose bodies fell in the wilderness, as described in 1 Corinthians 10, with that of Moses, who was described as the most humble man in the world, who obeyed the Voice of the Lord.

Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth. Numbers 12:3

Moses, along with the children of Israel, did not enter the promised land, because of disobedience.

To me, Moses "made a mistake", when he struck the Rock twice, instead of speaking to it, [being less than perfect], whereas the children of Israel seemed to be a stiff neck and stubborn bunch, from the day they left Egypt, until their bodies fell in the wilderness.

7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him.

10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.

12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.” Numbers 20:7-12


Drawing a distinction between these two examples of "disobedience" was my only point.


Thanks for your input, I respect your insight and wisdom concerning these matters.


JLB

Thank you for your reply JLB. Boy, that word disobedient. I'm still a student of the Old Testament. My morning Bible studies involve three or four chapters in the Old Testament & one chapter in the New Testament. The Old Testament is especially interesting to me now that I'm drawing closer to the wonderful event of my going Home. Since it won't be all that long until I'm in the presence of the Almighty, I feel like I want to know more about His personal views on what He likes and dislikes. I hope that makes sense to you.

I'm at Exodus 30 right now and studying the priesthood. Also, Hebrews and seeing how Jesus is our High Priest. Funny how sometimes our studies cover the same subject....It's still hard to believe that Israel was so disobedient to the God Who poured so much favor on them and they so soon forgot and went after false gods. Stiff-necked? Well I guess so! But then I look at my own sins and realize how rotten I am to sin against this Christ Who died in my place.

 

[JLB]

The two strikes of the rock prefigure both the crucifixion of Jesus and the persecution of His apostles by those who sat in Moses' seat. For this offense Temple Judaism is no more.

The two strikes of the Rock prefigures nothing.

The imagery was distorted, as God told Moses to "speak to the Rock", not strike the Rock.

This incident was called rebellion by God, as was not to be "seen" as a shadow or type of anything.

14 For in the Wilderness of Zin, during the strife of the congregation, you rebelled against My command to hallow Me at the waters before their eyes.” (These are the waters of Meribah, at Kadesh in the Wilderness of Zin.) Numbers 27:14


JLB

 

[JLB]

I hope that makes sense to you.

Yes sir.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

The two strikes of the Rock prefigures nothing.

The imagery was distorted, as God told Moses to "speak to the Rock", not strike the Rock.

This incident was called rebellion by God, as was not to be "seen" as a shadow or type of anything.

14 For in the Wilderness of Zin, during the strife of the congregation, you rebelled against My command to hallow Me at the waters before their eyes.” (These are the waters of Meribah, at Kadesh in the Wilderness of Zin.) Numbers 27:14


JLB

It's too bad you can't see the analogy.

Jhn 4:14 - But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Moses being cut off from the land is a picture of Christ who was cut off from the land because of our sin:

"25 Let me go over and see the good land beyond the Jordan—that fine hill country and Lebanon.
26 But because of you the Lord was angry with me and would not listen to me." (Deuteronomy 3:25-26 NIV)

"21 The Lord was angry with me because of you..." (Deuteronomy 4:21 NIV)

As Moses did not enter in because of the faithless whining of the people of God, so it is because of our sin that Christ was cut off while we whiny babies enter in.

"for the transgression of my people he was punished." (Isaiah 53:8 NIV)
"he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:12 NIV)

 

[Eugene]

Moses being cut off from the land is a picture of Christ who was cut off from the land because of our sin:

Dear Brother Jethro Bodine, don't you think that's a bit of a stretch to compare Jesus with Moses' act of unbelief?
Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

.

 

[JLB]

It's too bad you can't see the analogy.

Jhn 4:14 - But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

It's too bad there is no "alternative" analogy.

The type God intended to portray is the obedience of His Son to do what the Father "spoke" to Him to do, which would produce the outpouring of the Spirit of Christ.

Striking with a rod is something a Father does to correct a disobedient child.

Christ was obedient in all things, even death on the cross.

And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8

and again

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19


Through Christ's obedience we who believe are partakers of His righteousness by drinking His Spirit, which is the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Dear Brother Jethro Bodine, don't you think that's a bit of a stretch to compare Jesus with Moses' act of unbelief?
Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

.

If Adam can be a type of Christ (Romans 5 something) then surely Moses could be too.

Obviously, Jesus had no sin of his own for him to be cut off, but he was certainly cut off "because of you" and me.

Moses:
"21 The Lord was angry with me because of you..." (Deuteronomy 4:21 NIV)

Jesus:
"he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished." (Isaiah 53:8 NIV)

 

[JLB]

If Adam can be a type of Christ (Romans 5 something) then surely Moses could be too.

Moses was definitely a type of Christ, being a prophet, and foretelling of Christ, who was the prophet to come like Moses.

22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ Acts 3:22-23

and again

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4



JLB

 

[Chopper]

Moses being cut off from the land is a picture of Christ who was cut off from the land because of our sin:

"25 Let me go over and see the good land beyond the Jordan—that fine hill country and Lebanon.
26 But because of you the Lord was angry with me and would not listen to me." (Deuteronomy 3:25-26 NIV)

"21 The Lord was angry with me because of you..." (Deuteronomy 4:21 NIV)

As Moses did not enter in because of the faithless whining of the people of God, so it is because of our sin that Christ was cut off while we whiny babies enter in.

"for the transgression of my people he was punished." (Isaiah 53:8 NIV)
"he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:12 NIV)

I see what you're saying Jethro. I have often wondered what Jesus', the Messiah, life on earth would have been like if He hadn't died at such an early age. Obviously He had to come to earth, but if Israel hadn't rebelled against God and spread the Gospel to all Gentiles, hmmm.